Our Best XI

[eez-eh]

I’d completely forgotten about Paterson - given our other striking options he’s probably in with a shout whenever he’s over his injury.

[forameus]

1 hour ago, Gordopolis said:

The best - or at least most convincing - performances over the last 2 years have been 3-0 away to Lithuania and 4-0 away to Albania.

Got to look at the shape (4231?) and personnel (e.g. Armstrong started both, I think) in those two fixtures and see if there's something we can apply again.

Not a silver bullet of course, and possibly coincidence (maybe Albania and Lithuania were just totally honking), but surely something t build from.

To be fair, if we upgrade our performances to absolutely bodying teams worse than us, that's an improvement.  I'm not sure there's really any plan, let alone a different plan for facing big and wee teams.  

[Jeremiah Cole]

Marshall

Tierney
McKenna
Cooper
Robertson

McGinn
McTominay

Forrest
Paterson
Fraser

McBurnie

[skippy2015]

You are just basing that on who he plays for nothing else.

He has shown nothing to indicate he should be a regular based on his performances in a Scotland shirt so far.

In the last 2 games mctominay was one of our better players and out performed McGinn and McGregor It’s obvious he’s going to be the new fall guy in the national team like Darren fletcher, Brian McClair and Gary mcailistair. The amount of people I still debate with that Darren fletcher was good for scotland and they say he done nothing then we establish they never went to any games seen him live and base their judgement on 20 mins of sport scene highlights.

I doubt people who criticise mctominay actually watch full games as you can see his touch, technique , movement and passing is of a higher standard than the rest of the team.

I was listening sportsound the other night and fans claiming Ryan jack was better lol. If Manchester United wanted to buy McGregor or Ryan Jack they simply would the fact is mcTominays better.

[Gordopolis]

Griffiths not even getting off the bench Vs Hamilton today with young Édouard starting and Bayo getting the call to replace him. Griff is 30 next year and is in a questionable place right now. People hoping he'll be back to save us are going to be disappointed.

 

 

[DA Baracus]

Think we need to drop this 4-2-3-1 formation.

In theory it's good and has worked for us before, but now I feel it stalls us. It doesn't really protect our defence as it bunches two guys together meaning a single pass can take two guys out. It also means that if they don't push up then the defence behind them won't. Also who is the one responsible for dropping to take the ball from the defence to play it on? Worst of all is that it's too defensive and disadvantages us in attack, which is especially harmful if we defend so often and want to hit on the break. An extra man further forward would help us on the break.

Formations are fluid, or are at least supposed to be, so we shouldn't get so hung up when certain formations can allow different deployment depending on what we want to do in certain stages of the game, as well as having the players capable of changing the formation during the game, which is why we should pick guys who can adapt.

Anyway, if everyone is fit and available for selection, I'd go;

4-1-4-1

Marshall

Tierney McKenna Souttar Robertson

McLean

Forrest McGinn Armstrong Fraser 

Christie

Griffiths

Or:

3-5-2

Marshall

Tierney McKenna Souttar

Fraser McLean McGinn Armstrong Robertson

Griffiths

 

 

We desperately need strikers coming through. As mentioned Griffiths is getting on a bit. Naismith and Russell aren't our future and McBurnie and Phillips won't cut it.

Edited September 14, 2019 by DA Baracus

[Marshmallo]

You've for 12 players in that first team. Not sure how that would massively differ from the set up you're saying we need to move away from either, given it'd still be 3 in the middle with two wide players. They're both variations of 5 in midfield.

[RandomGuy.]

I've no idea, anymore. We've no decent centre backs, no right backs, and no strikers. Hard to build a decent team there.

McKenna looks the only young CB who has any real chance of being good enough (Findlay, Kerr, Souttar, Halkett) all look nothing more than Scottish top flight level, and as O'Donnell shows, you need to be more than that.

Right back theres nothing beyond playing Tierney there. O'Donnell clearly isnt up to it, Palmer would just be another half arsed recruit who isnt much better, and Paterson is never a full back.

McBurnie seems to be a poacher and nothing else, so we'll never see the best of a player like that, Griffiths is done.

That's all before you look at the complete lack of young keepers coming in to replace Marshall/McGregor/Gordon. Bain is shit, MacGillarvery (sp) is lower English dross who'll vanish to wherever Jordan Archer is now, and there seems to be nobody else looking capable.

In terms of current players, and moving forward over the next four years, I'd argue Robertson, Tierney, McKenna, McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Christie, Forrest and Fraser are the certainties, while everyone else is just varying degrees of getting past it, or not going to be up to it.

Edited September 15, 2019 by RandomGuy.

[Gordopolis]

I've no idea, anymore. We've no decent centre backs, no right backs, and no strikers. Hard to build a decent team there.
McKenna looks the only young CB who has any real chance of being good enough (Findlay, Kerr, Souttar, Halkett) all look nothing more than Scottish top flight level, and as O'Donnell shows, you need to be more than that.
Right back theres nothing beyond playing Tierney there. O'Donnell clearly isnt up to it, Palmer would just be another half arsed recruit who isnt much better, and Paterson is never a full back.
McBurnie seems to be a poacher and nothing else, so we'll never see the best of a player like that, Griffiths is done.
That's all before you look at the complete lack of young keepers coming in to replace Marshall/McGregor/Gordon. Bain is shit, MacGillarvery (sp) is lower English dross who'll vanish to wherever Jordan Archer is now, and there seems to be nobody else looking capable.
In terms of current players, and moving forward over the next four years, I'd argue Robertson, Tierney, McKenna, McTominay, McGinn, McGregor, Armstrong, Christie, Forrest and Fraser are the certainties, while everyone else is just varying degrees of getting past it, or not going to be up to it.

Pessimistic but understandably so.
Trying to be optimistic: Marshall *could* be around for another 3-4 years. Not ideal, but enough time for younger keepers to emerge. Is Robbie McCrorie any good? Over the last few years I've heard people saying he's going to be good, but he hasn't really pushed on at Rangers, tho I imagine the #1 jersey is McShaggers till he retires.
Defensively there is the young guy that signed for Bayern the other week. Midfield looks well covered but you've got the likes of Turnbull to throw into the mix soon and I think Middleton is going to be a cracking player.
Strikers? This area is troubling. Griff potentially washed-up, everyone else old, shit or not interested in playing for the NT. There are a few youngsters - Hornby and Aitchison - who might be decent but way too early to tell yet. McBurnie is at a good age and level, so we may just have to accept either playing to a system that gets the best out of him, or going false 9 (not for me, that one)

[RandomGuy.]

11 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

Pessimistic but understandably so.
Trying to be optimistic: Marshall *could* be around for another 3-4 years. Not ideal, but enough time for younger keepers to emerge. Is Robbie McCrorie any good? Over the last few years I've heard people saying he's going to be good, but he hasn't really pushed on at Rangers, tho I imagine the #1 jersey is McShaggers till he retires.
Defensively there is the young guy that signed for Bayern the other week. Midfield looks well covered but you've got the likes of Turnbull to throw into the mix soon and I think Middleton is going to be a cracking player.
Strikers? This area is troubling. Griff potentially washed-up, everyone else old, shit or not interested in playing for the NT. There are a few youngsters - Hornby and Aitchison - who might be decent but way too early to tell yet. McBurnie is at a good age and level, so we may just have to accept either playing to a system that gets the best out of him, or going false 9 (not for me, that one)

Robby McCrorie isn't good, no.

Liam Morrison is only 16.

Middleton is barely playing for a struggling Hibs side.

Hornby has been loaned to some mid-table Belgian side to play at the same dross level Watt was a few years ago. Aitchison is at Forest Green Rovers FFS.

Theres not a single player named who'll be breaking in and making an impact soon. The idea of those lot, and the likes of David Bates, being the future of the National side is just hilarious.

[Gordopolis]

Robby McCrorie isn't good, no.
Liam Morrison is only 16.
Middleton is barely playing for a struggling Hibs side.
Hornby has been loaned to some mid-table Belgian side to play at the same dross level Watt was a few years ago. Aitchison is at Forest Green Rovers FFS.
Theres not a single player named who'll be breaking in and making an impact soon. The idea of those lot, and the likes of David Bates, being the future of the National side is just hilarious.

But I'm talking about the next 3-4 years.
By then Liam Morrison might have made the first team at Bayern.
By then Jack Aitchison might will have fallen into the sink or swim category. He has been loaned out to toughen him up and get him closer to the Celtic first team.
Ditto Hornby re sink or swim. Hornby playing for a Belgian top flight club doesn't automatically mean he's going to turn out to be a waste of space like Watt just because Watt also played in that league.
Middleton has played in every Hibs game he has been fit for as far as I'm aware, and has been motm. He was also instrumental in turning the u21s game around the other night and has already played well and scored domestically and in Europe for rangers last season. All that for a 19 year old marks him in the 'promising' category for me, and I suspect that in 3-4 years he'll be a very good player and ready for Scotland before then. Turnbull too, as long as his op setback doesn't have any lasting side-effects.

Don't know why you felt the need to bring David Bates into it? Let's not conflate the two matters.

As I say I just detected pessimism from your earlier post, and am trying to shine an optimistic light on things.

[RandomGuy.]

9 minutes ago, Gordopolis said:

But I'm talking about the next 3-4 years.
By then Liam Morrison might have made the first team at Bayern.
By then Jack Aitchison might will have fallen into the sink or swim category. He has been loaned out to toughen him up and get him closer to the Celtic first team.
Ditto Hornby re sink or swim. Hornby playing for a Belgian top flight club doesn't automatically mean he's going to turn out to be a waste of space like Watt just because Watt also played in that league.
Middleton has played in every Hibs game he has been fit for as far as I'm aware, and has been motm. He was also instrumental in turning the u21s game around the other night and has already played well and scored domestically and in Europe for rangers last season. All that for a 19 year old marks him in the 'promising' category for me, and I suspect that in 3-4 years he'll be a very good player and ready for Scotland before then. Turnbull too, as long as his op setback doesn't have any lasting side-effects.

Don't know why you felt the need to bring David Bates into it? Let's not conflate the two matters.

As I say I just detected pessimism from your earlier post, and am trying to shine an optimistic light on things.

I'm calling it now that in four years Morrison will be back in British football, and not in a top flight, Hornby will be the same, and probably have four career goals to his name.

Middleton will be at a Doncaster seized club.

Aitchison will be in the lower Scottish tiers.

[accies1874]

Robby McCrorie isn't good, no.
Liam Morrison is only 16.
Middleton is barely playing for a struggling Hibs side.
Hornby has been loaned to some mid-table Belgian side to play at the same dross level Watt was a few years ago. Aitchison is at Forest Green Rovers FFS.
Theres not a single player named who'll be breaking in and making an impact soon. The idea of those lot, and the likes of David Bates, being the future of the National side is just hilarious.

To be fair, most of the best young guys are already playing for the first team. McKenna, Souttar, Tierney, McTominay, McBurnie are all fairly young and more the "future of the national team" than any of the U21s. There aren't many teenagers on the go, but we're hardly running out time on most of our players.

There's always the likelihood that a GK or RB appears out of nowhere, although that's not a great plan.

AFAIK Doohan, McGillivray and (Robby) McCrorie are all fairly well thought of at their respective clubs, but I haven't really seen any of them and fans aren't particularly reliable judges.

I was at the San Marino game a couple of weeks ago and the one thing that stood out to me was that even the U21s didn't have a right-back or striker playing for them.

[eez-eh]

21 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Think we need to drop this 4-2-3-1 formation.

We played 4-3-3/4-1-4-1 the last 2 games and got regularly ripped apart - which I think was in part due to 2 either side of McTominay getting dragged all over the place. Add to that when they got pushed back it completely dismantled any link between midfield and attack.

I think we look far better when we play a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-4-1-1. It restricts the sitting 2 far more in terms of positioning which to be honest I think we need to keep our shape. Then it gives you someone ahead of them who's a bit closer to the striker which should (in theory anyway) stop him from getting isolated up front.

[Falcor Roar]

4 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

I'm calling it now that in four years Morrison will be back in British football, and not in a top flight.

Is this based on anything? Have you seen him play or seen him interviewed before? 

Usually the most hyped players aren't the ones who make it to the top but if he's been picked up by Bayern then it gives us some hope that he's a genuine prospect. 

[RandomGuy.]

5 minutes ago, Falcor Roar said:

Is this based on anything? Have you seen him play or seen him interviewed before? 

Usually the most hyped players aren't the ones who make it to the top but if he's been picked up by Bayern then it gives us some hope that he's a genuine prospect. 

German clubs are buying up any young British player who looks anywhere near decent, and have been doing for years. Hes nothing more than a cheap punt for them, based on some decent performances for youth teams in Europe. Rich clubs in Europe sign about 20 of these type of players every Summer.

[Kuro]

59 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

German clubs are buying up any young British player who looks anywhere near decent, and have been doing for years. Hes nothing more than a cheap punt for them, based on some decent performances for youth teams in Europe. Rich clubs in Europe sign about 20 of these type of players every Summer.

Shut up.you total walloper, the fact Celtic wanted to.keep him and bayern fucking Munich topped.them is.a.massively encouraging sign for.his potential.  You're the ultimate bellend.

[RandomGuy.]

8 hours ago, Kuro said:

Shut up.you total walloper, the fact Celtic wanted to.keep him and bayern fucking Munich topped.them is.a.massively encouraging sign for.his potential.  You're the ultimate bellend.

Celtic fought to keep Calvin Miller in their youth team, and who was the last player to come through Bayerns youth side and make it?

It's a cheap gamble, to a similar degree, but a higher level, to when Swansea signed about six players from Falkirk.

[Marshmallo]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Celtic fought to keep Calvin Miller in their youth team, and who was the last player to come through Bayerns youth side and make it?

It's a cheap gamble, to a similar degree, but a higher level, to when Swansea signed about six players from Falkirk.

Jay Fulton starts every game for Swansea and has been getting good reviews this season. Stephen Kingsley went to Swansea, picked up a Scotland cap and now starts for Hull. 

Writing off the lad Morrison straight away is just as bad as people proclaiming him to be the second coming of Jesus because he's moved to the Abroad League.

[ZvonimirBoban]

Personally haven’t seen enough in Christie that merits a start for Scotland. I’d like to know when he has ever turned up in a big game for club or country. A decent enough player at home to bottom 6 teams but not an international player. IMO