Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[bendan]

7 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

It's no surprise to anyone that you're the one here believing China of all places . Yes they can enforce a stricter lockdown which in a country like China just means people dying in their houses and not being recorded for f**k all. Even if you do believe that only 80k contracted the virus their death to recovery rate on official figures is still clearly bullshit.

Nobody believes they only had 80k cases, but has the UK only had 50k? We're telling people not to even call if they have mild symptoms.

Their reported death rate in Wuhan was above 4% of reported cases, which is worse than Germany or the US, for example.

Edited April 8, 2020 by bendan

[vikingTON]

2 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

It's no surprise to anyone that you're the one here believing China of all places . Yes they can enforce a stricter lockdown which in a country like China just means people dying in their houses and not being recorded for f**k all. Even if you do believe that only 80k contracted the virus their death to recovery rate on official figures is still clearly bullshit.

‘A country like China’ = one that has recent experience of combatting serious airborne epidemics (H5N1 flu; SARS) and whose authorities learned important lessons as a result. As have most countries in the Asia-Pacific region, which is why none of them have made a rip-roaring c**t of it like the UK and US.

This is all extremely straightforward stuff that none of your tears and snorters can dispute.

[Shandon Par]

Deep in thought about the virus..

[AUFC90]

Nobody believes they only had 80k cases, but has the UK only had 50k? We're telling people not to even call if they have mild symptoms.
Their reported death rate in Wuhan was above 4% of reported cases, which is worse than Germany or the US, for example.

Of course the UK hasn't. But China has outright lied. It's not misreporting.

Almost all of Chinas cases have completed though. There's still piles of people in America and Britain just waiting to die.

[AUFC90]

‘A country like China’ = one that has recent experience of combatting serious airborne epidemics (H5N1 flu; SARS) and whose authorities learned important lessons as a result. As have most countries in the Asia-Pacific region, which is why none of them have made a rip-roaring c**t of it like the UK and US.
This is all extremely straightforward stuff that none of your tears and snorters can dispute.

China made a c**t of SARS as well. They're just lucky SARS wasn't as infectious. Fact is China downplayed the seriousness of this virus for a lot longer than they should have. No one is disputing that South Korea and Japan aren't better than America at pretty much everything. Im just saying China's figures a way off to anyone with half a brain.

[welshbairn]

13 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Could there be something in this -

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042937v1

Spain has had over 13000 deaths but Portugal only 340 - both on the same peninsula. Portugal has a full BCG vaccination programme, Spain doesn't.

The UK stopped mass BCG vaccinations in 2005

Maybe, but Germany stopped it in 1998. And you'd expect younger people who didn't get the vaccination to be more at risk.

[LongTimeLurker]

7 minutes ago, NewBornBairn said:

Could there be something in this -

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.24.20042937v1

Spain has had over 13000 deaths but Portugal only 340 - both on the same peninsula. Portugal has a full BCG vaccination programme, Spain doesn't.

The UK stopped mass BCG vaccinations in 2005

Remember that being an unusually painful injection and that it took weeks for the scar to fully heal, so hopefully it was worth going through. Think the problem with this theory is that the UK and France are getting to be as bad as Italy and Spain despite mandatory injections being in place until relatively recently. Some people are arguing that it's because a weaker BCG strain was used in most of western Europe. East vs West Germany is being mentioned a lot on that given the DDR used a Soviet strain and that part of Germany appears to be doing better on virus case numbers.

[greendot]

 

Ah Dr Elliot Reid! 

[vikingTON]

6 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

South Korea wasn't the epicentre of a highly contagious disease and is literally levels above the province of Hubei in absolutely everything.

 

ETA, and facts the only facts the WHO will have will be the ones China fed them.

Erm no, South Korea was one of the first countries outside China to experience an epidemic of local transmission, starting in some weirdo church group. Their containment measures in the weeks since have stopped the virus from galloping through the whole population (as the UK wanted to do until three weeks ago) and has resulted in a much lower death rate. The only person who thinks that China has a lower death total than ‘any developed country’ is yourself, largely because you don’t consider non-Western countries to be developed enough to handle an epidemic. 

[bendan]

1 minute ago, AUFC90 said:

Of course the UK hasn't. But China has outright lied. It's not misreporting.

Almost all of Chinas cases have completed though. There's still piles of people in America and Britain just waiting to die.

How would China know how many cases it actually had? There were no test kits in the beginning and a shortage for a long time.

I don't think anyone doubts a lot died outside hospitals, but that's exactly what a lot of people are saying has happened in Spain, and could well be happening here and in the US. 

[Guest JTS98]

7 minutes ago, virginton said:

It’s funny how nobody on the thread was bothering much to query their numbers during the peak of their outbreak;

China's numbers from the start of this whole episode have been bullshit, just as they were with SARS, and just like they pretend Tiananman Square didn't happen, just like how they routinely massage GDP figures.

We know that China's early count (the first 2-3 weeks) only included people with sever pneumonia, so no mild or asymptomatic cases will be included in that number. This means they were starting from a position of under-reporting, intentional or not, and they're now on their eighth method of defining countable cases. Applying later definitions to earlier weeks would surely produce a higher number.

Hong Kong's public broadcaster last week reported that hospitals in Wuhan have been refusing to test symptomatic potential cases. Japan's Kyodo media outlet reported Chinese doctors saying that hospitals were made to kick out quarantined patients still showing signs of pneumonia in the run up to Xi's visit. This has all become about presenting a war victory to the Chinese people.

China's Caixin magazine reported a source from China's own CDC saying it cannot be determined whether person to person transmission in Wuhan had been cut off and said there were still a few dozen symptomatic people every day.

The South China Morning Post reported that they had seen documents showing that 43,000 asymptomatic people in China had tested positive up to the end of February but were never included in China's count of 80,000. So, that would suggest a huge level of under-reporting if true. China only accepted asymptomatic cases as reportable less than a fortnight ago.

We all know you like to be a contrarian, but you're pishing into a wind of overwhelming evidence both from this event and from past behaviour by the CCP that all suggests China is not being honest with the rest of the world, or with itself. China is all about stability and targets. Truth doesn't come into the equation.

[AUFC90]

Erm no, South Korea was one of the first countries outside China to experience an epidemic of local transmission, starting in some weirdo church group. Their containment measures in the weeks since have stopped the virus from galloping through the whole population (as the UK wanted to do until three weeks ago) and has resulted in a much lower death rate. The only person who thinks that China has a lower death total than ‘any developed country’ is yourself, largely because you don’t consider non-Western countries to be developed enough to handle an epidemic. 

You seem really desperate to paint me as some white knight for the western powers whilst literally reading nothing that I've posted. Carry on.

[vikingTON]

3 minutes ago, AUFC90 said:

China made a c**t of SARS as well. They're just lucky SARS wasn't as infectious. Fact is China downplayed the seriousness of this virus for a lot longer than they should have. No one is disputing that South Korea and Japan aren't better than America at pretty much everything. Im just saying China's figures a way off to anyone with half a brain.

Every serious reporter has observed that China’s handling of coronavirus has been far more effective than SARS because lessons have been learned. Which is how it has managed to pretty much eliminate an outbreak of this more infectious disease in under four months, while Western countries still can’t pencil in a month for when their shan, halfway house shutdowns can be rolled back.

[hk blues]

39 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Ok, and what's the benefit to your average Indian geezer of spending on yachts, expensive paintings, apartments in New York, expensive jewellery, country houses etc?

It's not like the Indian 1% are nipping off down to the local corner restaurant and keeping their local economy going. As much as the trickle-down economics gang would love us all to believe it, that's just not how the wealthy spend their dosh.

Same as in the UK, they are minimising their tax and protecting their wealth for future generations of privilege.

OK, you've sussed the problem.

What's the solution? 

[AUFC90]

Every serious reporter has observed that China’s handling of coronavirus has been far more effective than SARS because lessons have been learned. Which is how it has managed to pretty much eliminate an outbreak of this more infectious disease in under four months, while Western countries still can’t pencil in a month for when their shan, halfway house shutdowns can be rolled back.

Every serious poster bairly observes a word you say so like I say....carry on.

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

China's numbers from the start of this whole episode have been bullshit, just as they were with SARS, and just like they pretend Tiananman Square didn't happen, just like how they routinely massage GDP figures.

We know that China's early count (the first 2-3 weeks) only included people with sever pneumonia, so no mild or asymptomatic cases will be included in that number. This means they were starting from a position of under-reporting, intentional or not, and they're now on their eighth method of defining countable cases. Applying later definitions to earlier weeks would surely produce a higher number.

Hong Kong's public broadcaster last week reported that hospitals in Wuhan have been refusing to test symptomatic potential cases. Japan's Kyodo media outlet reported Chinese doctors saying that hospitals were made to kick out quarantined patients still showing signs of pneumonia in the run up to Xi's visit. This has all become about presenting a war victory to the Chinese people.

China's Caixin magazine reported a source from China's own CDC saying it cannot be determined whether person to person transmission in Wuhan had been cut off and said there were still a few dozen symptomatic people every day.

The South China Morning Post reported that they had seen documents showing that 43,000 asymptomatic people in China had tested positive up to the end of February but were never included in China's count of 80,000. So, that would suggest a huge level of under-reporting if true. China only accepted asymptomatic cases as reportable less than a fortnight ago.

We all know you like to be a contrarian, but you're pishing into a wind of overwhelming evidence both from this event and from past behaviour by the CCP that all suggests China is not being honest with the rest of the world, or with itself. China is all about stability and targets. Truth doesn't come into the equation.

43,000 asymptomatic people excluded? What percentage of asymptomatic people are currently being included in the UK or the US’ figures, having had fully three months’ advance notice to secure sufficient testing equipment to accurately measure its progress? The answer is quite clearly ‘not that many’, given that the UK’s pointy-headed experts and their ‘models’ can’t determine whether one or fully fifty percent of the population has already been infected by the virus. Will look forward to the UK retrospectively adding 32 million cases to its figures though in due course.

Edited April 8, 2020 by vikingTON

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, hk blues said:

OK, you've sussed the problem.

What's the solution? 

It's dead simple, enforcement of taxation for all, regardless of wealth.

All that's required is political will, and that comes from the electorate. People need to stop believing that nothing can be done.

[renton]

9 minutes ago, virginton said:

Every serious reporter has observed that China’s handling of coronavirus has been far more effective than SARS because lessons have been learned. Which is how it has managed to pretty much eliminate an outbreak of this more infectious disease in under four months, while Western countries still can’t pencil in a month for when their shan, halfway house shutdowns can be rolled back.

So your all for being welded shut into your abode by the British Army then? 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

43,000 asymptomatic people excluded? What percentage of asymptomatic people are currently being included in the UK or the US’ current figures, having had fully three months’ advance notice to secure sufficient testing equipment to accurately measure its progress? The answer is quite clearly ‘not that many’, given that the UK’s pointy-headed experts and their ‘models’ can’t determine whether one or fully fifty percent of the population has already been infected by the virus. Will look forward to the UK retrospectively adding 32 million cases to its figures in due course.

You're arguing with a point I haven't made, in a startlingly on-brand response.

Of course the UK and America's responses have been shite. But China's has been shite and dishonest.

The UK has made a complete arse of it by not getting testing in order and giving out stupid public messages. But China is just lying about its numbers. There's simply no question about that.

 

[AUFC90]

You can be certain of one thing. A lot more people will have died in their flats, with no help, in Wuhan than in London when all this is over.

I'm sure the Chinese will be desperate to report some of their valued citizens.