Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Lex]

Scotland is going for the care homes first whereas I think BoJo is just going for everyone so they can do Eat Out To Help Out again and get another spike in cases and deaths.

Can’t we do the care homes and other people too? That’s what England are doing after all. This is a ridiculous failure by the Scottish Government.

[renton]

3 minutes ago, Lex said:

 

Can’t we do the care homes and other people too? That’s what England are doing after all. This is a ridiculous failure by the Scottish Government.

 

We could, indeed we are but with a different emphasis on how we move through the groups. So England are completing care homes at a slower rate but are using the spare capacity in their vaccination system to so more of the other groups. Since the other groups are logistically easier to vaccinate, more are done. Scotland is trying to get care homes ticked off as quickly as possible at the expense of a slower ramp up into the other groups.

Scotland's end point for getting through groups 1 through 4 are the same, I believe, as England.

Edited January 18, 2021 by renton

[s_dog]

6 hours ago, Steven W said:

England now to begin vaccinating the over 70s. And also 24hour vaccine pilot in London at the end of the month.

Some on here suggesting they're doing it all wrong.

I know Scotland's approach is to do the care homes first but I don't see why we can't do other priority groups concurrently. When a house builder builds a row of houses they don't wait to complete the first house before starting the second.

Will be an interesting couple of weeks comparing the two different approaches.

There's a few stories from people in England complaining that their elderly parents over 80, over 90 etc have not been contacted yet, so you can understand they're a bit concerned reading reports of them starting over 70's. But it really seems to be down to some areas of the country (North West) have been far quicker than others to get through their over 80's. No idea if it's also got anything to do with patchy supplies of the vaccine, but possibly that's a factor too, as we are seeing from some GP's in Scotland complaining about it. But we've still got a couple of weeks of January left, I'd only be concerned if we got to the end of the month and these people still hadn't heard anything.

In Scotland they're not finishing one group off before moving to the next. They started with the people doing the vaccinations, care home residents & staff, and frontline NHS staff, they are still doing them but then started over-80's in the community, other NHS staff, and frontline social care staff. Once the bulk of these people have been offered it, early in February they expect to start doing over 75's. 

[101]

17 minutes ago, Lex said:

Why aren’t we vaccinating at the same rate as England?

Assuming they are using UKG stats you are asking why Scotland hasn't vaccinated 50% of our population, as that's that the English numbers would mean for us. The answer we simply don't have the doses to do that.

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

We're too wee, too poor and too stupid.

[coprolite]

54 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

So say you have 20 care homes and 10 vaccination staff, 50-70 residents to be jagged in each, give each staff member one for the morning and one for the afternoon. Would be the same as having 10 staff in a vaccination centre doing morning and afternoon shift. Not really getting the perception of logistical issues around this. Slightly more inconvenient but not really a staggering undertaking surely?

70 residents in a morning or afternoon (3.5 hours) gives 3 minutes per jab. That sounds like barely enough time to get between rooms and change syringes. I’d expect some time taken to ensure that the right person is sitting there, check notes for allergies or other relevant factors ( likelihood of flipping out etc), then fill in forms and then change PPE and thoroughly clean hands and equipment. I’d guess you’re talking more like 10 mins per jab.

There will be a lot of homes with fewer than 50 residents as well.

[101]

4 minutes ago, Lex said:

Can’t we do the care homes and other people too? That’s what England are doing after all. This is a ridiculous failure by the Scottish Government.

 

I would imagine the care homes left to do are the smallest and most remote therefore they are resource heavy trailing round with a freezer full of the shots to every care home on the islands is something that England won't have to tackle once we are over that I hope we see rapid growth as smaller local hubs are set up to deliver the vaccine. England appear to be doing the care homes on a much slower time frame meaning they have keep staff and resources local to the major hubs. 

Deaths are most likely to occur in a care home, you would imagine, therefore doing all then will mean the death rate falls and hopefully its on the key metrics used to decide on restrictions. 

If we don't reach 500k by the start of Feb then questions have to be asked but we seem to be motoring along at an okay speed.

[Erih Shtrep]

You can bet your last penny Lex and Glen Minter would be raging if Scotland had vaccinated care homes at 1/2 the rate of England.  

[The Moonster]

13 minutes ago, Lex said:

 

Can’t we do the care homes and other people too? That’s what England are doing after all. This is a ridiculous failure by the Scottish Government.

 

You're a ridiculous failure.

[s_dog]

1 hour ago, Paco said:

Care homes are ‘almost done’ which will hopefully see resources opened up but that won’t help if GPs don’t have the vaccine!

In fact, there are an estimated 555k in Groups 1 & 2, expected to be done by the ‘start of February’. To me that’s Monday 1st Feb. We’ll need to see about 20k a day to get there. So that one is surely very doable.

The concerning one is Groups 3, 4 & 5. 880k in there, I think, to be done by the end of Feb. Even if we started today it’s 21k per day, in addition to the 20k or so a day needed to hit the first target.

It needs to rise and it needs to rise pretty quickly. In fairness to the SG their plans show an exponential growth in numbers starting next Monday. It’ll be needed!

I'm sure I read that they are aiming to to finish groups 1 & 2 by 7 Feb, although it keeps being said as the more vague "start of Feb". It's hard to see how they'll be then able to finish the next lot by just the end of Feb, can't see it happening. Though I presume they are going to start inviting people in all the groups 3, 4 & 5 to mass vaccinations as well as to local GP's. So far it's only staff that are attending 'mass' vaccinations and they'll need more of these available and quickly.

[Ira Gaines]

As if Lex or Glen give even the slightest f**k about this. If people dying helped the union's cause, they'd support it.

[superbigal]

The BBC news at lunch had some talk of the effects being seen by the end of February and then a return to tiers as they work their way through the various vulnerable groups until May.
Then a debate as to where to go next, possibly teachers and shop workers rather than by age.

The current problem is the NHS system has no knowledge of occupations of people.

You can see those on universal Credit being last if economics come into the younger groups.

[superbigal]

Can’t we do the care homes and other people too? That’s what England are doing after all. This is a ridiculous failure by the Scottish Government.

What is odd is that Scotland has large stockpiles of the vaccine Pfizer. But you continually see GP's claiming no visibility of supply probably cause there geared for AZ. Clusterfuck.

[RH33]

56 minutes ago, PWL said:

You better no be mocking are brave troops of the BRITISH Army, by the way. #kbf

Hero’s everyone of them! 

[s_dog]

1 hour ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

So say you have 20 care homes and 10 vaccination staff, 50-70 residents to be jagged in each, give each staff member one for the morning and one for the afternoon. Would be the same as having 10 staff in a vaccination centre doing morning and afternoon shift. Not really getting the perception of logistical issues around this. Slightly more inconvenient but not really a staggering undertaking surely?

Both care homes and GP's (and any other small places) are much more time consuming.

They have the logistical problems of the vaccine having to be broken down into smaller packs, safely delivered and stored at each of these locations (obviously more of an issue with Pfizer, which is what has been used most to start with, as that's what we've got first). 
Then there is the practicalities of a smaller space to use to vaccinate people, so only so many can be done at any one time. GP surgeries are also having to still carry on their usual work, plus appear to have limited supplies of vaccines so can only arrange so many appointments each week.

Care homes will be able to do all their residents in one day (unless of illness), but it's still not just a quick whizz round, there will be a bit of organising, residents probably brought individually into an area (don't forget they've got to be monitored by nurse afterwards). There will be bed bound residents, those with dementia that can possibly be a bit difficult to vaccinate etc.

It's only once they move onto the over 70s when they start inviting them to larger scale vaccination centres rather than just GP practices that they'll be able to get through them a lot quicker.

[s_dog]

33 minutes ago, coprolite said:

70 residents in a morning or afternoon (3.5 hours) gives 3 minutes per jab. That sounds like barely enough time to get between rooms and change syringes. I’d expect some time taken to ensure that the right person is sitting there, check notes for allergies or other relevant factors ( likelihood of flipping out etc), then fill in forms and then change PPE and thoroughly clean hands and equipment. I’d guess you’re talking more like 10 mins per jab.

There will be a lot of homes with fewer than 50 residents as well.

Only in nursing homes where there are some residents bedbound will they be giving them vaccines in their own rooms. They'll have an area or room set up and bring the residents to it. They've got to do all the checks and forms, cleaning & PPE etc like you say, but someone also needs to monitor the person who has just been vaccinated, so that all adds time. Not saying the same nurse giving the jag will be doing the monitoring & everything, but there is limited staff so it everything will add up.

I know of one over-80 who's already been to their GP practice for their jag. They'll all probably be doing it their own way, but in her case, there were 10 people in the surgery at the one time and all-in, from explaining the vaccine, possible side effects etc, checking their details and asking questions, getting the vaccine and then being monitored afterwards, it took 40 minutes.

Edited January 18, 2021 by s_dog

[realmadrid]

5 minutes ago, s_dog said:

 There will be bed bound residents, those with dementia that can possibly be a bit difficult to vaccinate etc.

I can imagine it could take around 30 minutes to try and vaccinate some of these more difficult cases, with the staff trying to reassure the elderly person, the person perhaps being difficult through no fault of their own but due to the condition they have.

Those giving the vaccine will just have to have a lot of patience.

It will of course be so much easier when we get to large scale vaccination centres with people who walk in , get checked in get the jab, are monitored and then leave.

[s_dog]

12 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

Those giving the vaccine will just have to have a lot of patience.

It will of course be so much easier when we get to large scale vaccination centres with people who walk in , get checked in get the jab, are monitored and then leave.

Exactly, so far they've being doing numbers in the hundreds at various hospitals, but it's only the Louisa Jordan that they're doing 'mass' vaccinations of a couple of thousand or so most days (5000 on Saturday was their first big mass vaccination attempt), and these are all NHS/Social care staff attending them so far.

[Glen Sannox]

37 minutes ago, Andre Drazen said:

As if Lex or Glen give even the slightest f**k about this. If people dying helped the union's cause, they'd support it.

I can’t speak for Lex, but I certainly do give a f**k about this. As for people dying to help a cause, have a look on the politics forum and you’ll see plenty of civic and joyous Nationalists wishing death on the elderly, Tories etc etc. 

They’re not very nice these Nats, are they?

 

[superbigal]

22 hours ago, superbigal said:

 

Daily review. Overall cases per 100K  for 7 days  peaked  at 301.9 for figures 29th Dec to 4th Jan

From 8th to 14th January we are at 222.5

Todays figure  for 9th Jan to15th Jan is 216.6   Another single Day drop of 2.65%  and a drop from the peak of 28.25%

What the Feck are Scotgov suggesting more restrictions tomorrow.  It is complete Chinese style propaganda now. Quickly losing my respect with their lack of honesty. 

Click cases by neighbourhood to see the spread on the geographical map

https://public.tableau.com/profile/phs.covid.19#!/vizhome/COVID-19DailyDashboard_15960160643010/Overview

We should be talking about the good guys in the East and North getting back to Tier 4 or even Tier 3.  Look at the shade of the country of where cases are over 240.  Or look at the top 3 who have regularly filled those spots.

Stranraer still looks like it needs eradicated from the planet.

NB The UK figure for same dates is 487.1 per 100K 

Glasgow City   338.3  to 334.5     The slow decline in the largest city no doubt not helping the rest of us. 

North Lanarkshire  323.7 to 328.7    

Renfrewshire   302.6 to 299.8  

North Ayrshire  281.3 to 285.0   

Dumfries & Galloway  285.5 to 267.4  Stranraer West & Stranraer South still both over 1000

Inverclyde  309.8 to 266.1    

Clackmannanshire 242.5 to 263.9

East Ayrshire  270.5 to 262.3

East Dunbartonshire    272.5 to 259.6

South Lanarkshire   262.1 to 255.5

West Dunbartonshire     253.0 to 242.9

Then onto the 1st North or East side of the Country appearance

Aberdeen City  241.0 to 241.0

South Ayrshire   225.6 to 230.0

Dundee City   242.4 to 225.0

Falkirk    225.6 to 223.8

East Renfrewshire  174.8 to 185.3 

Perth & Kinross  178.3 to 171.8  

Fife   180.4 to 168.4

Scottish  Borders    185.3 to 163.6

Angus  167.8 to 163.5

Highlands  163.3 to 146.7  Invergordon still over 1000

West Lothian  144.2 to 145.8

Aberdeenshire   148.9 to 144.3

 City Of Edinburgh   144.0 to 140.4

Stirling   148.6 to 138.0

Western Isles  97.3 to 108.5   Barra Data still rising 

East Lothian     100.8 to 108.3

Midlothian   104.9 to 103.8

Moray     108.5 to 90.8

Shetland Islands  82.9 to 82.9

Argyll & Bute    82.7 to 78.0

Orkney Island 18.0 to 13.5