Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[101]

9 minutes ago, Steven W said:

I'm beginning to think their stategy / policy is all over the shop to be honest.

I think it's showing signs of fatigue, understandable but should have been avoided, election will help as it will shake up the Government.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, Billy Jean King said:

3 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

Of course they won't "get their way"
But the SG will undoubtably use these findings to support their views that they have full public support for their strategy.

They cannot use "findings" lol of laymen on a Citizens Assembly to support anything. These assemblies have existed for years, they influence hee haw.

What's the point of them then?

[renton]

2 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

What's the point of them then?

To make people think they are being listened to.

[Elixir]

I do wonder at what stage it will be looked back on that torching society because of what the Chinese did, along with blind panic, was in fact the worst policy disaster of the 21st century. Rather than simply accepting there would be trade-offs, that some vulnerable people would unfortunately die, and following pandemic mitigation measures that had been in planning every year prior.

[ayrmad]

On 16/02/2021 at 13:55, Frankie S said:

So social distancing being rolled on well behind its sell-by date after not only the vulnerable but the whole adult population have been vaccinated will result in ‘big opportunities for entrepreneurs’ in the hospitality industry? I’ve heard it all now. No it f***ing won’t, it’ll completely decimate the industry, trashing the entire independent sectors in the pub, restaurant, events and live music industries, sending all but the behemoths like Weatherspoons to the wall.

I’m an entrepreneur in the aforementioned industries, and here’s what social distancing means to me - my live music venue in Edinburgh has a 200 capacity, this will be reduced to approx 28 max, depending on seating configurations determined by group size bookings. That might even be reduced further due to social distancing required amongst musicians necessitating a larger stage, and more than 2m social distancing being required between vocalists and brass instrument players due to greater droplet dispersion from those musicians. Our 90 capacity room downstairs might seat 16 socially distanced, if it’s lucky. My live music venue in Dumfries has a 350 capacity and could prob accommodate 60 socially distanced. So, I wonder what touring bands venues can afford to book on those capacities? None is the short answer. We could maybe put on a local pub band for free, if they agreed to get paid in beers.

Scale up and the Usher Hall in Edinburgh is a 2000 capacity venue and its socially-distanced capacity is approx 350. So The Usher Hall can now afford to put on bands that would normally play a small club venue, with hugely greater running costs. It just doesn’t work,  no matter how you try to present it as an ‘opportunity. ‘ An opportunity to lose huge piles of money and fold almost immediately without extensive government support. ‘Ah, but streaming’ people might say, as if charging for a virtual ticket for streamed content (when so much music is already available for free on the internet) is the panacea for all the industries’ ills. It’s not, and it never will be.

With social distancing you can file live music, festivals, and other large scale events in the bin, you can also forget the Edinburgh Festival and Fringe, other than a few stage-managed heavily-subsidised (mainly outdoor) PR events (which seems to be the plan this year). It’s just not going to happen, and the Fringe’s whole raison d’etre is to promote small scale independent venues and small scale events. Many pubs have function suites that rely on gigs, birthday parties, weddings and other social events. This vital source of revenue will be decimated by social  distancing, and the last thing pubs that have already been closed for most of the last 12 months need to survive as we get back to ‘normal’ is disappearing revenue streams.

As ever social distancing will have a disproportionately disastrous effect on smaller independent venues and pubs, and favour larger chains with larger premises. If you have barn-sized outlets like Wetherspoons, you might just survive, given most of the competition is going to go under with SD and you’re already bulk buying stock for your nationwide chain at next to nothing and enjoying vast economies of scale.

To get any return from a socially-distanced future, you’ll need cavernous aircraft hangar-style pubs or huge beer gardens, which by their nature are at a premium in city centres and attract far higher rates and commercial rents. The rates freezes won’t last forever, and while commercial rents will probably adjust downwards, city centre rents are hugely onerous and that allied to other overheads result in minimal margins for pubs and restaurants (most city centre hospitality outlets make their profit in the last 10% of their turnover, and that’s without social distancing).

I half-joked back in March 2020 that people would crawl out of their bunkers once this was all over to find in our dystopian not so brave new world that the only pubs left standing are ****ing Wetherspoons, but it’s no longer a joke, it’s an ever-increasing possibility.

Your venues will be some of the harder problems to overcome IF we've to live with SD going forward, my point about entrepreneurs was more about solutions to overcome SD. 

Drive by most hospitality venues and you'll see a few fans stuck to an outside wall, inside you'll likely see tables and chairs alongside some built in booths, currently most will have some forms of perspex dotted about, the fans and perspex are their to control and adjust the airflow in these venues, I'm just a layman but surely their must be the possibility of innovation creating a new way to control airflow whilst extracting and or neutralising any airborne nasties, having a booth that has no perspex separating it from the next one but rather an invisible pod created by a new system that keeps most of the crap from moving between different sections. 

The above, if possible, wouldn't eradicate Covid or similar in a venue but it would reduce it significantly. 

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, 101 said:

I think it's showing signs of fatigue, understandable but should have been avoided, election will help as it will shake up the Government.

I don't think it will shake up anything, as it's unlikely that there will be less SNP members, and the opposition have been no challenge to the strategy at all to date. Unlike down south, there does not appear to be any MSPs, and certainly not and representatives of the governing party, who disagree with the strategy.

You could say that is largely influenced by trying not to rock the boat and turn people off potentially voting for you, but at the same time there's little point in sitting on your hands at party level until after an election where you might pick up some swing voters who are looking for a different approach.

Other than the extremely unlikely scenario of a Conservative victory, I cannot see the SG elections making any difference to the covid strategy.

[Ron Aldo]

Whit, it's a citizens assembly ffs, they cannot and will not "get their way"

Folk really are starting to lose all perspective here within this echo chamber.

At no point in my post did I suggest their viewpoints would be given any sort of weight, hence the use of the word "IF".

I think you need to calm down a wee bit. It's not even lunch time.

[Todd_is_God]

2 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

The above, if possible, wouldn't eradicate Covid or similar in a venue but it would reduce it significantly. 

Following the completion of the vaccine programme, who cares?

[Michael W]

Given that the governing party is going to get a majority unless Murray Walker turns up and announces nothing can stop them now, not sure how the election will shake up the SG. 

Freeman will thankfully be gone, but other than that? Nada. 

[Steven W]

1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said:

I don't think it will shake up anything, as it's unlikely that there will be less SNP members, and the opposition have been no challenge to the strategy at all to date. Unlike down south, there does not appear to be any MSPs, and certainly not and representatives of the governing party, who disagree with the strategy..

I bet there is. There must be surely? I just don't think they're allowed to speak up

[ayrmad]

Just now, Todd_is_God said:

Following the completion of the vaccine programme, who cares?

That will be fine if you're the one making the decisions, have you been at the lectern yet? 

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, Elixir said:

I do wonder at what stage it will be looked back on that torching society because of what the Chinese did, along with blind panic, was in fact the worst policy disaster of the 21st century. Rather than simply accepting there would be trade-offs, that some vulnerable people would unfortunately die, and following pandemic mitigation measures that had been in planning every year prior.

Never. The Ferguson model is seen as gospel, and no one that matters is willing to be open to the prospect that the lockdowns etc had almost zero impact on the course of the pandemic.

[DiegoDiego]

Very much doubt any of the 19 were furloughed single parents trying to make ends meet on a % of the minimum wage.

Minimum wage gets a decent increase in April. Furlough lasts until at least the start of May, does it not? I imagine there'll be a fair chunk of folk who see their colleagues get a nice pay rise while their income remains the same.

[Steven W]

12 minutes ago, Rugster said:

You keep going on about the number of cases yesterday but are ignoring the low positivity rate which has already been mentioned. 5.1% 

Until such a time as NS decrees case numbers as irrelevant (which should happen at some stage), then case numbers on their own will still carry weight.

[Todd_is_God]

Just now, ayrmad said:

That will be fine if you're the one making the decisions, have you been at the lectern yet? 

Aye, i'm up tomorrow. My recommendations are that we find you a nice padded cell so you can be 100% safe.

[Detournement]

10 minutes ago, Elixir said:

 

I'd also suggest that the infection curve is why the UK and Scottish Governments are so determined to carry on with restrictions until July so they can be seen to be lowering rates rather than it being a natural season cycle. That's why Sturgeon is now determined to test non symptomatic people to maintain restrictions on the East coast where Covid will be a non factor in about 6 weeks. 

Then if it ticks up again in October/November we will be right back into necessary restrictions. 

Edited February 18, 2021 by Detournement

[101]

8 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I don't think it will shake up anything, as it's unlikely that there will be less SNP members, and the opposition have been no challenge to the strategy at all to date. Unlike down south, there does not appear to be any MSPs, and certainly not and representatives of the governing party, who disagree with the strategy.

You could say that is largely influenced by trying not to rock the boat and turn people off potentially voting for you, but at the same time there's little point in sitting on your hands at party level until after an election where you might pick up some swing voters who are looking for a different approach.

Other than the extremely unlikely scenario of a Conservative victory, I cannot see the SG elections making any difference to the covid strategy.

Sorry, I just meant the churn in members of the Government 5 senior members are out most notably the health sec so hopefully there are some people coming in that are a bit more fresh to this.

[Billy Jean King]

What's the point of them then?

They were an election pledge about 3 back. They are Holyroods equivalent of the community council. A box ticking exercise to let the do gooders and busy bodies within Society think they are getting heard. The reaction in here is massively OTT, it's the equivalent of a show of hands in a question time audience ffs.

If Devi or Leitch hadn't been involved it would have passed unnoticed. They really are inside some folks head 24/7. People seem to be actively seeking out their every utterance despite it reducing them to a slavering mess. They seem to be playing some folk like a fiddle. Just ignore them, why actively seek out the opinion of folk you disagree with, that seems like madness to me.

[Sergeant Wilson]

24 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Did Sandy Comarty off here not say he was part of the Citizens Assembly?

 

Dear fucking Lord!

[Billy Jean King]

At no point in my post did I suggest their viewpoints would be given any sort of weight, hence the use of the word "IF".

I think you need to calm down a wee bit. It's not even lunch time.

If very much suggests they might. You clearly were not ruling it out or you wouldn't have said if.