Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Burnieman]

The political will wouldn’t exist then either.  Enjoy your night.

No idea. My crystal ball is broken. Hopefully we have that dilemma in the future.

[madwullie]

Here's the imperial model for the coming year with varying levels of efficacy of vaccine. 

Not had a chance to read it (it's Saturday night ffs) and will no doubt understand about 20%, but I would presume that this, amongst other modelling, is the type of thing that is driving the pessimistic tone from various counties 

https://t.co/5AbLVzdYLx

Edit: just tried to read it. Going to have to wait for some qualified hot takes on it from people who know what they're talking about and can explain it, but it looks very glass half empty

Main players - take it away

Edited February 6, 2021 by madwullie

[Burnieman]

Scot gov are happy just to blame Westminster. If they wanted they could have said, if you are getting a flight you need to arrive 4 hours early with proof it's an essential journey and have police checking everyone entering the terminal and if it's not essential they get a fine and sent home, similarly they could say everyone arriving into a Scottish airport has to quarantine and make it illegal to come into Scotland unless essential and up the patrols. This would put off the vast majority of people chancing it.

Instead of doing this they decided it was easier and more popular to just blame the toaaaaarrrrriiieeesss.

Enjoy yer night.

[Erih Shtrep]

3 minutes ago, UsedToGoToCentralPark said:

Scot gov are happy just to blame Westminster. If they wanted they could have said, if you are getting a flight you need to arrive 4 hours early with proof it's an essential journey and have police checking everyone entering the terminal and if it's not essential they get a fine and sent home, similarly they could say everyone arriving into a Scottish airport has to quarantine and make it illegal to come into Scotland unless essential and up the patrols. This would put off the vast majority of people chancing it.

Instead of doing this they decided it was easier and more popular to just blame the toaaaaarrrrriiieeesss.

You post like you get your info from SiU or United against Separation!    

I think the SG hasn't shone throughout this but at present:  Death rates in Scotland are 1/2 that of England and the sensible vaccine tactics of the SG will save thousands of lives verses the tactics of the UK gov.  

 

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, 101 said:

When I said close the border it was short hand for travelers moving through the border without quarantine. Goods wouldn't be effected.

If you're trying to impose a border on people then the transport of goods is directly impacted as well. There is simply no scope for Scotland - or England just as equally - to enact this without producing complete and utter chaos while the countries remain highly integrated.  

There will not be a credible border between the countries for years if not decades after independence. It's completely and utterly pointless to discuss having one in place last summer then.

Quote

I'm not explaining their poor performance, they have made mistakes like all Governments and I'm sure the mistakes will be useful for the next pandemic.

They haven't even learned the lessons of their schools farrago between waves of the current pandemic so yeah that line is not actually convincing. 

 

Quote

Comparisons with the ROI are mad, we simply don't have the same tension of paramilitary activity in the Scotland/ England region to make that a useful rabbit hole to disappear down.

That's not the reason why RoI refused to regulate movement with the UK: it is because the sheer volume of work, family and trade contacts made it completely ridiculous to do so unless there was a current pandemic emergency. Which was emphatically not the case in the summer of 2020. Scotland and England are far more closely integrated, so the idea that the SG could have gotten away with slapping quarantines on everyone who travels to London for work purposes just because Sridhar was pushing for it is more fantasy island nonsense. They would have been absolutely slaughtered for it as an example of overkill, and rightly so. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, Erih Shtrep said:

You post like you get your info from SiU or United against Separation!    

I think the SG hasn't shone throughout this but at present:  Death rates in Scotland are 1/2 that of England and the sensible vaccine tactics of the SG will save thousands of lives verses the tactics of the UK gov.  

 

I have no idea which is correct but someone posted earlier that excess mortality (or some way of measuring death rates) was higher in Scotland than England.

everyone can pick a select figure to suit their own agenda.  Doesn’t prove a case one way or the other however.

[Erih Shtrep]

18 minutes ago, tamthebam said:

 

Lib Dems have Cole-Hamilton who I think is a cnut.

 

To correct you everyone thinks ACH is the cuntyist c**t in the world.   




He's a c**t everyday but today he's a c**t for pretending to be happy Scotland beat England at the rugby despite being a proud Englishman.   He's a fake c**t and his tie isn't straight.   f**k him. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by Erih Shtrep

[101]

1 minute ago, virginton said:

If you're trying to impose a border on people then the transport of goods is directly impacted as well. There is simply no scope for Scotland - or England - to enact this without producing complete and utter chaos while the countries remain highly integrated.  

There will not be a credible border between the countries for years if not decades after independence. It's completely and utterly pointless to discuss having one last summer then.

They haven't even learned the lessons of their schools farrago between waves of the current pandemic so yeah that line is not actually convincing. 

 

That's not the reason why RoI refused to regulate movement with the UK: it is because the sheer volume of work, family and trade contacts made it completely ridiculous to do so unless there was a current pandemic emergency. Which was emphatically not the case in the summer of 2020. Scotland and England are far more closely integrated, so the idea that the SG could have gotten away with slapping quarantines on everyone who travels to London for work purposes just because Sridhar was pushing for it is more fantasy island nonsense. They would have been absolutely slaughtered for it as an example of overkill, and rightly so. 

If Scotland wishes to rejoin the EU there will of course be a border between Scotland and England. 

It would be difficult to begin with but I'm sure it would be fairly easy to deal with once established.

Between the first and second National lockdowns schooling has changed so I would disagree with you there. I also believe that it's still unclear to what extent in school transmission played in the spread of the virus, something for us to all look forward to I'm sure!

You mean to tell me that not 4 weeks after border staff were put in Northern Ireland and had to stop going to work for dear of being killed that this wasn't a major reason in not closing the border between the Free State and N.I. I'm sure the close interlinking nature of the border was a major factor was well but I would say that they are about equal.

The numbers traveling between London and Scotland in march would have been tiny. Sticking them in quarantine wouldn't have caused a shit storm and infact it begs the question what are folk doing flying about the country to basically go to meetings at great cost to the atmosphere, hopefully MPs will never go back to the madness of trailing to London for 3/4 days.

[101]

7 minutes ago, Erih Shtrep said:

To correct you everyone thinks ACH is the cuntyist c**t in the world.   




He's a c**t everyday but today he's a c**t for pretending to be happy Scotland beat England at the rugby despite being a proud Englishman.   He's a fake c**t and his tie isn't straight.   f**k him. 

Bad tie!!

[vikingTON]

40 minutes ago, 101 said:

Not in their manifesto. I would be suprised if they did anyway. Lib Dems perhaps as they are the only party not in power in the UK, the Greens seem to be in fairly broad consensus with the SNP administration.

I would be very surprised if the Scottish Tories aren't pointing to talk of ending restrictions sooner south of the border as part of their election campaign. Carlaw was pushing for the SG to stop dragging its feet in ending the first lockdown last summer and it'll be an open goal for them. Those who want to vote for them because they're staunch Yoons won't care, but they'll have a shot at hoovering up some votes from those sick of the Swinney, Leitch, Sridhar and the gangs' shite.

I will certainly not be voting for them, but it is continually boiling my pish that the politics of lockdown in the UK has followed a moronic libertarian-right v statist-left-centre dialectic, when the economic costs of sustaining restrictions stand to bury any prospect of radically progressive change for a generation, in an independent Scotland or not. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Todd_is_God]

If a conservative vote means i can go on holiday, and enjoy a restriction free day out at the pub, restaurant, football or races, then so be it. 

Like I said, independence is not priority #1 right now. The SNP don't have a divine right to my vote.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Todd_is_God

[Erih Shtrep]

3 minutes ago, 101 said:

If Scotland wishes to rejoin the EU there will of course be a border between Scotland and England. 

Far from certain and we don't know what relationship rUK will have with Europe at that time.   We've seen Gibraltar stay within Schengen https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55497084.   There's nothing to say Scotland cant have a similar arrangement with rest of the island.  

 

[101]

4 minutes ago, virginton said:

I would be very surprised if the Scottish Tories aren't pointing to talk of ending restrictions south of the border as part of their election campaign. Carlaw was pushing for the SG to stop dragging its feet in ending the first lockdown last summer and it'll be an open goal for them. Those who want to vote for them because they're staunch Yoons won't care, but they'll have a shot at hoovering up some votes from those sick of the Swinney, Leitch, Sridhar and the gangs' shite.

I will certainly not be voting for them, but it is continually boiling my pish that the politics of lockdown in the UK has followed a moronic libertarian-right v statist-left-centre dialectic, when the economic costs of sustaining restrictions stand to bury any prospect of radically progressive change for a generation, in an independent Scotland or not. 

Depends what Boris tells them to do, they seem to be full steam "save the union" at the moment I would doubt their manifesto will have anything of real substance and it certainly won't deviate from what UKg are up to, which is a shame.

 

Just now, Erih Shtrep said:

Far from certain and we don't know what relationship rUK will have with Europe at that time.   We've seen Gibraltar stay within Schengen https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-55497084.   There's nothing to say Scotland cant have a similar arrangement with rest of the island.  

 

Gibraltar have a land border with EU not a third country. The UK will need to make a choice to either cut NI free or you're right rejoin the customs union but I think it will be the former not the latter.

[Burnieman]

If a conservative vote means i can go on holiday, and enjoy a restriction free day out at the pub, restaurant, football or races, then so be it. 
Like I said, independence is not priority #1 right now. The SNP don't have a divine right to my vote.

My word.

[madwullie]

4 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

If a conservative vote means i can go on holiday, and enjoy a restriction free day out at the pub, restaurant, football or races, then so be it. 

Like I said, independence is not priority #1 right now. The SNP don't have a divine right to my vote.

This is why they have an 80 seat majority and are destroying the country. 

[Erih Shtrep]

19 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

If a conservative vote means i can go on holiday, and enjoy a restriction free day out at the pub, restaurant, football or races, then so be it.

The SNP don't have a divine right to my vote.

Perhaps you can follow through your logic.   If you vote Conservative in Bellshill you'll be backing a loser who'll come in 4th, your vote wont vote in a Tory MSP, who won't have a majority in our parliament, which means you won't be going on holiday or a day at the pub, restaurant or football or horses.   

As I linked you earlier you're are a fit for the Scottish Libertarians, so vote for them.  

Edited February 6, 2021 by Erih Shtrep

[vikingTON]

12 minutes ago, 101 said:

If Scotland wishes to rejoin the EU there will of course be a border between Scotland and England. 

It would be difficult to begin with but I'm sure it would be fairly easy to deal with once established.

 

You mean to tell me that not 4 weeks after border staff were put in Northern Ireland and had to stop going to work for dear of being killed that this wasn't a major reason in not closing the border between the Free State and N.I. I'm sure the close interlinking nature of the border was a major factor was well but I would say that they are about equal.

There will not be a credible border for years, in the same way that the Irish Sea border now contains countless exemptions and grace periods yet is still proving to be a disaster. The idea that an independent Scotland could have just set up roadblocks at Coldstream and the like to turn folk round/frog march them into quarantine is just nonsense.

Quote

Between the first and second National lockdowns schooling has changed so I would disagree with you there. I also believe that it's still unclear to what extent in school transmission played in the spread of the virus, something for us to all look forward to I'm sure!

Schooling in autumn led to the second lockdown. The first thing that the SG is gormlessly seeking to reopen are, erm, the schools. Limited years to start with yes, but they still haven't accepted the fact that 30 weans sitting in every room all week is not compatible with an airborne pandemic. 

Quote

The numbers traveling between London and Scotland in march would have been tiny. Sticking them in quarantine wouldn't have caused a shit storm and infact it begs the question what are folk doing flying about the country to basically go to meetings at great cost to the atmosphere, hopefully MPs will never go back to the madness of trailing to London for 3/4 days.

Yeah you're just reaching badly now if you think that putting people in quarantine for crossing the Scottish-English border would not have caused a political shitstorm on this island. There's no point even responding to that ludicrous 'it's good for the environment' patter either. Whether Scotland is part of the UK or an independent country in the EU it is not going to have practical control over its borders or an effective means to pick and choose which contacts to accept with its nearest neighbours.

It is not a New Zealand, you are tilting at windmills.

Edited February 6, 2021 by vikingTON

[Distant Doonhamer]

5 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

If a conservative vote means i can go on holiday, and enjoy a restriction free day out at the pub, restaurant, football or races, then so be it. 

Like I said, independence is not priority #1 right now. The SNP don't have a divine right to my vote.

If your location is indeed Bellshill I'd suggest a Tory vote will make very little difference to anything.

I know that's not the point you are making though.

[Todd_is_God]

1 minute ago, madwullie said:

This is why they have an 80 seat majority and are destroying the country. 

You are assuming the same will be returned in May. In which case, fine - that's how democracies work.

Just don't moan when reality bites.

[101]

2 minutes ago, virginton said:

There will not be a credible border for years, in the same way that the Irish Sea border now contains countless exemptions and grace periods yet is still proving to be a disaster. The idea that an independent Scotland could have just set up roadblocks at Coldstream and the like to turn folk round/force them into quarantine is just nonsense.

Schooling in autumn led to the second lockdown. The first thing that the SG is gormlessly seeking to reopen are, erm, the schools. Limited years to start with yes, but they still haven't accepted the fact that 30 weans sitting in every room all week is not compatible with an airborne pandemic. 

Yeah you're just reaching badly now if you think that putting people in quarantine for crossing the Scottish-English border would not have caused a political shitstorm on this island. There's no point even responding to that ludicrous 'it's good for the environment' patter either. Whether Scotland is part of the UK or an independent country in the EU it is not going to have practical control over its borders or an effective means to pick and choose which contacts to accept with its nearest neighbours.

It is not a New Zealand, you are tilting at windmills.

Your first 2 points are interesting and if I wasn't 3 sheets to the wind I would engage. Apologies.

However perhaps it's time to properly consider mounting Scotland to legs so we can move around the world in a sort of perma summer state, it would be excellent and probably not too expensive and maybe in the event of another global pandemic we could enter orbit until it's safe to come down. Anything is possible these days and it's worth a shot imo.