Burnieman Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest.I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Burnieman said: 6 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. They do. That's why church services have been online this whole time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: People are free to believe whatever storybook they like. It doesn't make them any more important, though. If gatherings are deemed unsafe in general, then i'm afraid that includes religious ones. I agree with all of that. That's not the same as saying religion isn't real though. Edited February 10, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Todd_Isn't_Prod 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Have some faith in Magic Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, Scosha said: Is there any daily figure for the number of people being admitted daily to hospital? While the overall number in there is important, there seems to be a high number of patients currently taking longer to leave hospital. Would be good to know how many are actually being admitted each day as it would surely show the impact of the vaccine? The travelling taby site shows weekly admissions by age updated on a Wednesday. https://www.travellingtabby.com/scotland-coronavirus-tracker/ Just over 500 75 plus last week. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said: NS today said that they have started to record the number of patients who have been in ICU for longer than 28 days as there has been a large growth in that figure. That is hopefully a positive in that these people are not dying and new treatments whilst taking a long time mean people who were dying previously are now hanging in there albeit seriously I'll enough to be in ICU treatment. Presumably new admissions may follow as it is useful as you rightly point out. I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Burnieman said: 8 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect, and recognise what religion brings to peoples lives. Also, no one is saying that we should open up places of worship while we're still at risk. This debate is about what gets to open up first when we're in a position to do so. For what it's worth, I'm not religious. I've never been baptised. The only religious ceremonies I've attended have been Protestant and Catholic weddings and funerals. I'm not arguing this from a position of self-interest. I'd like to think that a person of religion recognises that jobs and livelihoods are far more important than him getting into a building to do his stuff, which he can already do at home. Jobs and livelihoods can be sustained through UBI and furlough. We have the ability to do that any time we want. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, G51 said: No one is saying it makes anyone more or less important, but freedom of religious expression has to be an absolute cornerstone of society and progressive politics. As part of that, it's important to ensure we treat religions and religious people with respect. Yes, providing freedom of religious expression has brought us all much closer together and taught us respect and compassion for others. 12 minutes ago, G51 said: Wars have been fought and people have died for centuries because of religion. Ah. Religious folk can wait for public gatherings along with the rest of us. If they can worship their god indoors I better be able to watch my team outside. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 51 minutes ago, G51 said: These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible. It's not discriminatory. The rules are exactly the same for everyone, regardless of which religion you're a part of or whether you're not part of any religion. Banning something does not discriminate against people who really want to do that thing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, MONKMAN said: Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. It does seem strange that the media peddle, it's all going to shit and then never actually report when it's fixed or indeed exceeding expectations. As for the media in England you would assume they would be pretty vocal critics of the now week long decline in vaccinations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 It's not Leitch's decision, it's the Scottish Governments. Religion is clearly more important than non-essential businesses. Religion dictates how a lot of people live their lives. Just because those of us who aren't religious do not necessarily appreciate that doesn't make it less important.Religion is orders of magnitude less important than non essential businesses. If people want to have a word with their invisible friend, they can do it from home. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, The Moonster said: Yes, providing freedom of religious expression has brought us all much closer together and taught us respect and compassion for others. Ah. Religious folk can wait for public gatherings along with the rest of us. If they can worship their god indoors I better be able to watch my team outside. Wars being fought over an intolerance of freedom of religious expression does not prove that religious expression is a bad thing. The opposite, in fact. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 40 minutes ago, G51 said: That is not what secular means. There is nothing in the definition about separation of church and state. Religion should not influence government decision, but that is not relevant to the question being asked. It's what 'secular society' means though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said: I agree with all of that. That's not the same as saying religion isn't real though. Fair point, the wording was poor. What I meant was that the central characters of religion(s) are works of fiction. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, MONKMAN said: Appears to be a media blackout regarding vaccination figures the past week or so. Don't you dare compare England's vaccine figures to anywhere else. This isn't the time for playing politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forest_Fifer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 Definition of secular: not connected with religious or spiritual matters. So it stands - Scotland is a country with many faiths and a significant number of secular people. These restrictions are stopping religious worship - that is the point of them. Yes you can pray in your house in some religions, you can't for others. So these restrictions are having a significant, discriminatory impact on people of certain faiths. This must be rectified as quickly as possible. This effectively comes down to what kind of society we want to be.Which religion doesn't allow you to pray indoors? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know?I probably worded that wrong, they have decided to start publishing the figures is probably more accurate. She's right in that ICU numbers will be skewed by that cohort. I think she said it was 38 out of the hundred or so. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doulikefish Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 29 minutes ago, renton said: Data coming out of Israel is encouraging. It took them a while to see the results of vaccinations and they have been obviously chewing through it at a much higher rate than anyone. Whilst its encouraging we need to see data from a country thats vaxed and not in lockdown 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Distant Doonhamer Posted February 10, 2021 Share Posted February 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Todd_is_God said: I don't doubt this is probably true, but if they are only just starting to record this, how do they know? The Scottish Intensive Care Society Audit Group (SICSAG) keeps a huge amount of data. That data will be available for figures right through the pandemic. Indeed such data will be available going back many years. It's a fantastic audit data set. The Scot Gov may only now be looking at this (I don't know that) but the data to highlight the number of longer stay ICU stays with Covid, and non-Covid for that matter, will be easily sourced. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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