Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[LongTimeLurker]

35 minutes ago, Left Back said:

...Something doesn't have to be factual to be true. 

It does if you want to keep contact with rationality.

[Distant Doonhamer]

15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

Nope. It's still not discriminatory, because the rules are still the same for everyone.

It's a fair point about Christmas although the lifting of Christmas restrictions was unarguably far more about the 'secular' side of Christmas, rather than the religious side. It was lifted because people wanted to visit their families and have dinner, not because they wanted to go to a church service.

Not sure that's always the case though I do get the point you are making.

The courts have also ruled that the human rights protection from discrimination includes indirect discrimination. This occurs when a rule or policy, supposedly applying to everyone equally, actually works to the disadvantage of one or more groups.

Edit to add. I'm not saying we should preferentially open places of worship.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer

[G51]

2 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

You know the latter is not possible, the SG does not control furlough or UBI.

The UK government does though. Which means this is still very possible.

[The Moonster]

2 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I suspect Jason reads this and drops nuggets like the religious reopening priority just to see the reaction !

He did mention it on his piece on TV last night but I didn't mention it in the post I made re his comments as I took that part to be wishful thinking on his part given his well documented strong religious beliefs.

I try and avoid the news but I did catch this interview before I went to my bed last night. I've tried to give Leitch the benefit of the doubt for much of this shit, after all he is in his position for a reason, but I get the distinct impression from any interview I see with him that he absolutely fucking loves this. He cracks wee jokes and is all bubbly and smiley, whilst talking about one of the worst situations the country has ever faced. At least when Sturgeon comes out to speak she looks and sounds like she's dealing with a pandemic and has the foresight not to act like a giddy wee girl when she gets asked about what restrictions we'll face next. Leitch doesn't give the impression that he wants this to end.

[Burnieman]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

The UK government does though. Which means this is still very possible.

We're not talking UK Govt bud, and they won't extend furlough or completely overhaul the social security system to get places of worship open in the next few weeks.

[The Moonster]

8 minutes ago, Forest_Fifer said:

 I just thought that your spelling was pish...

Same

 

[Granny Danger]

Only a slight drop in inoculations on Tuesday from Monday’s record high despite the horrendous weather.  Very encouraging.

[Billy Jean King]

Um, what? I'm stating that there is nothing in buddhism that proscribes praying indoors.

Edit - oh f**k it, done like a kipper, etc. Well played ya b*****d. I just thought that your spelling was pish...

To be fair we do currently worship indoors via "live stream" or like tonight via the great god Sky.

[Gordon EF]

6 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Not sure that's always the case though I do get the point you are making.

The courts have also ruled that the human rights protection from discrimination includes indirect discrimination. This occurs when a rule or policy, supposedly applying to everyone equally, actually works to the disadvantage of one or more groups.

Edit to add. I'm not saying we should preferentially open places of worship.

Yeah, it's a much trickier subject than I made it out to be.

For example, you could argue the tampon tax is discriminatory against women (and you'd be right) but no reasonable person is going to argue the tax laws are discriminatory against men because men, on average, earn higher salaries and so pay more tax.

But if someone thinks places of worship being closed is discriminatory against Sikhs because they have a 5% lower internet connectivity than Jews, we're just going down an absolutely mental path.

[true_rover]

Is there any daily figure for the number of people being admitted daily to hospital? 
While the overall number in there is important, there seems to be a high number of patients currently taking longer to leave hospital. Would be good to know how many are actually being admitted each day as it would surely show the impact of the vaccine? 

You can get the daily figures by nation here:
https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare

[Ron Aldo]

Opening places of worship before everything else is a great idea.

If your business is failing or you've lost your job or your mental health is in tatters, you can just go and say a wee prayer and everything will be all right.

[DMCs]

58k is great. Really good figure. My dad (66) should be one of them this week.

English figures a little disappointing despite being the best Wednesday yet and up about 12k on last week.

Supposedly there have been rumours of supply issues though so hopefully doesn't hit a bit of a dip again.

EDIT: Uptake in Scotland seems to be very strong. England having uptake issues particularly among ethnic minorities potentially?

Edited February 10, 2021 by DMCs

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

The point is that right now they don’t know for sure. The roll-out of the vaccine is still a massive data collection stage where they can look at variables that come into play not found within the trials. 

 

If knowing something 'for sure' was the benchmark to take action then there'd be next to no pre-emptive decisions made at all. Only Covid psychosis has produced this desire for 100% certainty at all times. 

[Distant Doonhamer]

Good to see hospital numbers still falling. 1542 on today's figure from 1618 yesterday.

The decline in ICU numbers does seem to have reached a plateau. 113 today from 112 yesterday.

This may be at least in part due to the number of long stay patients (defined as more than 28 days) as is being discussed above. They are now recording this on the daily number release. It's 30 patients in today's figures which is a significant proportion (27%) of the total number in ICU. Be interesting to keep an eye on this too.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Distant Doonhamer

[Bairnardo]

I said before, watch asymptomatic testing takenoff as soon as the vaccine starts to take effect on the number.

Changing the symptom list to include everything that a flu or common cold can present with is the most snidey, sneaky way of doing that imaginable. Worrying stuff really. They they desperately trying to keep case numbers high now.

[Billy Jean King]

Same [emoji38]
 

I was just trying to lighten the mood from the ecclesiastical clusterfuck.

It also breaks the monotony of sitting here testing software for Council Tax legislative changes. I hate this time of year at the best of times !!!

[101]

4 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

Opening places of worship before everything else is a great idea.

If your business is failing or you've lost your job or your mental health is in tatters, you can just go and say a wee prayer and everything will be all right.

Any excuse to get this blasted

[Wee Bully]

What’s really interesting through this entire debate is the way “the most important thing to open up” is the one we are most interested in ourselves, if it needs to be phased.

Me - I want the pubs open. If that means Elixiar can’t fly, so be it.
Elixir - He wants to fly, as without it, he won’t get his hole. If that means Leitch can’t go to church, so be it
Burnieman - he wants GP’s to work 7 days a week without break, because “there’s a pandemic on. I have no idea what that means other than negative results, but so be it.

Sadly caused by the lack of a roadmap.

I suspect we will see one pretty soon, if numbers drop the way they are. The reason we don’t have one yet isn’t that it doesn’t exist, but because they want to get numbers as low as possible before we all relax and open up. If they say that in March, things will open up, then people start now.

[Left Back]

17 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said:

It does if you want to keep contact with rationality.

Nothing to do with rationality.  Facts are objective.  they state definites that can be proven.  A truth is what someone believes to be true and is therefore subjective.  If you believe something to be true then it becomes your truth.   Conversely one person can interpret one set of facts one way and another can interpret them another.  It doesn't mean either interpretation is the truth

The subtleties between facts and truth is argued in a court of law on a daily basis by rational people.

[Gordon EF]

1 minute ago, Wee Bully said:

What’s really interesting through this entire debate is the way “the most important thing to open up” is the one we are most interested in ourselves, if it needs to be phased.

Me - I want the pubs open. If that means Elixiar can’t fly, so be it.
Elixir - He wants to fly, as without it, he won’t get his hole. If that means Leitch can’t go to church, so be it
Burnieman - he wants GP’s to work 7 days a week without break, because “there’s a pandemic on. I have no idea what that means other than negative results, but so be it.

Sadly caused by the lack of a roadmap.

I suspect we will see one pretty soon, if numbers drop the way they are. The reason we don’t have one yet isn’t that it doesn’t exist, but because they want to get numbers as low as possible before we all relax and open up. If they say that in March, things will open up, then people start now.

The real distinction is between people who want (insert whatever thing they want most) to be opened up first, regardless of the consequences and the adults who recognise it's best to have a logical set of priorities even if that means they have to wait longer for the things they want most.

It's similar to the tedious "I'm a {profession A} and I think {profession A} should be given priority for the vaccine" you hear over, and over, and over again every time idiot members of the public are allowed on to TV.