Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[Forest_Fifer]

I’ve read a few articles regarding the Rangers v Leverkusen game being the last sports event in Scotland held with fans. The Sunday of that week (15th) I went to the Emirates in Glasgow for the basketball final, nobody mentions that one

They did specify sports events to be fair.

[Hedgecutter]

6 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

This was one of the lines from Biden's address to the American's last night where he said they were safe, that everyone should get one when it was their turn with the promise of small gatherings being possible on 4th July. It would seem they are also now way more cautious.

Not a huge surprise in a country in which >6 million people are convinced that the world is flat, and that's before you start with any other conspiracy theorists.

[Detournement]

Tommy Sheridan obviously had the same maths teacher as Granny Danger. 

 

[Bairnardo]

4 hours ago, Jan Vojáček said:

Just got this sent over to the work inbox. Who'd have thunk it, eh?

 

BBC Scotland carrying this now.

Cigar smoke staining the ceilings of healthcare workers around the country

[Left Back]

7 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Tommy Sheridan obviously had the same maths teacher as Granny Danger. 

 

the guy that replied to the tweet went to the same school as well.  He's offering up £500m to each house 

Sign me up for some of that please.

[Forest_Fifer]

Tommy Sheridan obviously had the same maths teacher as Granny Danger. 
 

We dealt with this one yesterday, do keep up.

[Hedgecutter]

18 minutes ago, Detournement said:

Tommy Sheridan obviously had the same maths teacher as Granny Danger. 

 

I suspect that poor Tommy has heard '£37 billion' and presumed that it used the 'British billion'.

AFAIA, the 'British billion' was a million million, whilst the American billion was only a thousand million.  However, it's fair to say that the latter is an Americanism that's become fairly established in UK finance, although this may have been a post-Granny Danger (& post-Tommy) shift?

Edited March 12, 2021 by Hedgecutter

[Bairnardo]

See the levelling of restrictions currently being reported, is that an indication of the limitations of the lesser restrictions compared to lockdown #1, or is it an indication of falling compliance? Plenty of folk have fired their anecdotal takes in here re compliance, but has there ever been a time of plateauing or rising cases at a time where the restrictions in place haven't been recently loosened (if the current trends are showing a plateau before schools went back), IDK if they did begin to show that in the period before schools went back or in the lagging period where you wouldn't expect their effect to show)

[Dev]

I have had enough of the nonsense surrounding organised outdoor activities, of which, football is only one, so here goes. Make of it what you will:

By last summer it became clear to the Highly qualified and experienced Neutral Professors who investigated and researched the link between the transmission of the original covid and organised outdoor activities that, provided appropriate protocols were put in place, and followed, then the risk became minimised. This specific advice was accessed by all UK Governments. You cannot, of course, rule out all risk in this. Indeed, in life, there is risk everywhere you turn. As such it became a question of managing the original covid virus risk in relation to organised outdoor activities.

In my opinion, from the start of the epidemic and right through to the summer, it seemed fair to assume that organised outdoor activities would be a source of potential covid transmission to those involved, whether playing, walking, organising, etc. The Professors, however, were completely clear that, in reality, the risk from organised outdoor activities was low and controllable. I believe that this came as a great surprise to most people, at least those I know were surprised, and relieved, to hear this news.

However, the various UK Governments each responded differently to the news. In England, for example, outdoor football was permitted under controlled circumstances. By the autumn Scotland also permitted football to go ahead. This was subject to stringent protocols put in place by the Scottish Football Association following detailed and lengthy negotiations with the Scottish Government. In other words, they wouldn't have been approved without the Scottish Government's express consent. 

From September 2020 onwards the concerns about covid altered to became a question of how to deal with the mutations of the covid coronavirus as they come along. This has been very high on the list of concerns for all Governments around the world. Indeed, in the Scottish Parliament, it has been absolutely at the top of the list of consideration when dealing with the epidemic. To the extent that it was used as a reason to halt organised outdoor activities such as football (except mainly for the Scottish Premier level of the game). 

UK Government statistics show that the numbers of identified mutant covid cases in the UK at 3rd March. 2021, were 108,895. In Scotland the figure was 4,052. Of these the VOC-202012/01 (UK/Kent variant) which was identified way back (it seems way back now) in September represented 108,337 UK cases and 4,025 cases in Scotland.

These figures came from:    Variants: distribution of cases data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk). Anyone can check these official figures which were available to all UK Governments.

These figures for covid variants start as far back as September and they surprised me as they are very small when compared with the total numbers of confirmed cases of coronavirus within the UK. Today this stands at 4,241,677. I gained the impression that as the NHS has very much seemingly got the upper-hand now in the fight against the original virus that most new cases were down to new variants. However, the statistics appear to show this is not even remotely correct. Yet it was such reasoning by the Scottish Government (or so it appears to me) which was the rationale for halting organised outdoor activities such as football below the level of the Scottish Premier. Worse, this remains their "case".

In Wales the rate of infection in the autumn was the worst in the UK. Wales also ignored the Scientific advice about organised outdoor activities. Hardly a game of football has been played there compared to Scotland since last summer. This means that football was not a factor in what happened there between the autumn and today. Playing or not playing this sport made no difference yet, in Wales, the infection figures are now the lowest of the UK nations. What else hasn't the Scottish Government been doing which allowed this dramatic change of affairs to come about?

The Scottish Governments' own Track and Trace statistics flag up the most hazardous activities which  are related to over 70% of cases. These are the Top Ten:

Top Ten			Nos of Cases		%
1	Events and Activities	Shopping	41665		20.8
2	Household or Accommodation	Your own home, or family home	23643		11.8
3	Events and Activities	Personal Care	17250		8.6
4	Work or Education	Health care	11704		5.8
5	Events and Activities	Visiting a health or social care setting	9700		4.8
6	Events and Activities	Eating out	9499		4.7
7	Events and Activities	Visiting friends or relatives	8988		4.4
8	Work or Education	Attending childcare, school, educational	7571		3.7
9	Work or Education	Social care or home care	6064		3.0
10	Work or Education	Other	6005		3.0

Given that football is subject to the Governments' agreed protective protocols it's not likely to be on any such list but everyday activities will be and are because they are risky. However, it is still treated like a prohibition offence.

In my view significant errors of decision making appear to have been made. Innocent people throughout Scotland are being scared into submitting to the will of those whose decision making does not appear to match advice from the recognised scientific experts or from evidence from elsewhere. Thousands more have been made unwitting scape-goats for poor decision making at Government level. This is not to say that all decisions being made don't make sense and that the Scottish NHS staff are not working their socks off for the people of Scotland.

Today there is a situation where there are vaccines available, even invented and produced in the UK, which are enabling the valiant staff of the NHS (and their barely mentioned Military colleagues)  throughout the UK to vaccinate against the disease and to save the lives of infected people and to reduce the effect of the virus on these people (long covid). We are so fortunate when compared with the rest of the world.

Patently the Scottish Government has, in my view, made significant errors of decision making. I sense that they are putting politics first and everything-else after that. There is a feeling of a thinking along the lines of "If I don't do anything then I cannot be accused of making a mistake ".  There is, apparently, clearly thought out and masterfully presented, truly sincere, speech making in Parliament when announcing "reasons" for not doing anything or "explaining" why nothing is to be done "at present". There is no concept that anyone out there might twig what they're up to. It reminds me of a saying from Mark Twain:

“Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow.”

Maybe I am being entirely unfair and the Scottish Government hasn't acted wisely simply because it is Scared to take responsibility for decisions or it is filled with people who are just scared of dealing with risk.  Who knows.

FWIW: Make decisions now. Do not fear making the decisions that you are paid and elected to make. Bring back organised outdoor activities immediately.

 

 

[Billy Jean King]

I have had enough of the nonsense surrounding organised outdoor activities, of which, football is only one, so here goes. Make of it what you will:
By last summer it became clear to the Highly qualified and experienced Neutral Professors who investigated and researched the link between the transmission of the original covid and organised outdoor activities that, provided appropriate protocols were put in place, and followed, then the risk became minimised. This specific advice was accessed by all UK Governments. You cannot, of course, rule out all risk in this. Indeed, in life, there is risk everywhere you turn. As such it became a question of managing the original covid virus risk in relation to organised outdoor activities.
In my opinion, from the start of the epidemic and right through to the summer, it seemed fair to assume that organised outdoor activities would be a source of potential covid transmission to those involved, whether playing, walking, organising, etc. The Professors, however, were completely clear that, in reality, the risk from organised outdoor activities was low and controllable. I believe that this came as a great surprise to most people, at least those I know were surprised, and relieved, to hear this news.
However, the various UK Governments each responded differently to the news. In England, for example, outdoor football was permitted under controlled circumstances. By the autumn Scotland also permitted football to go ahead. This was subject to stringent protocols put in place by the Scottish Football Association following detailed and lengthy negotiations with the Scottish Government. In other words, they wouldn't have been approved without the Scottish Government's express consent. 
From September 2020 onwards the concerns about covid altered to became a question of how to deal with the mutations of the covid coronavirus as they come along. This has been very high on the list of concerns for all Governments around the world. Indeed, in the Scottish Parliament, it has been absolutely at the top of the list of consideration when dealing with the epidemic. To the extent that it was used as a reason to halt organised outdoor activities such as football (except mainly for the Scottish Premier level of the game). 
UK Government statistics show that the numbers of identified mutant covid cases in the UK at 3rd March. 2021, were 108,895. In Scotland the figure was 4,052. Of these the VOC-202012/01 (UK/Kent variant) which was identified way back (it seems way back now) in September represented 108,337 UK cases and 4,025 cases in Scotland.
These figures came from:    Variants: distribution of cases data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk). Anyone can check these official figures which were available to all UK Governments.
These figures for covid variants start as far back as September and they surprised me as they are very small when compared with the total numbers of confirmed cases of coronavirus within the UK. Today this stands at 4,241,677. I gained the impression that as the NHS has very much seemingly got the upper-hand now in the fight against the original virus that most new cases were down to new variants. However, the statistics appear to show this is not even remotely correct. Yet it was such reasoning by the Scottish Government (or so it appears to me) which was the rationale for halting organised outdoor activities such as football below the level of the Scottish Premier. Worse, this remains their "case".
In Wales the rate of infection in the autumn was the worst in the UK. Wales also ignored the Scientific advice about organised outdoor activities. Hardly a game of football has been played there compared to Scotland since last summer. This means that football was not a factor in what happened there between the autumn and today. Playing or not playing this sport made no difference yet, in Wales, the infection figures are now the lowest of the UK nations. What else hasn't the Scottish Government been doing which allowed this dramatic change of affairs to come about?
The Scottish Governments' own Track and Trace statistics flag up the most hazardous activities which  are related to over 70% of cases. These are the Top Ten:

Top Ten			Nos of Cases		%
1	Events and Activities	Shopping	41665		20.8
2	Household or Accommodation	Your own home, or family home	23643		11.8
3	Events and Activities	Personal Care	17250		8.6
4	Work or Education	Health care	11704		5.8
5	Events and Activities	Visiting a health or social care setting	9700		4.8
6	Events and Activities	Eating out	9499		4.7
7	Events and Activities	Visiting friends or relatives	8988		4.4
8	Work or Education	Attending childcare, school, educational	7571		3.7
9	Work or Education	Social care or home care	6064		3.0
10	Work or Education	Other	6005		3.0

Given that football is subject to the Governments' agreed protective protocols it's not likely to be on any such list but everyday activities will be and are because they are risky. However, it is still treated like a prohibition offence.
In my view significant errors of decision making appear to have been made. Innocent people throughout Scotland are being scared into submitting to the will of those whose decision making does not appear to match advice from the recognised scientific experts or from evidence from elsewhere. Thousands more have been made unwitting scape-goats for poor decision making at Government level. This is not to say that all decisions being made don't make sense and that the Scottish NHS staff are not working their socks off for the people of Scotland.
Today there is a situation where there are vaccines available, even invented and produced in the UK, which are enabling the valiant staff of the NHS (and their barely mentioned Military colleagues)  throughout the UK to vaccinate against the disease and to save the lives of infected people and to reduce the effect of the virus on these people (long covid). We are so fortunate when compared with the rest of the world.
Patently the Scottish Government has, in my view, made significant errors of decision making. I sense that they are putting politics first and everything-else after that. There is a feeling of a thinking along the lines of "If I don't do anything then I cannot be accused of making a mistake ".  There is, apparently, clearly thought out and masterfully presented, truly sincere, speech making in Parliament when announcing "reasons" for not doing anything or "explaining" why nothing is to be done "at present". There is no concept that anyone out there might twig what they're up to. It reminds me of a saying from Mark Twain:
“Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow.”
Maybe I am being entirely unfair and the Scottish Government hasn't acted wisely simply because it is Scared to take responsibility for decisions or it is filled with people who are just scared of dealing with risk.  Who knows.
FWIW: Make decisions now. Do not fear making the decisions that you are paid and elected to make. Bring back organised outdoor activities immediately.
 
 

Isn't the issue with (for example) amateur football things like changing facilities and car sharing / transport to and from games rather than the games and training itself ?

[Billy Jean King]

[101]

4 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

 

I look forward to outbreaks in English schools and his lightening speed U turn.

[ICTChris]

Tommy Sheridan has tweeted a correction to his wrong by a factor of 1000 tweet, that pulled in 25k likes and 6k retweets.  It got 110 likes.  Lovely stuff.

[Elixir]

Sounds like a slow pivot to save face.

[David W]

12 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Sounds like a slow pivot to save face.

I'm looking at a Devi turnaround as a massive positive.

[mizfit]

Get the Cigars out boys.

I’m looking at life back to normality by the end of June.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

24 minutes ago, Elixir said:

Sounds like a slow pivot to save face.

Im not getting the point about a massive ethical issue, everyone will be offered the vaccine, if they dont take it then they can’t complain if say Croatia says ‘no vaccine no entry’, its the same for yellow fever etc, its not an ethical issue. Im sure there will be a reasonable way around for people medically or otherwise unable to be vaccinated to get around it.

[Bairnardo]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Im not getting the point about a massive ethical issue, everyone will be offered the vaccine, if they dont take it then they can’t complain if say Croatia says ‘no vaccine no entry’, its the same for yellow fever etc, its not an ethical issue. Im sure there will be a reasonable way around for people medically or otherwise unable to be vaccinated to get around it.

The ethical issue applies to domestic use surely. I have no problem with your example but I have a massive problem with its use domestically

[Todd_is_God]

13 minutes ago, David W said:

I'm looking at a Devi turnaround as a massive minter.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

I have had enough of the nonsense surrounding organised outdoor activities, of which, football is only one, so here goes. Make of it what you will:

By last summer it became clear to the Highly qualified and experienced Neutral Professors who investigated and researched the link between the transmission of the original covid and organised outdoor activities that, provided appropriate protocols were put in place, and followed, then the risk became minimised. This specific advice was accessed by all UK Governments. You cannot, of course, rule out all risk in this. Indeed, in life, there is risk everywhere you turn. As such it became a question of managing the original covid virus risk in relation to organised outdoor activities.

In my opinion, from the start of the epidemic and right through to the summer, it seemed fair to assume that organised outdoor activities would be a source of potential covid transmission to those involved, whether playing, walking, organising, etc. The Professors, however, were completely clear that, in reality, the risk from organised outdoor activities was low and controllable. I believe that this came as a great surprise to most people, at least those I know were surprised, and relieved, to hear this news.

However, the various UK Governments each responded differently to the news. In England, for example, outdoor football was permitted under controlled circumstances. By the autumn Scotland also permitted football to go ahead. This was subject to stringent protocols put in place by the Scottish Football Association following detailed and lengthy negotiations with the Scottish Government. In other words, they wouldn't have been approved without the Scottish Government's express consent. 

From September 2020 onwards the concerns about covid altered to became a question of how to deal with the mutations of the covid coronavirus as they come along. This has been very high on the list of concerns for all Governments around the world. Indeed, in the Scottish Parliament, it has been absolutely at the top of the list of consideration when dealing with the epidemic. To the extent that it was used as a reason to halt organised outdoor activities such as football (except mainly for the Scottish Premier level of the game). 

UK Government statistics show that the numbers of identified mutant covid cases in the UK at 3rd March. 2021, were 108,895. In Scotland the figure was 4,052. Of these the VOC-202012/01 (UK/Kent variant) which was identified way back (it seems way back now) in September represented 108,337 UK cases and 4,025 cases in Scotland.

These figures came from:    Variants: distribution of cases data - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk). Anyone can check these official figures which were available to all UK Governments.

These figures for covid variants start as far back as September and they surprised me as they are very small when compared with the total numbers of confirmed cases of coronavirus within the UK. Today this stands at 4,241,677. I gained the impression that as the NHS has very much seemingly got the upper-hand now in the fight against the original virus that most new cases were down to new variants. However, the statistics appear to show this is not even remotely correct. Yet it was such reasoning by the Scottish Government (or so it appears to me) which was the rationale for halting organised outdoor activities such as football below the level of the Scottish Premier. Worse, this remains their "case".

In Wales the rate of infection in the autumn was the worst in the UK. Wales also ignored the Scientific advice about organised outdoor activities. Hardly a game of football has been played there compared to Scotland since last summer. This means that football was not a factor in what happened there between the autumn and today. Playing or not playing this sport made no difference yet, in Wales, the infection figures are now the lowest of the UK nations. What else hasn't the Scottish Government been doing which allowed this dramatic change of affairs to come about?

The Scottish Governments' own Track and Trace statistics flag up the most hazardous activities which  are related to over 70% of cases. These are the Top Ten:

Top Ten			Nos of Cases		%
1	Events and Activities	Shopping	41665		20.8
2	Household or Accommodation	Your own home, or family home	23643		11.8
3	Events and Activities	Personal Care	17250		8.6
4	Work or Education	Health care	11704		5.8
5	Events and Activities	Visiting a health or social care setting	9700		4.8
6	Events and Activities	Eating out	9499		4.7
7	Events and Activities	Visiting friends or relatives	8988		4.4
8	Work or Education	Attending childcare, school, educational	7571		3.7
9	Work or Education	Social care or home care	6064		3.0
10	Work or Education	Other	6005		3.0

Given that football is subject to the Governments' agreed protective protocols it's not likely to be on any such list but everyday activities will be and are because they are risky. However, it is still treated like a prohibition offence.

In my view significant errors of decision making appear to have been made. Innocent people throughout Scotland are being scared into submitting to the will of those whose decision making does not appear to match advice from the recognised scientific experts or from evidence from elsewhere. Thousands more have been made unwitting scape-goats for poor decision making at Government level. This is not to say that all decisions being made don't make sense and that the Scottish NHS staff are not working their socks off for the people of Scotland.

Today there is a situation where there are vaccines available, even invented and produced in the UK, which are enabling the valiant staff of the NHS (and their barely mentioned Military colleagues)  throughout the UK to vaccinate against the disease and to save the lives of infected people and to reduce the effect of the virus on these people (long covid). We are so fortunate when compared with the rest of the world.

Patently the Scottish Government has, in my view, made significant errors of decision making. I sense that they are putting politics first and everything-else after that. There is a feeling of a thinking along the lines of "If I don't do anything then I cannot be accused of making a mistake ".  There is, apparently, clearly thought out and masterfully presented, truly sincere, speech making in Parliament when announcing "reasons" for not doing anything or "explaining" why nothing is to be done "at present". There is no concept that anyone out there might twig what they're up to. It reminds me of a saying from Mark Twain:

“Never put off till tomorrow, what you can do the day after tomorrow.”

Maybe I am being entirely unfair and the Scottish Government hasn't acted wisely simply because it is Scared to take responsibility for decisions or it is filled with people who are just scared of dealing with risk.  Who knows.

FWIW: Make decisions now. Do not fear making the decisions that you are paid and elected to make. Bring back organised outdoor activities immediately.

 

 

This would be fine had you pointed out that the Scottish Gov DID in fact allow the continuation of outdoor sports such as Tennis and Golf while the UK and Welsh Governments ordered a stop and as yet have still not resumed and indeed are not scheduled to recommence until March 29th, meanwhile we have been playing throughout.