parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This topic was raised at the last West Region meeting and a following email was sent out to see who was interested. The upcoming problem for clubs with a youth pathway is what happens after U21s Next season will be the last year of our U21s and the coaches would like to keep the squad together the only current option is to move to the amateur leagues but this isn’t a great solution for the club as there’s no loaning or dual contract options available between the Juniors, Youth and Amateur leagues. There are a few clubs that play in the same U21s league as ourselves, would they be interested in forming a West Region Development League? An idea of how it could work: League formed below current League 2 Promotion/Relegation of 1 Place Clubs handle administration of both teams Separate team registrations Players can be loaned and dual contracted to both teams. Ie a first player coming back from injury could be loaned to the Dev team, a player under 21 in the Dev team is dual contracted Players over 21 in the Dev team can be loaned to the 1st team Dev teams are included in the Scottish Cup, Sectional Cup and West/Central Cups Two kickoff time options, Friday night for clubs with Astro/lights, Saturday 12pm on grass, other pitch options can be considered. Ie Largs play on a Friday night at Inverclyde rather than home ground. Just an idea, let the tearing apart behind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ringford10 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 At least your looking at the positive side for young players. This topic was raised at the last West Region meeting and a following email was sent out to see who was interested. The upcoming problem for clubs with a youth pathway is what happens after U21s Next season will be the last year of our U21s and the coaches would like to keep the squad together the only current option is to move to the amateur leagues but this isn’t a great solution for the club as there’s no loaning or dual contract options available between the Juniors, Youth and Amateur leagues. There are a few clubs that play in the same U21s league as ourselves, would they be interested in forming a West Region Development League? An idea of how it could work: League formed below current League 2 Promotion/Relegation of 1 Place Clubs handle administration of both teams Separate team registrations Players can be loaned and dual contracted to both teams. Ie a first player coming back from injury could be loaned to the Dev team, a player under 21 in the Dev team is dual contracted Players over 21 in the Dev team can be loaned to the 1st team Dev teams are included in the Scottish Cup, Sectional Cup and West/Central Cups Two kickoff time options, Friday night for clubs with Astro/lights, Saturday 12pm on grass, other pitch options can be considered. Ie Largs play on a Friday night at Inverclyde rather than home ground. Just an idea, let the tearing apart behind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 Few problems with your idea:How do you ensure first team & the youth team don't draw each other in cups?What happens if the team bottom of league 2 also has it's youth team win League 3?A club going down to League 3 would see close to zero away gates. This reduction also applies to the cups. For me the way forward is a standalone U21 or U20 league playing Friday nights. The LL U20 league has been a sucess & would be a good model to follow. I will agree however a youth league under the governanance of the west region & not controlled with the SYFA is an important step that needs to be taken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 They are individual teams, if they get drawn together than that’s the draw it could also be non promotion 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, parkcircus said: They are individual teams, if they get drawn together than that’s the draw it could also be non promotion So lets say that the "adult" junior team is having a really bad time of it. Lets use Irvine Meadow as a current example or, going back a few years, the Buffs. Lets also say that the "junior" junior team are doing really well, flying high at the top of their league and winning games. If the two teams were drawn together in the current round of the Scottish Cup and, if I understand you correctly, players can be moved freely between the two clubs then do you really think the club committees would potentially allow the "big" team to get knocked out? Of course not. On the flip side, as you don't seem to have any restrictions on moves, if Buffs young team were doing well and drew Meadow in the Scottish do you think the senior team would then loan a few top players to the younger side in the hope of knocking a rival out? In my opinion if you aren't looking strong enough to make it at your club by 21/22 then you need to either drop down the divisions or into amateur and look to build your career back up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 Aren’t players cup tied?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) Depending on the spaces needed to make the first round the dev teams could play prelim rounds, this cup ties all the players, and filters the teams down the right amount needed for the 1st round, covering some of the gaps left by the East teams Edited January 28, 2020 by parkcircus 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sortmeout Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 17 minutes ago, parkcircus said: Depending on the spaces needed to make the first round the dev teams could play prelim rounds, this cup ties all the players, and filters the teams down the right amount needed for the 1st round, covering some of the gaps left by the East teams Whilst I would hope that, if this ever happened, clubs would use this for development instead of working ways around it (like my earlier examples) but in a competitive sport like football I fear that any good intentions would be put aside purely for the purposes of winning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 Are you connected to a club with a pathway? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This topic was raised at the last West Region meeting and a following email was sent out to see who was interested. The upcoming problem for clubs with a youth pathway is what happens after U21s Next season will be the last year of our U21s and the coaches would like to keep the squad together the only current option is to move to the amateur leagues but this isn’t a great solution for the club as there’s no loaning or dual contract options available between the Juniors, Youth and Amateur leagues. There are a few clubs that play in the same U21s league as ourselves, would they be interested in forming a West Region Development League? An idea of how it could work: League formed below current League 2 Promotion/Relegation of 1 Place Clubs handle administration of both teams Separate team registrations Players can be loaned and dual contracted to both teams. Ie a first player coming back from injury could be loaned to the Dev team, a player under 21 in the Dev team is dual contracted Players over 21 in the Dev team can be loaned to the 1st team Dev teams are included in the Scottish Cup, Sectional Cup and West/Central Cups Two kickoff time options, Friday night for clubs with Astro/lights, Saturday 12pm on grass, other pitch options can be considered. Ie Largs play on a Friday night at Inverclyde rather than home ground. Just an idea, let the tearing apart behind. I like the thinking outside the box but I don’t think it will happen in its current format as you have laid out. The additional costs for some clubs could be prohibitive, most 21s fund themselves but (certainly in our area) get discounted access to facilities due to them still being youth. There would be a number of issues relating to facilities etc that would need to be overcome Could you not just establish and amateur team for them to play in. We linked up with one in the past which allowed us to bring players up when needed? Good luck if your going to try it and if it flys would be interested to see how it works out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted January 28, 2020 Share Posted January 28, 2020 This idea seems like a complicated way of addressing the problem of U21/reserve football. I'm sure someone from the likes of Clydebank will be along shortly to offer their critique as well. How about this instead: Remove the 25 player cap so all players can be signed for a Junior club. (Might as well abolish reinstatement as well while you're at it). Teams apply to take part in the Lowlands U20 Development League, normally played on Friday nights, and a West Conference is created (they'd join the current West teams of Bonnyton, BSC Glasgow, Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld Colts, Mid Annandale, and Upper Annandale). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 28, 2020 Author Share Posted January 28, 2020 While that’s a good option it doesn’t solve our problem 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clash city rocker Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Can just see Ardeer and Saltcoats voting to relegate themselves to a development league. Development teams in junior cup ? How exciting make up for losing Lithgae , Bo'ness etc. When a player reaches 21 he's developed enough , you go junior , you go anmie ,your a man. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 A development league is a good idea, but off to one side of the current setup. It would be too messy incorporating into the existing league structure for some of the reasons above, and also for the fact that almost no-one would follow them and it would be a difficult sell to get existing teams' fans interested in coming to see a second string, thus making them an unattractive addition to any league they were promoted to. The attendances at SPFL reserve games and for colt teams in the Challenge Cup prove there's little appetite for watching second strings even at that level, never mind at non-league level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTID Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 1 hour ago, Ginaro said: This idea seems like a complicated way of addressing the problem of U21/reserve football. I'm sure someone from the likes of Clydebank will be along shortly to offer their critique as well. How about this instead: Remove the 25 player cap so all players can be signed for a Junior club. (Might as well abolish reinstatement as well while you're at it). Teams apply to take part in the Lowlands U20 Development League, normally played on Friday nights, and a West Conference is created (they'd join the current West teams of Bonnyton, BSC Glasgow, Caledonian Braves, Cumbernauld Colts, Mid Annandale, and Upper Annandale). This. I have spoken to various clubs at 19s 21s etc and totally sympathise with good teams that feel something might come to an end. It is clear to me we spend so much time and effort into creating a love for the game at such an early age. When it gets to 16 and above, it almost seems like the pathway to retaining players at all levels just evaporates. As noted there is a real opportunity for a lot of top west junior clubs to create a proper development programme. This would create a good structure, environment, games played at good facilities and committed to long term development. Regards to the league 3 idea, I kind of think that’s where the reserve league comes in if that’s what your interested in. Notice East Kilbride done this and scrapped their u20s. I don’t think we should rule out any player of any age, there are always late developers even into their 20s. That’s probably where a full community model is needed. The 16/17 year olds might require something to suit their needs as that’s a jump from u17 to u20. After u20 those not quite signed up on contracts could still have potential if playing at a good level so some sort of strong amateur or reserve league probably needs to be in place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTID Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 Also worth noting a u17 SYFA player at 16 cannot play for their u20 which I find backwards. Purely an admin red tape rule. Same as ams has had problems bringing in 21s or 19s I’m sure. It’s just madness stopping boys playing up a level. Joke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 Last weekend we had over 100 people at each of our youth Scottish cup matches which considering we had 150 at our junior 4th round match last year against Thornton Hibs You can’t say they won’t have crowds because it doesn’t exist and there’s nothing to base that on. I’m sure a Friday night Dev team match in Kilwinning will easily draw 80 people 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 Ok, so let’s remove promotion, letting them play in cups is essential, no cups and it’ll die. The fines help to increase the operating income for the league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parkcircus Posted January 29, 2020 Author Share Posted January 29, 2020 9 hours ago, Arthurlie1981 said: I like the thinking outside the box but I don’t think it will happen in its current format as you have laid out. The additional costs for some clubs could be prohibitive, most 21s fund themselves but (certainly in our area) get discounted access to facilities due to them still being youth. There would be a number of issues relating to facilities etc that would need to be overcome Could you not just establish and amateur team for them to play in. We linked up with one in the past which allowed us to bring players up when needed? Good luck if your going to try it and if it flys would be interested to see how it works out. Our 21s are subscription members and pay the same as all other youth teams, if they go amateur they’ll be paying the same, there’s no discount, the Junior team pay the same amount for the facilities as all the other teams.. Rules can be written regarding facility for this league ie does it need to be totally blocked off, admission could be by donation 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibenji Posted January 29, 2020 Share Posted January 29, 2020 7 hours ago, clash city rocker said: Can just see Ardeer and Saltcoats voting to relegate themselves to a development league. Development teams in junior cup ? How exciting make up for losing Lithgae , Bo'ness etc. When a player reaches 21 he's developed enough , you go junior , you go anmie ,your a man. It’s a two way thing surely, it helps the the first team being able to have players to call upon and also allows fringe players to get playing time or those coming back from injury. surely it’s also an option to get your social club open on a Friday night, you might get 15-20 parents buying a few beers maybe they’ll sit on for a few hours after the game, maybe a couple of pies etc if you open a food outlet. Currently in England they are playing an u23s ‘professional development’ league. Some players could still develop to become junior players. Also stops teams having to Chuck in 17/18 year olds when injuries inevitably kick in Youth football stopping at 21 is something I presume predates my 30 year life time. Times have changed don’t see why we can’t be progressive and make things different how it used to be 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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