The Moonster Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 1 minute ago, Double Jack D said: You're probably right tbf.I meant clubs relegated or denied potential promotion however, with 8 games left this could include a lot of teams. I don't know the specifics of the rulebook but it either allows for early conclusion of the league or it doesn't. If it doesnt the season is void, if it does then current places should stand. Whatever happens, the games aint getting played. Aye, that's more my point, you'll have most clubs in the league system who are able to argue they could possibly have finished in X position and as such they should be compensated. With the SPFL already coming out and saying they don't have a penny extra to give, I just struggle to see where any compensation comes from. I doubt there is a rule specifically stating what to do here otherwise the decision would be made already. Just now, craigkillie said: If it's a choice between playing behind closed doors or not playing at all then I'd guess our clubs would think about it. They could probably make some money from streaming and the like. I agree it should be considered, but without the SPFL or a broadcaster providing the man power and equipment to stream all lower league games I don't think it's remotely workable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Just now, The Moonster said: Aye, that's more my point, you'll have most clubs in the league system who are able to argue they could possibly have finished in X position and as such they should be compensated. With the SPFL already coming out and saying they don't have a penny extra to give, I just struggle to see where any compensation comes from. I doubt there is a rule specifically stating what to do here otherwise the decision would be made already. Yeah, I was thinking more in the spirit of compromise and if we could get an acceptance that we need to finish where we are due to factors that nobody could control or have predicted. We either have a season that has meant something or we don't. I prefer the thought that what has been done so far would count for something (possibly biased, I'd readily admit). My thoughts In terms of compensation would be say 5% or so was skimmed off the prize money across the board next season and used to split between Hearts, Partick Thistle and Brechin to partly compensate for relegation. Everybody then shares a bit of the pain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 How can Brechin be relegated when we don't know who will be promoted? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champions Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Having thought about it more the fairest way would be to void the season, hopefully we can complete the games behind closed doors and avoid this scenario completely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoraith Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Still struggling to see how it’s fairer to ignore the 77% of the season that has been competed than the 23% of the season which has not. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 41 minutes ago, stevoraith said: Still struggling to see how it’s fairer to ignore the 77% of the season that has been competed than the 23% of the season which has not. Voiding the season wouldn't be "ignoring 77% of the season". It would be acknowledging that it wasn't possible to complete the competition fairly, so we're starting again. What you are advocating here is reward for "winning" 77% of the season. And I'll stress again, it's only Raith fans that seem to think not promoting them is the unfair thing here. It's telling. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 And I'll stress again, it's only Raith fans that seem to think not promoting them is the unfair thing here. It's telling. Let’s face it, every club is similar. I’ve seen the East Fife chairman wanting it reset to the end of Q3 so they can make the top 4 and fans wanting Q2 so they’re second, Hearts are threatening legal action if they get relegated while Hamilton sit quietly, happy to let things go. Brechin’s chairman says no relegation. Everyone will have an opinion based on their own circumstance, you can afford to take the moral high ground because it doesn’t matter a flying f**k to Dumbarton Personally I’m of the opinion we should promote in some manner if it isn’t possible to finish the season (which would be my first choice). Whether that’s league reconstruction, temporary or permanent, or just the champions, top 2, I don’t really care. But voiding the season altogether would be the bottom choice for me. I’d sooner begin next season with some convoluted play-offs to decide league standings rather than just saying it was all a waste of time and let’s start again. I’d also sooner end the season now than allow squads to be changed for the run-in, were we able to come back in June/July/August. And it’s easy to say now but I was absolutely terrified of playing Peterhead away because of this very reason. We would have a bitter taste but no complaints if we’d lost top spot and Falkirk went up. But, any solution is almost bound to infringe in some way on ‘sporting integrity’, any answer will piss off at least someone, and I’m glad I don’t have to make the decision. At least if we do void the season we aren’t Celtic/Dundee United/Cove who have utterly coasted it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevoraith Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Voiding the season wouldn't be "ignoring 77% of the season". It would be acknowledging that it wasn't possible to complete the competition fairly, so we're starting again. What you are advocating here is reward for "winning" 77% of the season. And I'll stress again, it's only Raith fans that seem to think not promoting them is the unfair thing here. It's telling.Semantics. It amounts to the same thing. Clubs have spent tens of thousands so far this season, supporters have spent hundreds, some players have suffered career threatening injuries. And you think the fairest thing is just to go “sorry lads, can we just pretend that didn’t happen and start again?”Of course Raith fans will be the strongest proponents of ending the season now. But had Falkirk or anyone else have been leading the league I’d have been pissed off and a bit bitter about it but I still think it would be the better solution than voiding the season. After all, the team that finishes in second wouldn’t get promoted, but they’d be in no worse a position than they would if the season was declared void. The only teams that could surely have a preference for voiding the season are those in the relegation spots. If there was any way of finishing this season before player contracts run out (or ensuring the same squads are maintained) then that is absolutely my preference, but if that’s not possible then the fairest way has to be to declare as-is. Whether you then do one up/one down or something more radical (eg two up and no relegation) would then be the next decision to be made. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirJimmyofNic Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 The season has to run to completion, the League Cup has already been won by the green half, I cant see them beig to happy about that being expunged from the records along with their league title. And what about Players who have had possible carrear ending injurys in a season thats counted for feck all . Teams who budgeted for a top four finish, losing out on the cash for that kind if finish, and possible promotion. Let the powers that be worry about next season , lets get this one finished first 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 40 minutes ago, Paco said: Let’s face it, every club is similar. I’ve seen the East Fife chairman wanting it reset to the end of Q3 so they can make the top 4 and fans wanting Q2 so they’re second, Hearts are threatening legal action if they get relegated while Hamilton sit quietly, happy to let things go. Brechin’s chairman says no relegation. Everyone will have an opinion based on their own circumstance, you can afford to take the moral high ground because it doesn’t matter a flying f**k to Dumbarton I could easily argue that Dumbarton can still make the top 4. We could simply argue we're entitled to the prize money we could have reached had we been allowed to finish our games. We aren't though, and our boards sole focus is on how the club can get through this period, not how we can profit or gain from it. I'm not taking any moral high ground, I'm just giving my opinion but it's interesting you think my stance is on morally higher ground. 9 minutes ago, stevoraith said: Clubs have spent tens of thousands so far this season, supporters have spent hundreds, some players have suffered career threatening injuries. And you think the fairest thing is just to go “sorry lads, can we just pretend that didn’t happen and start again?” Struggling with the importance of the "career threatening injuries" here. Are you saying the people who have suffered these injuries would feel better if the top team in each division was promoted? Every club and fan in the country has spent money they won't get back, the teams top of the league or bottom of the league are no different there. We can either get out our wee tiny violins and cry at the injustice of it all and demand "compensation", or accept that a global pandemic has fucked not only football but daily life in general and that perhaps a missing 28 football games isn't all that tragic. If every club comes out the other side of this in one piece, that's the most important thing for me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Double Jack D Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 4 minutes ago, The Moonster said: Voiding the season wouldn't be "ignoring 77% of the season". It would be acknowledging that it wasn't possible to complete the competition fairly, so we're starting again. What you are advocating here is reward for "winning" 77% of the season. And I'll stress again, it's only Raith fans that seem to think not promoting them is the unfair thing here. It's telling. I think either voiding the season or finishing it here could be classed as fair tbh, looking at it objectively. Genuinely not sure the authorities want the season to count for nothing though. However, that may end up being the only solution open to them. Regardless of the rules the very spirit of football is that if its not over the line then its not a goal, doesn't matter what prevented it. I feel cheated out of a title race that I'm confident we would've prevailed on, cant put a price on that.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggerG Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Roll out the old pools panel and let them determine what results would have been likely. I've checked and reckon we would win it on goal difference! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Life on Marrs? Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 I dont know the best way forward, initally I though end it now Celtic, Utd, Raith, Cove champions. Realistically, too many minefields etc. The best way of course is to find a way to complete the fixtures somehow. Do away with league & challenge cups for a season, some clubs could use meaningless matches as pre season, that'd free up 8 or 9 slots? If a horse race or marathon isn't completed for whatever reason, we don't say give 1st place to who was in front at the time. Null and void could be the only option in the end. Will it be our own blazers who will decide, or will uefa or fifa make that decision? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 8 hours ago, AB1974 said: I was actually thinking along the same lines, although i thought 3 x16 with more clubs joining. That way most teams with shout of promotion get it (in some form) and nobody gets relegated Clubs dont.usually vote for anything that dilutes the prize money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 4 hours ago, stevoraith said: Still struggling to see how it’s fairer to ignore the 77% of the season that has been competed than the 23% of the season which has not. You would struggle because you’re a Raith supporter. Simple. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 Are we really saying that career threatening injuries are somehow mitigated as long as there's promotion and relegation? There are leagues / seasons where there are no promotion and/or relegation. There are cup competitions with neither of these things. Of course it'll be deeply unsatisfying if there's no conclusion to this season but it won't make it any more satisfying to do a musical chairs type 'champions when the music stops'. If this season can't be completed, none of the leagues will really have champions however it's handled. If East Fife happened to be top right now, you can bet I'd be trying to find every argument I could come up with to justify some sort of promotion based on that. A football season's like a university degree, not a survey. If you complete the first 3 years but can't finish the 4th year, you're not given a degree based on what you did during the first 75%. Actually, just for a laugh, let's make a league based on results from Q2 and 3 and promote Montrose as champions. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonD Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 If the current standings were declared as final, Partick in particular would feel aggrieved - they're two points behind QOS but have a game in hand over them so could justifiably claim they hadn't had the same opportunity to gather points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 35 minutes ago, Gordon EF said: Are we really saying that career threatening injuries are somehow mitigated as long as there's promotion and relegation? There are leagues / seasons where there are no promotion and/or relegation. There are cup competitions with neither of these things. Of course it'll be deeply unsatisfying if there's no conclusion to this season but it won't make it any more satisfying to do a musical chairs type 'champions when the music stops'. If this season can't be completed, none of the leagues will really have champions however it's handled. If East Fife happened to be top right now, you can bet I'd be trying to find every argument I could come up with to justify some sort of promotion based on that. A football season's like a university degree, not a survey. If you complete the first 3 years but can't finish the 4th year, you're not given a degree based on what you did during the first 75%. Actually, just for a laugh, let's make a league based on results from Q2 and 3 and promote Montrose as champions. Wouldn't you just get an ordinary degree without the honours bit? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartcraig Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 20 minutes ago, renton said: Wouldn't you just get an ordinary degree without the honours bit? Yeah but that's pretty much just a participation trophy. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 18, 2020 Share Posted March 18, 2020 It’s actually a dreadful analogy as there’s every chance school pupils will be given ‘expected’ exam results in lieu of actually sitting them! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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