Pull My Strings Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, rainbowrising said: I'm all for change. People that say we cant call the season now come up with the most esoteric reasons all in the name of fairness. The problem is fairness seems to have about 20 possible outcomes. And most involve the SPFL having to vote to change either in the future or right now in this phoney-war season end. Our board better have a really good solution to propose other than saying it's no fair. Dundee's position is that they want the money which comes with finishing third but don't want anything else to be decided according to the in-play positions of the other teams. Hypocritical self-serving bollocks dressed up as principle. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: Is there really anyone proposing that funds be distributed evenly amongst Championship clubs? I'm talking of the pot shared between all 4 leagues. We keep reading how finishing a season early has to done due to extraordinary circumstance etc.. but we can't pay folk a fair share because we definitely 100% have to abide by the rules and you need to have a position before you get paid. It's bullying bullshit and as I've said, numerous times, if clubs go to the wall it's completely down to the governing body. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArabFundamentalist Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Pull My Strings said: Dundee's position is that they want the money which comes with finishing third but don't want anything else to be decided according to the in-play positions of the other teams. Hypocritical self-serving bollocks dressed up as principle. In other words they want to have their cake and eat it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Just now, Dele said: I'm talking of the pot shared between all 4 leagues. We keep reading how finishing a season early has to done due to extraordinary circumstance etc.. but we can't pay folk a fair share because we definitely 100% have to abide by the rules and you need to have a position before you get paid. It's bullying bullshit and as I've said, numerous times, if clubs go to the wall it's completely down to the governing body. You seriously think the Premiership clubs with all their overheads and wage budgets (which certainly won't be covered by any furlough scheme) are going to give up MILLIONS to be shared out evenly across 42 clubs. I assume that's a wind up? Surely. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 17 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: Yeah but why don't they just dish out the cash? We can worry about who gets what later (after it's been dished out and spent). That presumes that no more football is going to be played otherwise you'd want to hold off until the season is finished because payouts will change. In which case a decision needs to be made as to what happens with promotion/relegation - which is what the vote was about. Shame one club couldn't get their shit together to actually contribute to a decision on the question. That's not an argument to vote for the proposed solution incidentally, just an argument to actually vote. There are other solutions but it's probably prudent to get the governing body's preferred outcome out of the way first before we move onto the next possible option. No more games are going to get played. Football will be off for a long time yet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Dele said: I'm talking of the pot shared between all 4 leagues. We keep reading how finishing a season early has to done due to extraordinary circumstance etc.. but we can't pay folk a fair share because we definitely 100% have to abide by the rules and you need to have a position before you get paid. It's bullying bullshit and as I've said, numerous times, if clubs go to the wall it's completely down to the governing body. I bet you are. Why the f**k would the top flight share their cash with those lower down the pyramid?Typical Dundee. Grubbing b*****ds. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, Yenitit said: No more games are going to get played. Football will be off for a long time yet Yes, well spotted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Flash Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: As already noted they have already done this. The money paid two weeks ago effectively brought us to that position. Everyone has been paid (within a few grand) what the bottom place club will get already. Again whit? I'm not you actually grasp this. Sharing payments evenly is certainly a valid option (and a significant suggestion for a supporter of a club due to get the vast majority of the League's income outside Dundee United (the amount due to United and ICT will be more than the amount due to everyone else added together I'd think). But it would need another vote to change the rules and I genuinely don't see there being much support for it. Inevitably half the clubs in each League would be worse off and half better off so the chances of getting a 75% acceptance are pretty low. I think he means share the money out now based on current league positions and the resumption of football or a later vote would only be to decide promotion and relegation, not prize money. Edited April 11, 2020 by Flash 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: Yes, well spotted. I got the impression you thought football would be up and running in the next 2-3 months. My bad. Edited April 11, 2020 by Yenitit 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Bliss Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Flash said: I think he means share the money out now based on current league positions and a later vote would only be to decide promotion and relegation, not prize money. Changed it for you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dee Man Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said: Shame one club couldn't get their shit together to actually contribute to a decision on the question. Shame on me for taking this low quality bait, but just in case anyone reading genuinely believes that this is the case, the SPFL, to the surprise of no-one, have managed to make a monumental f**k up of a simple voting process and have left John Nelms in a unique negotiating position which he wasn't expecting, but one which he is going to take full advantage of. Understandably fans and board members of other clubs are nervous about him ultimately having that much power but that's not Dundee's problem. Deal with it. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: You seriously think the Premiership clubs Where did I say that? If everyone wants to see all the clubs survive and not be bullied into accepting a part played season - split the money more evenly. The rich stay rich - the poor stay in business. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Look, it's this simple. We're not playing any more games this season. Everyone accepts that. There's absolutely no appetite within the game for delaying or reducing the following season to finish this one. Again everyone pretty much accepts that if we can't get playing again by June it's not finishing and the Govt has already confirmed we're not playing again before mid July at best. All of the prize money / funds of the SPFL have already been paid up to the extent that the bottom place funding in each division (plus the three sides guaranteed to be top six in the Premiership have been paid money for 6th spot). Under the existing rules the only way to release the rest of the funds is to finalise the positions one way or another. You could of course do so in a number of ways (tables as they stand, tables on average points (which is what we just voted on), tables at the halfway point or 3/4 point (although there are o/s fixtures in those), etc). We do not need to agree promotion and relegation scenarios at the same time as finalising positions of course but the two probably should be considered together as otherwise you potentially get clubs accepting positions which may later be regretted if a different scheme of promotion or reconstruction is introduced. There could be a proposal to distribute the remaining funds on some other model but it seems unlikely that would achieve a 75% majority as half the clubs would be disadvantaged by it. Inverness can be as magnanimous as they like while "on one knee" but I don't see another 10 or 11 clubs thinking the same way. They could pay out the prize money based on current positions but then if some other solution in declaring final positions is arrived at you'd be snookered. Null and void is not on the table. There are commercial reasons why it can't happen. That's where we are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Flash said: I think he means share the money out now based on current league positions and the resumption of football would only be to decide promotion and relegation, not prize money. Yeah, of course he means that. If football's going to resume though surely you need to hold onto the performance related payouts until the final positions are known. If football isn't going to resume for the foreseeable (which it clearly isn't) and you're going to accept the in-play positions for performance related payouts then it behooves everyone to also make a decision on the issue of promotion/relegation. If nothing's going to change then a decision needs to be made. It's pure cant to ask for money to be paid based on current position without making a decision on the inevitable question of promotion/relegation which follows from that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, Dele said: Where did I say that? Just here 16 minutes ago, Dele said: I'm talking of the pot shared between all 4 leagues. We keep reading how finishing a season early has to done due to extraordinary circumstance etc.. but we can't pay folk a fair share because we definitely 100% have to abide by the rules and you need to have a position before you get paid. It's bullying bullshit and as I've said, numerous times, if clubs go to the wall it's completely down to the governing body. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pull My Strings Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Dee Man said: Shame on me for taking this low quality bait, but just in case anyone reading genuinely believes that this is the case, the SPFL, to the surprise of no-one, have managed to make a monumental f**k up of a simple voting process and have left John Nelms in a unique negotiating position which he wasn't expecting, but one which he is going to take full advantage of. Understandably fans and board members of other clubs are nervous about him ultimately having that much power but that's not Dundee's problem. Deal with it. Jesus wept. Just in case any fucking idiots were still peddling the "greater good" line here you go. Edit: Truth be told, I'm struggling to see what sort of advantage Nelms even thinks he can spin by leveraging his f**k up. Any substantive change to the proposal will require a new vote which puts him back in the same position as everyone else. If he's really holding off on resubmitting his negative vote because he thinks he's inadvertently stumbled into a strong negotiating position then you've got to question his understanding of the process. Maybe it's more base than that and he just wants someone to promise to be nice to his club. As Dee Man points out, it's pretty tawdry either way. Edited April 11, 2020 by Pull My Strings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Also we keep hearing of clubs being desperate for cash. But why? I appreciate its trying times, but with furlough and other government schemes + fan fundraising are clubs that far away from where they would have been? With all non-position payments payed then surely whilst it would be nice nobody is that reliant on final league payments? Are clubs genuinely saying if they had a bad season and finished further down the table than planned they’d go bust? Clubs have had 1 or 2 home games cancelled so far and wouldn’t be expecting the spfl cash for a while yet. Even without government/fan support this isn’t exactly an hit that can’t be absorbed? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dundeeunited83 Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 Dundee partick and Inverness all in a group chat with each other, know one else was in the group chat let’s be honest and Dundee have pulled the plug what a laugh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derry Alli Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said: Just here You're assuming. I've never once said that they'd be asked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted April 11, 2020 Share Posted April 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, parsforlife said: Also we keep hearing of clubs being desperate for cash. But why? I appreciate its trying times, but with furlough and other government schemes + fan fundraising are clubs that far away from where they would have been? With all non-position payments payed then surely whilst it would be nice nobody is that reliant on final league payments? Are clubs genuinely saying if they had a bad season and finished further down the table than planned they’d go bust? Clubs have had 1 or 2 home games cancelled so far and wouldn’t be expecting the spfl cash for a while yet. Even without government/fan support this isn’t exactly an hit that can’t be absorbed? Can't comment on specific clubs but a couple of points of note would be: The furlough scheme is great but it needs to be funded for about 6 weeks before any money is seen from the Govt. They are trying to get it sorted out for refunds to be made by the end of April but that still means every club is covering 6 weeks wages in full or at least 80% while they wait for it. Also, the maximum value of the furlough probably means all the top division clubs and the top 3 or 4 payers in the Championship are not properly covered by it. Clubs also probably still have some ongoing liabilities such as utility bills etc to cover. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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