roman_bairn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 What proposal is there that won't have unfairness? I agree that realistically they always had to go to a vote and the board making a unilateral decision would have been an awful look causing more of a PR disaster than the shambles we ended up with over Dundee's vote. However kvz2000 is clinging to the idea that the vote was compromised, this somehow means Stanraer's relegation is invalid and we're going to end up with no promotion and relegation. All because Stranraer fans are concerned about fairness of course, and they wouldn't see anything unfair about no promotion or relegation if they were in Cove's position. Considering that there was no requirement under the rules to even hold a vote in the first place, it doesn't follow that there's some sort of smoking gun here which makes the overturning of the decision to call the leagues as they stand inevitable. It's highly unlikely that there's a way out of relegation for anyone other than reconstruction.Agree. There is NO solution that anyone can come up with that makes every club happy. There are ways that it can be made fairer than the current proposal though. I suggested something in an earlier post re keeping playoffs in place and rather than it involving the second bottom team, making the bottom team playoff against the teams in positions 2-4 in the divisions below. Even that’s not entirely fair either and of course we have the significant constraint of COVID and when these games could ever be played, contracts etc..Nevertheless, having a voting system where there is a lack of clarity or transparency, or situations where one club can hold everyone to ransom for their own ends, can hardly be described as a fair vote..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde01 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I suggested something in an earlier post re keeping playoffs in place and rather than it involving the second bottom team, making the bottom team playoff against the teams in positions 2-4 in the divisions below. But the bottom teams place in the division has already been taken by the champions of the league below. So you would end up with 1 extra team from your playoff winner.Eg raith are promoted.Thistle, Falkirk, airdrie, Montrose playoff for a promotion slot. We now have 11 teams in the championship. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 But the bottom teams place in the division has already been taken by the champions of the league below. So you would end up with 1 extra team from your playoff winner.Eg raith are promoted.Thistle, Falkirk, airdrie, Montrose playoff for a promotion slot. We now have 11 teams in the championship.Mere details...[emoji16] 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 19 minutes ago, roman_bairn said: Nevertheless, having a voting system where there is a lack of clarity or transparency, or situations where one club can hold everyone to ransom for their own ends, can hardly be described as a fair vote..... What is the end game in all this though? A no vote wasn’t simply a null and void vote, it was just a vote to kick it down the road a bit and see if we can maybe restart later was it not? So if this vote is now determined to be ‘tainted’ then won’t it just be re-done without interference and then we probably get the same outcome anyway? Dont get me wrong, it was a total shambles, but I just don’t see what we are going to change with an enquiry (league structure wise, we might get Doncaster out which would be a bonus). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 @Alert Mongoose - please post the names of your Reader's Wives types. It took me all of thirty seconds to find out who Sam Lily is and discover the type of filth she produced for the internet. Some of don't have that kind of time. Thank you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 17 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: @Alert Mongoose - please post the names of your Reader's Wives types. It took me all of thirty seconds to find out who Sam Lily is and discover the type of filth she produced for the internet. Some of don't have that kind of time. Thank you. Say what now? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFC1878 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 But the bottom teams place in the division has already been taken by the champions of the league below.Has it though? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 What is the end game in all this though? A no vote wasn’t simply a null and void vote, it was just a vote to kick it down the road a bit and see if we can maybe restart later was it not? So if this vote is now determined to be ‘tainted’ then won’t it just be re-done without interference and then we probably get the same outcome anyway? Dont get me wrong, it was a total shambles, but I just don’t see what we are going to change with an enquiry (league structure wise, we might get Doncaster out which would be a bonus).I’m certainly not arguing that we reverse the vote. Just highlighting that things could have been done better (obviously not using my proposal though[emoji16]). So I’d like to think an enquiry might right a few wrongs re any future votes.Honestly, by giving clubs a democratic vote on these matters, we have created a bigger hornets nest and I’d prefer the old SFA style with a committee of non club associated people making decisions like these. Not going to happen though.I’m not even an advocate of reconstruction even though my club will benefit. I don’t think the current structure is perfect, but I think it’s better than anything else I’ve seen to date.... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond10 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I would argue even 3rd in a 10 team league shouldn't be in play off. I've liked the introduction of the play offs and would like them to stay but IMO in a 10 team league it should just be 2nd top v 2nd bottom in league above.I agree with this that season Brechin went up to the championship they finished 4th behind us and Alloa having lost more games than they won. Mental. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Burton Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Has it though?Yes, for the vote on reconstruction Cove will be voting as a league 1 team and Stranraer league 2. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 53 minutes ago, ribzanelli said: What is the end game in all this though? A no vote wasn’t simply a null and void vote, it was just a vote to kick it down the road a bit and see if we can maybe restart later was it not? So if this vote is now determined to be ‘tainted’ then won’t it just be re-done without interference and then we probably get the same outcome anyway? Dont get me wrong, it was a total shambles, but I just don’t see what we are going to change with an enquiry (league structure wise, we might get Doncaster out which would be a bonus). Surely an enquiry is required to make sure the same feck up shambles doesnt happen again. An enquiry might well have been avoided if it hadn't been for the spfl's piss poor attempts to brush things under the carpet with their nothing to see here policy. It's taken weeks before we actually got some admittance that it had been a complete mess and that's just from the board members. Nothing still from the ceo and his crew of complete arseholes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribzanelli Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 10 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Surely an enquiry is required to make sure the same feck up shambles doesnt happen again. An enquiry might well have been avoided if it hadn't been for the spfl's piss poor attempts to brush things under the carpet with their nothing to see here policy. It's taken weeks before we actually got some admittance that it had been a complete mess and that's just from the board members. Nothing still from the ceo and his crew of complete arseholes. I’m all for an enquiry, it will allow them to learn from mistakes and hopefully be a better organisation going forward. I just feel some people think an enquiry will somehow overturn the vote and replace it with null and void and I don’t see how that outcome could come about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggerG Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Inquiry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 26 minutes ago, Diamond10 said: I agree with this that season Brechin went up to the championship they finished 4th behind us and Alloa having lost more games than they won. Mental. We'd also just battered then 6-0 a few weeks prior. We all knew the rules at the start, but Brechin were the only ones who could do what was necessary when it mattered, so they deserved it. I've never been a fan of play-offs on principle, but it's undeniable that it keeps the league interesting, so the trade-off is worth it IMO. Think of the league as a qualifying round for the play-offs, if you like. In fact, considering there's absolutely no chance of anyone other than Celtic and (possibly, one day) Rangers ever being Scottish champions again, there should be a play-off tournament for the title. That's a dead league, as things stand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Scary Bear said: Say what now? Have you missed Alert Mongoose's lockdown nursetravaganza? Edit: oh, I got my threads mixed up. Sorry. Thankfully he'll get the message regardless. Edited April 29, 2020 by BigFatTabbyDave 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaggerG Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 12 minutes ago, BigFatTabbyDave said: We'd also just battered then 6-0 a few weeks prior. We all knew the rules at the start, but Brechin were the only ones who could do what was necessary when it mattered, so they deserved it. I've never been a fan of play-offs on principle, but it's undeniable that it keeps the league interesting, so the trade-off is worth it IMO. Think of the league as a qualifying round for the play-offs, if you like. In fact, considering there's absolutely no chance of anyone other than Celtic and (possibly, one day) Rangers ever being Scottish champions again, there should be a play-off tournament for the title. That's a dead league, as things stand. Let's face it; they should just have a series of play-offs between them from the season start and f**k the rest of us. Would keep everyone happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFC1878 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Yes, for the vote on reconstruction Cove will be voting as a league 1 team and Stranraer league 2. For the purposes of the vote, which doesn’t really matter anyway as the L1/L2 vote is combined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haufdaft Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Dont get me wrong, it was a total shambles, but I just don’t see what we are going to change with an enquiry (league structure wise, we might get Doncaster out which would be a bonus). According to the SPFL "independent inquiry" the voting procedure was perfect. Added to their rant of a document today we need a truly independent inquiry into their shambolic (and corrupt?) governance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roman_bairn Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 According to the SPFL "independent inquiry" the voting procedure was perfect. Added to their rant of a document today we need a truly independent inquiry into their shambolic (and corrupt?) governance. I wonder who footed the bill for Deloitte’s rather heftily priced independent enquiry?… 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haufdaft Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Q - “Looking back, what would you have done differently?”A - “In relation to the Dundee FC return, there was little, if anything we could have done differently...”[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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