The SPFL vote vote

[Romeo]

Absolutely serious suggestion.
The meeting should be broadcast live. No more he says, she says. Say your bit, produce your evidence and deal with the response.

PPV?

Could bankroll the Scottish game for years to come.

[Ric]

16 minutes ago, Sergeant Wilson said:

Absolutely serious suggestion.

The meeting should be broadcast live. No more he says, she says. Say your bit, produce your evidence and deal with the response.

The question is where would it be "played", I'm sure some wag would claim there is a "home team" bias.

[andrewh]

I’m not averse to pragmatism. I understand clubs acting in self interest. I agree it is unfair to relegate Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer.

I don’t accept the inept handling of this vote where Dundee think they are in some position of power, and are subject to approaches from hitters great or small. Might the hitters include the OF and tv companies?

The SPFL officials, journalists, tv and OF (anyone I’ve missed out too) are a mix of incompetence and fraudulence.

Is there a point at which we, the fans, decide we’ve had enough of decades of this and walk away (even if we don’t do walking away)?

 

[bennett]

1 hour ago, frankthetank22 said:

My initial belief whilst listening to the story unfold yesterday was it must be Sky pulling the strings of Doncaster to wrap things up early so that Sky's new contract (does it start next season?) has a better chance of a clean start on the scheduled date. Sky are a devious bunch of cretins who imo have a complete disregard to Scottish football so with their financial power they'd be willing to manipulate (using Doncaster as a pupet) any situation to their benefit. 

As much as i don't trust Lawwell and believe that he'd destroy Scottish football at a whim, i just can't see what celtic have to gain from pushing through a vote to stop the season now.

Am i missing something, why would Lawwell/celtic threaten to withhold £ from struggling clubs to push this through? 

I'm all for dispersing the money to the clubs, whether it be 80% of it or the whole lot based on current positions. Any amounts payed out extra can be adjusted from future payments made next season but the important thing is that we don't lose clubs due to this situation. 

The rush to get this through and the means used to do this has drawn more attention to it, the strange thing is that Lawwell/celtic are usually more savvy than this.

The bullying and coercion does smack of desperation. 

 

1 hour ago, Romeo said:

If some papers are to be believed The Rangers refusing to hand over their"evidence" until there's a inquiry,

Hi Neil here's our grievance against you and Rodney,  I'm sure you'll deal with it with the utmost urgency. 

8 hours ago, Ric said:

I mean you are right, I do support St Mirren, but to try and make this out to be a self interest thing is considerably misguided, but I'll go on the assumption you haven't read a single comment of the 6 odd replies stating that if St Mirren were in the same place I'd accept relegation.

The league isn't being finished, contracts will run out, these are not normal times and non-normal solutions are required.

Hearts are where they are because they didn't get more points than the team(s) above them when the league was suspended. I'm sure as a Rangers fan you can appreciate how that feels.

 

The amount of posts you've made and their content literally shows your self interest.

 

You don't want your team relegated, its understandable. 

[Ric]

1 minute ago, bennett said:

The amount of posts you've made and their content literally shows your self interest.

"There are none so blind as those who won't see."

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion however wrong that opinion is.

 

[Billy Jean King]

Doncaster has been a disaster from start to finish but Rangers calling for him to be suspended on the basis of evidence they are unwilling to put into the public domain is as bad as most of the shite Doncaster has subjected us to.
Get the smoking gun to feck and if you have the ammo to bin him then for the good of everyone in Scottish football get it out there and get the process started.

[GordonD]

I'm surprised it's Dundee who have allegedly fucked up here.

It's usually Celtic who have trouble with pdf files.

[Pet Jeden]

2 hours ago, frankthetank22 said:

My initial belief whilst listening to the story unfold yesterday was it must be Sky pulling the strings of Doncaster to wrap things up early so that Sky's new contract (does it start next season?) has a better chance of a clean start on the scheduled date. Sky are a devious bunch of cretins who imo have a complete disregard to Scottish football so with their financial power they'd be willing to manipulate (using Doncaster as a pupet) any situation to their benefit. 

As much as i don't trust Lawwell and believe that he'd destroy Scottish football at a whim, i just can't see what celtic have to gain from pushing through a vote to stop the season now.

Am i missing something, why would Lawwell/celtic threaten to withhold £ from struggling clubs to push this through? 

I'm all for dispersing the money to the clubs, whether it be 80% of it or the whole lot based on current positions. Any amounts payed out extra can be adjusted from future payments made next season but the important thing is that we don't lose clubs due to this situation. 

Maybe Celtic are just neutral bystanders in this vote, But if not, 2 possible reasons would be

1. Maybe they believe Rangers are financially on the edge of a cliff and just can’t resist creeping up and giving a wee nudge.

2. This decision now would kill off the obvious risk of a null and void decision later in the year if this thing drags on.

Persuading key board members to come up with a resolution that withholds prize monies until small skint teams vote to kill off null and void as an option, could achieve this.

[The Bunk]

Possible solution to everything, involving reconstruction, a little football and (hopefully) a lot of fairness:

Structure 2020-21 onwards

12P, 12C, 20L1. If next season is curtailed, prem and champ can play home and away for a 22 games season. League 1 teams can play each other once only for a 19 game season.

1st and 2nd in L1 are promoted automatically and 3rd-7th enter a 6 team playoff, in a similar format as the national league playoff in England.  19th and 20th are automatically relegated and replaced by the winners of the Lowland and Highland leagues. 17th and 18th enter 2-leg playoffs against geographically matched runners up from the lowland and highland leagues.

11th and 12th in the championship are relegated. 10th enter the aforementioned 6 team playoff and are ranked number 1 or 2. Championship promotion and premiership relegation arrangements can remain as they are, although this might be an opportunity to make them more fair.

 

2019-20 Promotion and relegation - 1 week football festival in July

Highland and Lowland league champions join the new L1(20-21), along with all current L2 teams and 5th-10th in the current L1(19-20).  3rd and 4th in current L1 join 9th and 10th in the current championship to contest a world cup-style playoff group, with the top 2 joining the 20-21 championship and the bottom 2 joining the 20-21 L1. 1st and 2nd in the current L1 join the 20-21 Championship.

The current championship leaders join the 20-21 premiership and the clubs currently 2-4th in the championship enter the premiership playoffs in the usual way, except ties are one-off matches.

The remaining pre-split premiership fixtures are played (simultaneously with the initial premiership playoff ties) and 12th place is relegated and 11th enter the premiership playoffs in the normal way, although their tie will be a single match.

Infection concerns

A limited number of matches, mostly involving professional teams, over a short period post NHS emergency status seems like an achievable goal. Matches would be behind closed doors but broadcasted, with free TV access for tier 1 key workers and season ticket holders as applicable. Clubs should enter a 14 day pre-season secure facility, with each individual subject to a virus test before entry. Individuals would be tested again on the day of each match. If an individual tests positive on match day, the club forfeit the match, since it will be the club’s responsibility to secure their 14 day pre-season venue. If individuals test positive from both teams, the match is declared 0-0. If this happens in a playoff match, the higher ranked team advance. Matches could take place in a limited number of venues to reduce the required number of medical staff and officials.

 

There are probably unforeseen holes (maybe too kind to 2nd place in current L1), so please point them out.

 

[Guts]

5 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Maybe Celtic are just neutral bystanders in this vote, But if not, 2 possible reasons would be

1. Maybe they believe Rangers are financially on the edge of a cliff and just can’t resist creeping up and giving a wee nudge.

2. This decision now would kill off the obvious risk of a null and void decision later in the year if this thing drags on.

Persuading key board members to come up with a resolution that withholds prize monies until small skint teams vote to kill off null and void as an option, could achieve this.

The first point makes no sense as having a Rangers of some sort is good for business.

The second point would make sense. Lawwell would be well within his right to have a word and try and persuade the vote the same way other chairmen can call each other up and try and vote together to prevent it. Celtic would be right to feel aggrieved if they don't get the title if games can't be completed. The same way Thistle and Hearts would be aggrieved for being relegated. I think they need to find a way to complete the games, a closed door 2/3 games schedule to cram them in.

Ending season now but awarding money based on position is laughable,  would be better to spread money out equally if the null and void thing happened.

[Lobby Dossar]

14 minutes ago, The Bunk said:

Possible solution to everything, involving reconstruction, a little football and (hopefully) a lot of fairness:

Structure 2020-21 onwards

12P, 12C, 20L1. If next season is curtailed, prem and champ can play home and away for a 22 games season. League 1 teams can play each other once only for a 19 game season.

1st and 2nd in L1 are promoted automatically and 3rd-7th enter a 6 team playoff, in a similar format as the national league playoff in England.  19th and 20th are automatically relegated and replaced by the winners of the Lowland and Highland leagues. 17th and 18th enter 2-leg playoffs against geographically matched runners up from the lowland and highland leagues.

11th and 12th in the championship are relegated. 10th enter the aforementioned 6 team playoff and are ranked number 1 or 2. Championship promotion and premiership relegation arrangements can remain as they are, although this might be an opportunity to make them more fair.

 

2019-20 Promotion and relegation - 1 week football festival in July

Highland and Lowland league champions join the new L1(20-21), along with all current L2 teams and 5th-10th in the current L1(19-20).  3rd and 4th in current L1 join 9th and 10th in the current championship to contest a world cup-style playoff group, with the top 2 joining the 20-21 championship and the bottom 2 joining the 20-21 L1. 1st and 2nd in the current L1 join the 20-21 Championship.

The current championship leaders join the 20-21 premiership and the clubs currently 2-4th in the championship enter the premiership playoffs in the usual way, except ties are one-off matches.

The remaining pre-split premiership fixtures are played (simultaneously with the initial premiership playoff ties) and 12th place is relegated and 11th enter the premiership playoffs in the normal way, although their tie will be a single match.

Infection concerns

A limited number of matches, mostly involving professional teams, over a short period post NHS emergency status seems like an achievable goal. Matches would be behind closed doors but broadcasted, with free TV access for tier 1 key workers and season ticket holders as applicable. Clubs should enter a 14 day pre-season secure facility, with each individual subject to a virus test before entry. Individuals would be tested again on the day of each match. If an individual tests positive on match day, the club forfeit the match, since it will be the club’s responsibility to secure their 14 day pre-season venue. If individuals test positive from both teams, the match is declared 0-0. If this happens in a playoff match, the higher ranked team advance. Matches could take place in a limited number of venues to reduce the required number of medical staff and officials.

 

There are probably unforeseen holes (maybe too kind to 2nd place in current L1), so please point them out.

 

Question … … … where are we getting all these testing kits from????

Overpaid prima donars should be at the bottom of the pile for testing 

[LincolnHearts]

28 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Maybe Celtic are just neutral bystanders in this vote, But if not, 2 possible reasons would be

1. Maybe they believe Rangers are financially on the edge of a cliff and just can’t resist creeping up and giving a wee nudge.

2. This decision now would kill off the obvious risk of a null and void decision later in the year if this thing drags on.

Persuading key board members to come up with a resolution that withholds prize monies until small skint teams vote to kill off null and void as an option, could achieve this.

Lets not pretend this is something it isn't.

Lawwell and Celtic are the puppet-masters and are up to their necks in it.

Whatever Rangers have up their sleeve could make things interesting in the next week. 

[Guest JTS98]

3 hours ago, Frank Grimes said:

Yeah but it’s hard to buy 

What makes Partick etc so special that he’d happily deny his and dozens of other clubs badly needed finance?

His “principles” may see Partick spared from an unjust relegation and that’s ok even if a couple of clubs go to the wall?

I’m not really arguing whether he was right or wrong to reject the proposal but I’m just not buying the reasoning, it doesn’t quite add up 

I thought his point was fairly clear.

He said ICT were opposed to clubs being relegated and suffering the consequent financial damage, job losses, pay-cuts that entails when they hadn't actually been relegated.

He went on to say he saw no reason for these extremely drastic consequences for certain clubs to be linked to all of the clubs receiving their money. He said he had brought this up in SPFL meetings and had not been given a satisfactory answer as to why the two things were linked.

ICT believe the money can be paid out without arbitrary financial hardship being imposed on certain clubs and those employed by those clubs.

It seems pretty clear to me.

[Pet Jeden]

19 minutes ago, Guts said:

The first point makes no sense as having a Rangers of some sort is good for business.

The second point would make sense. Lawwell would be well within his right to have a word and try and persuade the vote the same way other chairmen can call each other up and try and vote together to prevent it. Celtic would be right to feel aggrieved if they don't get the title if games can't be completed. The same way Thistle and Hearts would be aggrieved for being relegated. I think they need to find a way to complete the games, a closed door 2/3 games schedule to cram them in.

Ending season now but awarding money based on position is laughable,  would be better to spread money out equally if the null and void thing happened.

Yes, but ideally weak. A sort of Liverpool-Everton relationship?

[Ric]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

ICT believe the money can be paid out without arbitrary financial hardship being imposed on certain clubs and those employed by those clubs.

So we are to provide the money based on league position, but don't promote/relegate based on league position?

I appreciate there is no mutual exclusivity here, but it does sound like the old "have cake and eat it".

[The Bunk]

11 minutes ago, Lobby Dossar said:

Question … … … where are we getting all these testing kits from????

Overpaid prima donars should be at the bottom of the pile for testing 

Good question. The kits wouldn't come from NHS resources, I imagine the league would buy them (probably from South Korea) and they would be administered by club medical staff. This would be in the period after NHS scotland is no longer on an emergency footing.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Ric said:

So we are to provide the money based on league position, but don't promote/relegate based on league position?

I appreciate there is no mutual exclusivity here, but it does sound like the old "have cake and eat it".

These are unusual times. Nobody is advocating making this a regular event.

No clubs asked for this.

Why shouldn't the money be paid out? It belongs to the clubs.

And why should Hearts/Thistle/Stranraer have pretty severe financial hits imposed on them without having had the chance to avoid it on the pitch?

There's no perfect answer here, but the ICT position is perfectly valid morally and intellectually.

[Ric]

Just now, JTS98 said:

These are unusual times. Nobody is advocating making this a regular event.

There's no perfect answer here, but the ICT position is perfectly valid morally and intellectually.

For the first, sure, the second you know my opinion on that, although again I need to stress this isn't a dig at ICT directly or Gardiner.

[Pet Jeden]

2 minutes ago, LincolnHearts said:

Lets not pretend this is something it isn't.

Lawwell and Celtic are the puppet-masters and are up to their necks in it.

Whatever Rangers have up their sleeve could make things interesting in the next week. 

Who knows. But there will be enough in that fck-up of a vote to keep good lawyers busy for months (when courts are operating again) and who knows what improprieties might be revealed with probing. I hope Partick, Hearts, Falkirk, Stranraer as well as Rangers have the balls to go in hard on this. Two very interesting things about the Murdoch McLennan statement:-

1. It is his personal statement. It does not appear to be agreed by or issued on behalf of the board. Why not?

2. Basically, the statement just says "prove it". I would have expected a Chairman, confident of the processes that took place, to express his confidence in his Chief Exec's and organisations actions. He might not have been present and had had only a day to quiz Doncaster. But that lack of support for Doncaster and the vote smells odd.

[frankthetank22]

9 minutes ago, Pet Jeden said:

Who knows. But there will be enough in that fck-up of a vote to keep good lawyers busy for months (when courts are operating again) and who knows what improprieties might be revealed with probing. I hope Partick, Hearts, Falkirk, Stranraer as well as Rangers have the balls to go in hard on this. Two very interesting things about the Murdoch McLennan statement:-

1. It is his personal statement. It does not appear to be agreed by or issued on behalf of the board. Why not?

2. Basically, the statement just says "prove it". I would have expected a Chairman, confident of the processes that took place, to express his confidence in his Chief Exec's and organisations actions. He might not have been present and had had only a day to quiz Doncaster. But that lack of support for Doncaster and the vote smells odd.

 

As chairman of the SPFL it is strange that Murdoch McLennan is issuing personal statements, and not officially defending his organisation or welcoming an investigation as I'd expect a chairman to do.

His long history within the press/media and particularly the INM group suggests to me that he's up to his neck in underhand dealings. 

What a great opportunity to be shot of Doncaster and McLennan.