League Reconstruction 20/21 season

[ahemps]

41 minutes ago, Lebowski said:

1 hour ago, DAVIDB69 said:

Resuming the Scottish cup is to get Celtic a treble nothing more , if they had exited they were be no talk of the Scottish cup resuming

That is utter nonsense. The SFA want the cup to go ahead because they can't afford the hit of not having around 140-150k fans buying tickets for the three remaining games. The clubs remaining in it will all be in line for around half a million each just from the gate receipts from the semi finals. Cancelling it means refunding the sponsor and broadcasters.

Will there be 50k fans at each of the semi finals and final?

When are they due to be played?

They cancelled the league and they had broadcasters and sponsors, why would the Scottish cup be given preferential treatment?

[arabdelic]

1 hour ago, wastecoatwilly said:

For the Jags it would be Falkirk or Airdrie,for stranraer it would be Edinburgh city or Elgin.
 

So if one of these teams between Thistle, Falkirk and Airdrie wins this mini play off tournament what happens given Raith Rovers have already secured the 10th spot in The  Championship? 

[Phillips455]

Seems the Scottish government has given the green light to have limited crowds within stadiums in the near future 

 

Good news for most teams as there should be plenty of space for season ticket holders!

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, ahemps said:

Will there be 50k fans at each of the semi finals and final?

When are they due to be played?

They cancelled the league and they had broadcasters and sponsors, why would the Scottish cup be given preferential treatment?

The league is an SPFL decision and the cup is SFA, so preferential treatment doesn't come into it.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, ahemps said:

 

They cancelled the league and they had broadcasters and sponsors, why would the Scottish cup be given preferential treatment?

They can play them anytime, preferably before the end of the year. 

[Tannadeechee]

15 hours ago, 8GamesToGo said:

 

What option did she have? Even Neil Doncaster said he thought there was support. Quite a number of clubs are quoted as saying they were surprised how little support there was in the end. Anonymous sources were quoted in the Record saying some chairmen had decided they wouldn't vote for anything that benefitted Caley. It seems to have been a total charade.

That has been explained.

Hearts, ICT and Rangers tried to have the leagues voided. The Record reported this. ICT Chairman put out a statement in very strong terms rubbishing it. Dave McKinnon confirmed it along with 5 other Championship clubs. ICT have been very quiet since. This is what lost Budge any goodwill in Championship. Again a more friendly approach,  listening to Championship clubs fears and hopes and taken on board these would have helped greatly, rather than trying to steamroller a null & void solution initially.

 

[wastecoatwilly]

10 minutes ago, arabdelic said:

So if one of these teams between Thistle, Falkirk and Airdrie wins this mini play off tournament what happens given Raith Rovers have already secured the 10th spot in The  Championship? 

Yep, you would need to included QOS in the mini tournament.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

18 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Ha, I just find it bizarre that it seems to be quite a mainstream view that the SPFL have shown absolutely zero leadership throughout (Hiya Tom). It just isn't true.

If we start playing football again on 1 August, in front of crowds not too long after and have 42 clubs still standing at the end of it then they've done not too bad.

I don't want to champion them too much as I have plenty of criticisms but folk like Naismith clearly don't really know what they're on about.

Amazing how it looks like contact games and even crowds back might be happening exactly when the SPFL need them to happen. Just in time for the first OF game potentially it looks like now. So all that discussion we've had over the last couple of days about how the SPFL had absolutely no choice because there were definitely no games could start before August might not be right, because the gov has also been saying no crowds possibly until next year.

The SPFL (and clubs - some have clearly acted vindictively) failed when it comes to prioritising "duty of care" to all clubs

They failed to run a proper vote for the resolution and gave clubs no other options to discuss first and limited information in general

They made an early decision for dubious reasons when they didn't have to as they could have waited a month and worked for a start of contact football in early-mid July like other countries, which could have seen the league finished

They cherry picked which parts of the rules they changed (relegation stands but no playoffs or even any attempt to play the playoffs)

They abandoned the pyramid with zero meaningful discussion to the benefit of one club whose chairman is on the board

They failed to facilitate grown-up discussions between clubs, leading to this tit for tat approach

They said they supported reconstruction but clearly failed to either get clubs on board or even warn them of the dangers of voting no given that Budge and PT had both indicated back in March they might (and definitely would in Hearts case) take legal action

They've handled things so badly they're now in arbitration faced with handing over documents they've spent the last 3 months trying to keep private

Everyone screams Hearts have been crying it's all unfair, which is true, but even a member of the board Les Gray said it was unfair. Numerous representatives of clubs, including players and managers, have said it's unfair. D Utd's new manager thought it was very unfair when it was his club Tranmere. So maybe it is unfair and maybe there were other solutions. It's too late now obviously, but it definitely didn't have to get to this point. And to see the whole process once again being driven by the Old Firm's needs and wants is disgusting.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[craigkillie]

11 minutes ago, ahemps said:

Will there be 50k fans at each of the semi finals and final?

When are they due to be played?

They cancelled the league and they had broadcasters and sponsors, why would the Scottish cup be given preferential treatment?

They're completely different things, and I'm not sure why so many posters (including the non-thick ones such as yourself) are struggling with this.

The 2019/20 SPFL has to be finished before the 2020/21 SPFL can start. It is impossible to continue playing both seasons simultaneously. There is no such issue for the Scottish cup because it is a knock-out tournament, the results of which have absolutely no impact on the subsequent season.

[AndyDD]

33 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

That's why I used the Brora v Kelty v Brechin as an example this is possible in the time frame available.
 

... Right, but why were you talking about Partick and Stranraer being in playoffs in the first place? 

 

[craigkillie]

3 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Yep, you would need to included QOS in the mini tournament.

This is an absolute dog's dinner of a suggestion. You're including clubs in automatic relegation spots in play-off competitions, but still awarding promotion to those in automatic promotion spots. As usual, you haven't remotely thought any of this through and are just chucking club names on the page.

[Sortmeout]

As I’ve noted before, it’s worth remembering that #TB4 have shown others how to act properly throughout all of this.

Some of the #W38 have followed our lead but Kilmarnock, Aberdeen, Celtic and Motherwell have been (simply by being classy, well-ran and of course absolutely staunchly against relegation of our own clubs) a beacon of hope once again for Scottish football.

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

They're completely different things, and I'm not sure why so many posters (including the non-thick ones such as yourself) are struggling with this.

The 2019/20 SPFL has to be finished before the 2020/21 SPFL can start. It is impossible to continue playing both seasons simultaneously. There is no such issue for the Scottish cup because it is a knock-out tournament, the results of which have absolutely no impact on the subsequent season.

That's not true. One of Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts had a chance of a Euro spot through the cup. That spot was arbitrarily taken away and handed to Aberdeen.

The cup is another ridiculous thing. personally I hope our semi final goes ahead. It's exactly the kind of derby we could win even with a team that hasn't trained. but it's crazy to play two Scottish cups in the same season. And Hearts probably with a championship squad. What sporting integrity is being shown around the cup?

[AberdeenHibee]

4 hours ago, kingjoey said:

"The whole thing is ludicrous and a scandal," says Hearts captain Steven Naismith of the club's relegation after the Scottish Premiership season was curtailed because of coronavirus.

 

The thing that is ludicrous and a scandal is the fact that Hearts won only 4 games out of 30 and collected a total of 23 points, with one of the highest paid squads in the Premiership. But why don’t you just ignore that Steven. 

When wee Naisy pops his knee again and spends his remaining professional playing days fizzling out on a physio bed in the Scottish Championship whilst scooping up £6k a week (as he has done for 75% of his Hearts career), maybe that can be added to his so-called comedy strip. 

Edited July 9, 2020 by AberdeenHibee

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

23 minutes ago, Phillips455 said:

Seems the Scottish government has given the green light to have limited crowds within stadiums in the near future 

 

Good news for most teams as there should be plenty of space for season ticket holders!

Just in time for the first OF derby. What a coincidence! Folk are so intent with kicking PT and Hearts for having bad seasons and then standing up for themselves in a situation many think is unfair - not just them - that they've been blinded by the very obvious fact that most of the decision making from the SPFL and SFA has been around what's best for the OF - from not simply cancelling the SC so the quadruple treble or whatever it is is still on to fixing the fixtures the way the OF basically requested via the press to working with the gov so crowds are back in time for that fixture.

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by 8GamesToGo

[craigkillie]

Just now, 8GamesToGo said:

That's not true. One of Aberdeen, Hibs and Hearts had a chance of a Euro spot through the cup. That spot was arbitrarily taken away and handed to Aberdeen.

The cup is another ridiculous thing. personally I hope our semi final goes ahead. It's exactly the kind of derby we could win even with a team that hasn't trained. but it's crazy to play two Scottish cups in the same season. And Hearts probably with a championship squad. What sporting integrity is being shown around the cup?

 

The deadline for nominating our European entrants is 3rd August. The Scottish Cup cannot be completed before 3rd August, therefore no matter what happened to the Scottish Cup (scrapped or postponed) that place was not going to be used.

[LIVIFOREVER]

12 hours ago, Spring Onion said:

So absolutely no blame goes to your board, managers or players. The only way out of this for your board, and to sidestep any blame for themselves, is to use a pandemic to dodge the irk of their own fans and throw that anger at everyone else outside of your own club.

 

Classy.

 

We shall accept the will of the clubs in Scotland....... pffft, absolute Levein  

Exactly, the Gorgie faithful have all had a bout of amnesia, on how they found themselves sitting bottom of the table with the 3rd biggest budget in the league.

No recriminations for Ann Budge, it wasn't the big bad SPFL's fault that Hearts were underperforming and stinking up the Premiership all season. It wasn't the SPFL's fault Budge couldn't come up with a half decent reconstruction proposal to save their useless arses from a relegation their piss poor performances left them in. Picking fights with the very people she was pinning her hopes on for saving Hearts  also wasn't the SPFL's fault. 

As well as forgetting about all their failings on and off the pitch this season, they also seem to have forgotten how Budge claimed poverty and threatened players with pay cuts or the sack, but is now awash with cash to spend on legal fees and paying out compo to sign a new manager, as well as signing a keeper from Celtic. What a right kick in the baws that must be to the players that were forced into taking wages cuts. Ann can do no wrong now though, she's bullet proof now she's found a villain to blame everything on.

[wastecoatwilly]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

This is an absolute dog's dinner of a suggestion. You're including clubs in automatic relegation spots in play-off competitions, but still awarding promotion to those in automatic promotion spots. As usual, you haven't remotely thought any of this through and are just chucking club names on the page.

I was looking at it from a sporting contest point of view from the bottom up,Brora or Kelty would get their chance the same for Edinburgh city and Elgin like wise Falkirk and Airdrie giving the time frame available. 

[Guest 8GamesToGo]

4 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

The deadline for nominating our European entrants is 3rd August. The Scottish Cup cannot be completed before 3rd August, therefore no matter what happened to the Scottish Cup (scrapped or postponed) that place was not going to be used.

Just saying the cup does affect the following season. The cup thing is interesting. The SFA decided from the start that playing to a finish was their preference and have stuck with that despite obvious difficulties and unfairnesses. The SPFL could have taken that approach with the league and given it a bit more time to see if a finish could be possible. I get one is 3 games etc but rushing into that half-arsed decision has created everything that is going on right now.

[Dons_1988]

3 minutes ago, 8GamesToGo said:

Amazing how it looks like contact games and even crowds back might be happening exactly when the SPFL need them to happen. Just in time for the first OF game potentially it looks like now. So all that discussion we've had over the last couple of days about how the SPFL had absolutely no choice because there were definitely no games could start before August might not be right, because the gov has also been saying no crowds possibly until next year. - Incoherent

The SPFL (and SFA) failed when it comes to prioritising "duty of care" to all clubs - All you're saying here is that their duty of care didn't match up to what you think should have happened to Hearts

They failed to run a proper vote for the resolution and gave clubs no other options to discuss first and limited information in general - The vote wasn't fantastic, verging on farcical and I would list it under my criticisms of them. But in hindsight, nothing other than the right decision has bee made.

They made an early decision for dubious reasons when they didn't have to as they could have waited a month and worked for a start of contact football in June like other countries - The decision was made a matter of weeks before player contracts ran out and as clubs were desperate for cash and there was no sign of football coming back. "Waiting" is literally the worst option I can think of. Now that would be zero leadership.

They cherry picked which parts of the rules they changed (relegation stands but no playoffs or even any attempt to play the playoffs) - playoffs involve playing football matches, something that was illegal, you needed to resolve all matters of promotion/relegation before starting a new season.

They abandoned the pyramid with zero meaningful discussion to the benefit of one club whose chairman is on the board - I'm less knowledgeable on that one but again that involves a playoff which involves...playing football

They failed to facilitate grown-up discussions between clubs, leading to this tit for tat approach - Not sure this is a genuine gripe.

They said they supported reconstruction but clearly failed to either get clubs on board or even warn them of the dangers of voting no given that Budge and PT had both indicated back in March they might (and definitely would in Hearts case) take legal action - Supporting reconstruction doesn't mean making it happen. Again, they are there to enact the will of the clubs and the voting threshold for reconstruction is clear. The reality from day 1 is that reconstruction would fail.

They've handled things so badly they're now in arbitration faced with handing over documents they've spent the last 3 months trying to keep private - They're in arbitration because inevitably clubs would be pissed off without reconstruction. See above for reconstruction.

Everyone screams Hearts have been crying it's all unfair, which is true, but even a member of the board Les Gray said it was unfair. Numerous representatives of clubs, including players and managers, have said it's unfair. D Utd's new manager thought it was very unfair when it was his club Tranmere. So maybe it is unfair and maybe there were other solutions. It's too late now obviously, but it definitely didn't have to get to this point. And to see the whole process once again being driven by the Old Firm's needs and wants is disgusting. - It is unfortunate and even quite unfair, but so is losing a cup final to a blatant handball or the like. That doesn't mean you replay the entire fixture. There are degrees of unfairness in life, some of which require correcting and others that you need to take on the chin. Hearts/PT and the SPFL view this differently and that's why we're at arbitration. Ultimately Hearts haven't been 'placed' or selected to go down, they have gone down as the bottom side in the league.

A judge may feel it requires corrected (I doubt it). Even still, I don't think the SPFL would have done things too much differently.