Best & Worst Ref In Scottish Football

[itzdrk]

9 hours ago, D'Jaffo said:

Also Bobby Madden is a w**k as well and no amount of Si Ferry car interviews will change that.

 

Managed to deny us about 3 stone wall penalties in the space of a couple of months last season.

 

You don't watch that crap do you? 

[D'Jaffo]

You don't watch that crap do you? 

I watch the odd one aye.

The podcast is the only one I really can’t bear tbh.

[Sankasouthy]

Nick Walsh is the best I’ve seen over the last year or two. Willie Collum has been decent as well and probably gets some uncalled for grief.

Got to say I loved Bobby Madden’s story on his car share with Si Ferry. He was 4th official at a game not too long ago and Robbie Neilson was giving him some about the referee who was doing the match “wanting to be all the players friend”. He then said to Bobby “you’ve got to be a p***k to be a good referee”. “You’re a good referee Bobby”
An absolute classic from Robbie. How he could get away with calling Bobby a p***k and not be sent up to the stand! [emoji23][emoji106]

[HoBNob]

16 hours ago, Granny Danger said:

’.

Maybe the quality of Scottish refs is equally as good and we can’t see it because we’re never going to be unbiased.

Maybe not equally as good but I thought it was alright, use to go to quite allot of games as neutrals back in the day and I'd often think the referee was bang on while fans of either team would be calling for his head on a spike. 

[DA Baracus]

I genuinely couldn't name any of these refs and have no idea how good or bad they are.

I think they all get massively over analysed and it's far too easy to blame them for things. I enjoy the pantomime of shouting at them and the other officials during games but they don't cause teams to lose or not win.

Would like to add that anyone who trots out the line about refs wanting to be the centre of attention is talking nonsense. A brainless cliche up there with 'tactically naive'.

[19QOS19]

I genuinely couldn't name any of these refs and have no idea how good or bad they are.
I think they all get massively over analysed and it's far too easy to blame them for things. I enjoy the pantomime of shouting at them and the other officials during games but they don't cause teams to lose or not win.
Would like to add that anyone who trots out the line about refs wanting to be the centre of attention is talking nonsense. A brainless cliche up there with 'tactically naive'.

Some will definitely have an ego away from the sport. Knowing some of the referees at local level I know some of them enjoy the power. I expect that'll be the case for a few at the top level as well.


You can only really a judge a referee if you're a neutral. I went to a lot of games at the start of the season as a neutral and it's quite funny seeing how biased fans are (what a revelation!). So I've kind of chilled a bit when watching QoS. I always find it baffling when a blatant foul is met by moans or abuse from crowds though. And if the away side at Palmerston is given 2 or 3 fouls against in quick succession the rage is pretty funny, even if they are all correct decisions.

Alan Muir is a name I hate to hear but I can't think of specific incidents, just that he generally has a bad game against us. For a while I like Steven McLean. Thought he was a fair ref but in the last couple of years he's become really poor. Even neutrally speaking.

Crawford Allen definitely suffered from wee man syndrome. An absolute w****r of a referee who seemed to love giving us a red. The best one being against The Rangers at Palmerston. He was the 4th official as well ffs. Claimed Derek Lyle headbutted one of their players. Incredible observation given Lyle was nowhere near him, had his back to Allen, The Rangers player never flinched and Lyle didn't do such a thing. A jumped up little w****r.

[weeredbook]

19 hours ago, eez-eh said:

 

Steven McLean, Greg Aitken and Andrew Dallas are shite.

That's quite a compliment for Dallas .

[Ludo*1]

22 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Crawford Allen definitely suffered from wee man syndrome. An absolute w****r of a referee who seemed to love giving us a red. The best one being against The Rangers at Palmerston. He was the 4th official as well ffs. Claimed Derek Lyle headbutted one of their players. Incredible observation given Lyle was nowhere near him, had his back to Allen, The Rangers player never flinched and Lyle didn't do such a thing. A jumped up little w****r.

You'll be glad to know he's the head of refereeing in Scotland then.

[Ludo*1]

Never in a million years did I expect to see P&B thinking Bobby Madden is the premier referee in Scotland.

[RiG]

On 04/05/2020 at 15:13, Speroni*1 said:

I included him out of instinct before referring to Soccerbase. I'd substitute him for Greg Aitken, but this latest version of P&B doesn't let you edit.

Went for Beaton as "best" simply because I don't really recall him having too many howlers in games involving us. Thomson as the "worst" but only because I couldn't vote for Greg Aitken and based on this post I will treat Thomson as Aitken.
 

Thinking this was a dive

 

[THEHonestman1910]

Andrew Dallas doesn't help himself by being like his dad...a twat.

[Skyline Drifter]

8 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

Crawford Allen definitely suffered from wee man syndrome. An absolute w****r of a referee who seemed to love giving us a red. The best one being against The Rangers at Palmerston. He was the 4th official as well ffs. Claimed Derek Lyle headbutted one of their players. Incredible observation given Lyle was nowhere near him, had his back to Allen, The Rangers player never flinched and Lyle didn't do such a thing. A jumped up little w****r.

I wasn't a massive fan of Crawford Allan either but Lyle definitely went head to head with Rob Kiernan.

Derek Lyle Red Card

There was no significant force and it wasn't a "butt"as such so Lyle won an appeal and had it downgraded to a yellow card. But there was definite contact and a forward motion with his head. I'm not sure if you are claiming Lyle was nowhere near Kiernan or nowhere near Allan at the time but neither is true. There was definite contact with Kiernan and Allan was about 6 feet away at the time at most and looking directly at it. The SFA actually changed guidance to referees after that incident but as referee's were interpreting such actions at the time Allan was doing what he was trained to do and reported it accurately.

I on the other hand haven't forgotten him awarding Partick Thistle THAT penalty in the Challenge Cup Final for a challenge by Marc Fitzpatrick that took place about a yard outside the box!

To be honest the vast majority of the referees are absolutely fine.

[invergowrie arab]

I think Bobby Madden is ok too.

Has anyone ever reffed a full 11 q side game. I have, it wasn't pretty.

[19QOS19]

4 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

I wasn't a massive fan of Crawford Allan either but Lyle definitely went head to head with Rob Kiernan.

Derek Lyle Red Card

There was no significant force and it wasn't a "butt"as such so Lyle won an appeal and had it downgraded to a yellow card. But there was definite contact and a forward motion with his head. I'm not sure if you are claiming Lyle was nowhere near Kiernan or nowhere near Allan at the time but neither is true. There was definite contact with Kiernan and Allan was about 6 feet away at the time at most and looking directly at it. The SFA actually changed guidance to referees after that incident but as referee's were interpreting such actions at the time Allan was doing what he was trained to do and reported it accurately.

I on the other hand haven't forgotten him awarding Partick Thistle THAT penalty in the Challenge Cup Final for a challenge by Marc Fitzpatrick that took place about a yard outside the box!

To be honest the vast majority of the referees are absolutely fine.

Head to head and a headbutt are two entirely different things. The w****r was hopping about the touchline when it happened and couldn't wait to tell the ref. Clearly he never saw a headbutt (because there wasn't one) so shouldn't have told the ref to award the red. 

I'm sure it was Kevin Smith he sent off at Kilmarnock early on for something similar. 

[Skyline Drifter]

21 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

Head to head and a headbutt are two entirely different things. The w****r was hopping about the touchline when it happened and couldn't wait to tell the ref. Clearly he never saw a headbutt (because there wasn't one) so shouldn't have told the ref to award the red. 

I'm sure it was Kevin Smith he sent off at Kilmarnock early on for something similar. 

The Scottish Cup tie? That was Stephen McKenna and the referee was Mike Tumilty.

And for me, at the time, that's what referees interpreted as a head butt. He definitely moves his head into Keirnan. As I say, the Referee Association changed its guidance after that incident. Under the previous guidance Allan did exactly as he was trained to. Lyle won his appeal on the grounds that there was no "excessive force" not that he didn't butt him.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Skyline Drifter

[Skyline Drifter]

22 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I think Bobby Madden is ok too.

Has anyone ever reffed a full 11 q side game. I have, it wasn't pretty.

Did it once for half a game in a Sunday amateur friendly. Never EVER again.

[parsforlife]

A lot of the known names talked about here are are the better ones.   Guys like madden and Mclean (and lesser so Dallas) are being criticised but there’s a clear reason they get premiership games most often.  The extra prominence obviously highlights their mistakes more.

 I’d far rather get one of these than the utter dross like Napier who get dragged into this league for some stupid reason time to time despite clearly not being anywhere near the standard needed.  

Napier is probably the name that I’d dread most right now.  But nobody currently gets close to Charleston or Finnie who we are well rid of.  Finnie was worse generally but Charleston was terribly managed by the sfa.  It was never a secret he was a big Falkirk fan and yet it was pretty much ignored in his appointments in a situation I find impossible to think could happen had he supported one of the bigger clubs.   

Edited May 5, 2020 by parsforlife

[19QOS19]

37 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

The Scottish Cup tie? That was Stephen McKenna and the referee was Mike Tumilty.

And for me, at the time, that's what referees interpreted as a head butt. He definitely moves his head into Keirnan. As I say, the Referee Association changed its guidance after that incident. Under the previous guidance Allan did exactly as he was trained to. Lyle won his appeal on the grounds that there was no "excessive force" not that he didn't butt him.

That makes no sense to me whatsoever: Allen gets him sent off but the panel say it's only yellow. If it's only a yellow then Allen got it wrong. 

No it was the 5-0 game where Smith was sent off. It was for an elbow that wasn't an intentional elbow. But looking back it wasn't actually Allen. He's still a dick though. 

[Skyline Drifter]

5 minutes ago, 19QOS19 said:

That makes no sense to me whatsoever: Allen gets him sent off but the panel say it's only yellow. If it's only a yellow then Allen got it wrong. 

No it was the 5-0 game where Smith was sent off. It was for an elbow that wasn't an intentional elbow. But looking back it wasn't actually Allen. He's still a dick though. 

I'd wiped the 5-0 game from my memory.

I'm presumably not explaining the position clearly on the Lyle incident then. The problem was that national guidance issued to referee and part of their training said that a head to head clash where one player moves his head into the other constituted a head butt and a red card offence. That's absolutely what Lyle did and therefore Allan acted as his employers had trained him to do. You can't really criticise him for that.  The Lyle incident, and an earlier one involving Kris Boyd saw the PFA successfully claim that the rules of football actually required "excessive force" for a red card offence and that what Lyle (and Boyd) had done was not excessive force. The SFA accepted this and changed the guidance given to referees thereafter.

You can say the SFA Refereeing Dept got it wrong in how they trained their referees, Allan himself acted entirely as he was supposed to.

[eez-eh]

19 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

A lot of the known names talked about here are are the better ones.   Guys like madden and Mclean (and lesser so Dallas) are being criticised but there’s a clear reason they get premiership games most often.  The extra prominence obviously highlights their mistakes more.

 I’d far rather get one of these than the utter dross like Napier who get dragged into this league for some stupid reason time to time despite clearly not being anywhere near the standard needed.  

Napier is probably the name that I’d dread most right now.  But nobody currently gets close to Charleston or Finnie who we are well rid of.  Finnie was worse generally but Charleston was terribly managed by the sfa.  It was never a secret he was a big Falkirk fan and yet it was pretty much ignored in his appointments in a situation I find impossible to think could happen had he supported one of the bigger clubs.   

Don’t kid yourself on re: Dallas. There’s one very big reason why such a hopeless ref has made it so far.