Shadwell Dog Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 7 hours ago, DA Baracus said: Clubs have a far better chance of surviving by 'hibernating' for a while than they do from playing games in empty stadiums. How do you hibernate if you've got 10 to 12 players you have to pay? I'd rather take my chances on playing and selling some sort of season ticket. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank von Hell Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 16 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: How do you hibernate if you've got 10 to 12 players you have to pay? I'd rather take my chances on playing and selling some sort of season ticket. I doubt it's doable for many clubs. And even if you had zero players on the wage bill you will still have ongoing costs - rent, rates, utilities, HMRC, maintenance, security etc. Not all of these costs can be deferred especially when the rest of the country is getting back to work. How can this continue for 6months to a year with no income? And of course if you can defer these costs , you will only have to pay huge accumulated sums once you get back out of hibernation - which if you have survived to that point will probably put you under. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 'Hibernation' reduces many costs to the minimum for clubs. Players can be furloughed until October. Clubs could fundraise like many have already done. Playing games in empty stadiums raises costs to maximum and adds on more wages as clubs need a squad. Fundraising wouldn't cover that. Streaming games wouldn't come come close to covering even half of that. Empty stadium games will accelerate the death of clubs, not save them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: I doubt it's doable for many clubs. And even if you had zero players on the wage bill you will still have ongoing costs - rent, rates, utilities, HMRC, maintenance, security etc. Not all of these costs can be deferred especially when the rest of the country is getting back to work. How can this continue for 6months to a year with no income? And of course if you can defer these costs , you will only have to pay huge accumulated sums once you get back out of hibernation - which if you have survived to that point will probably put you under. If hibernating isn't doable for clubs neither is playing games behind closed doors. We're aw doomed, may as well pack it in now and save yourself the heart break. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 3 hours ago, DA Baracus said: 'Hibernation' reduces many costs to the minimum for clubs. Players can be furloughed until October. Clubs could fundraise like many have already done. Playing games in empty stadiums raises costs to maximum and adds on more wages as clubs need a squad. Fundraising wouldn't cover that. Streaming games wouldn't come come close to covering even half of that. Empty stadium games will accelerate the death of clubs, not save them. Agree with this. Plus furlough is only until "at least" October. I doubt it will be carried on past then in its current state (unless there is a second wave), but I could see a halfway house system where businesses are allowed to continue on the scheme if they can say they have exceptional circumstances... and sports clubs denied their main source of revenue would be an obvious example. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 5 hours ago, DA Baracus said: 'Hibernation' reduces many costs to the minimum for clubs. Players can be furloughed until October. Clubs could fundraise like many have already done. Playing games in empty stadiums raises costs to maximum and adds on more wages as clubs need a squad. Fundraising wouldn't cover that. Streaming games wouldn't come come close to covering even half of that. Empty stadium games will accelerate the death of clubs, not save them. If we have football getting played we can start selling season tickets and getting money in for sponsorship etc. Talk is that companies will have to start contributing money into the furlough scheme at the end of July. Far easier to get money off fans when there are actually football matches going on with their team. Hibernation may suit part time clubs but it certainly wouldng suit us. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Shadwell Dog said: If we have football getting played we can start selling season tickets and getting money in for sponsorship etc. Talk is that companies will have to start contributing money into the furlough scheme at the end of July. Far easier to get money off fans when there are actually football matches going on with their team. Hibernation may suit part time clubs but it certainly wouldng suit us. How do you sell season tickets for a closed door match? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 13 minutes ago, The Moonster said: How do you sell season tickets for a closed door match? In a division that the proposer acknowledges some teams won't be able to take part in, or will drop out during the season. Edited May 27, 2020 by Sergeant Wilson 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Shadwell Dog said: Hibernation may suit part time clubs but it certainly wouldng suit us. Well you shouldn't have got relegated and then failed to get out of the seaside leagues, like the absolute rabble you are. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, The Moonster said: How do you sell season tickets for a closed door match? Look it's probably going to be closed doors till the new year then crowds. You'd need to be a bit creative with the package but as long as you're honest with the fans I dont see a problem getting them sold if fans know they're helping the club. We've raised over 10k with virtual 50/50 tickets for the saturday reruns and that's not been overly pushed. I'd certainly buy a season and a load of others would too. Other clubs have raised cash and given their fans feck all back so a season ticket will look like a bargain compared to that deal. Edited May 27, 2020 by Shadwell Dog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartcraig Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, Shadwell Dog said: Look it's probably going to be closed doors till the new year then crowds. You'd need to be a bit creative with the package but as long as you're honest with the fans I dont see a problem getting them sold if fans know they're helping the club. We've raised over 10k with virtual 50/50 tickets for the saturday reruns and that's not been overly pushed. I'd certainly buy a season and a load of others would too. Other clubs have raised cash and given their fans feck all back so a season ticket will look like a bargain compared to that deal. For a second I was thinking that you were just being your usual delusional self but, having thought about it, maybe clubs could live stream their home games and the season ticket would offset or cover the cost of that streaming access for subscribers. I doubt it would come anywhere near covering running costs but maybe it's an option. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted May 27, 2020 Share Posted May 27, 2020 Just now, stuartcraig said: For a second I was thinking that you were just being your usual delusional self but, having thought about it, maybe clubs could live stream their home games and the season ticket would offset or cover the cost of that streaming access for subscribers. I doubt it would come anywhere near covering running costs but maybe it's an option. Yes plus just saying to our fans look we need you to buy season tickets to keep the club going and so that we can play football. I'm sure most of our fans would still buy there season ticket if that was the case. We're selling more 50/50 tickets the now than we do at matches.This season will hopefully be a once off fingers crossed so I'm sure supporters will realise that the club needs their cash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank von Hell Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 hours ago, The Moonster said: If hibernating isn't doable for clubs neither is playing games behind closed doors. We're aw doomed, may as well pack it in now and save yourself the heart break. I still think the smaller teams can play in front of crowds properly social distanced. I think fans would obey if it meant getting back into games, they can even wear masks if it helps. Look at Ayr Utd, they could easily spread their fans around that stadium. Or Forfar for example. I'd ban away fans just to keep the government happy about movement of people . The Forfar chairman said 2/3rds of their revenue comes from hospitality. By the time the season starts I'm pretty sure that restaurants will be open - there is no difference so they could get that moving again. There has to be a way to get back playing in front of crowds & if the football clubs can get their heads together instead of squabbling, with some proper leadership and Budge can bugger off to the Championship then it is at the very least a possibility. With home season tickets, hospitality , PPV streaming for away fans and smaller squads of players on lower wages - football outside the Premiership can survive. If not I think some may well be doomed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadwell Dog Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: I still think the smaller teams can play in front of crowds properly social distanced. I think fans would obey if it meant getting back into games, they can even wear masks if it helps. Look at Ayr Utd, they could easily spread their fans around that stadium. Or Forfar for example. I'd ban away fans just to keep the government happy about movement of people . The Forfar chairman said 2/3rds of their revenue comes from hospitality. By the time the season starts I'm pretty sure that restaurants will be open - there is no difference so they could get that moving again. There has to be a way to get back playing in front of crowds & if the football clubs can get their heads together instead of squabbling, with some proper leadership and Budge can bugger off to the Championship then it is at the very least a possibility. With home season tickets, hospitality , PPV streaming for away fans and smaller squads of players on lower wages - football outside the Premiership can survive. If not I think some may well be doomed. It'll not be up to football at the end of the day though. This will all depend on when the scottish government allows it which I cant see happening for a good while yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
macclyde+ Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 15 hours ago, stuartcraig said: For a second I was thinking that you were just being your usual delusional self but, having thought about it, maybe clubs could live stream their home games and the season ticket would offset or cover the cost of that streaming access for subscribers. I doubt it would come anywhere near covering running costs but maybe it's an option. I don't think this is an option at all for the smaller clubs. Fair enough that the season ticket money would maybe offset streaming access, however you also need to factor in loss of hospitality income (a fairly large part of the budget for some of the smaller clubs), plus you would still have to pay all of the players the same or similar money to what they are on just now. I don't see many other options out there, but live streaming could probably only work for the bigger clubs, if at all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 6 hours ago, Hank von Hell said: if the football clubs can get their heads together instead of squabbling, Think that's a bit rich when the last 4 pages have been Falkirk fans demanding to be accommodated in whichever league is going ahead in August. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartcraig Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 I don't think this is an option at all for the smaller clubs. Fair enough that the season ticket money would maybe offset streaming access, however you also need to factor in loss of hospitality income (a fairly large part of the budget for some of the smaller clubs), plus you would still have to pay all of the players the same or similar money to what they are on just now. I don't see many other options out there, but live streaming could probably only work for the bigger clubs, if at all. I don’t have any confidence at all that it would be a viable solution but, in fairness, I can’t say it definitely wouldn’t work either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hank von Hell Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 hours ago, The Moonster said: Think that's a bit rich when the last 4 pages have been Falkirk fans demanding to be accommodated in whichever league is going ahead in August. If you look back I have never said that and I cannot speak for other Falkirk fans. I have just been boring everyone with my theory about clubs playing with fans in stadiums - I believe this can happen in the next 3-4 months & can be financially viable for all clubs. Sorry for trying to look for a positive way out of this. FYI - In my opinion football should always be decided on the pitch and never anything to do with money or how many fans you have or do not have. This stuff about leagues being formed based on who can actually play I find repugnant & the very opposite of sporting integrity. Have a nice day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Moonster Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 12 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said: If you look back I have never said that and I cannot speak for other Falkirk fans. I have just been boring everyone with my theory about clubs playing with fans in stadiums - I believe this can happen in the next 3-4 months & can be financially viable for all clubs. Sorry for trying to look for a positive way out of this. FYI - In my opinion football should always be decided on the pitch and never anything to do with money or how many fans you have or do not have. This stuff about leagues being formed based on who can actually play I find repugnant & the very opposite of sporting integrity. Have a nice day. You seem to support the view that Falkirk couldn't hibernate until January earlier in the thread, the alternative to that was Falkirk playing in whatever division was going ahead.l in August. Apologies if I have assumed incorrectly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Wilson Posted May 28, 2020 Share Posted May 28, 2020 43 minutes ago, Hank von Hell said: This stuff about leagues being formed based on who can actually play I find repugnant & the very opposite of sporting integrity. Have a nice day. 29 minutes ago, The Moonster said: You seem to support the view that Falkirk couldn't hibernate until January earlier in the thread, the alternative to that was Falkirk playing in whatever division was going ahead.l in August. Apologies if I have assumed incorrectly. Be sure to.stand aside if Falkirk get invited in to the Championship. I wouldn't want you to get knocked over in the rush. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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