Sergeant Wilson Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Another quote from the Guardian article mentioned in previous post. Some would probably argue now that Mary Whitehouse was right to try and force Till Death Us Do Part off the air - even if she had missed the point of the show. Whitehouse was concerned about Alf's bad language rather than the real question of whether it was racist or not. Bleeding and bloody offended her more than c**n. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Orton Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Whitehouse was concerned about Alf's bad language rather than the real question of whether it was racist or not. Bleeding and bloody offended her more than c**n. Whitehouse herself was a horrible bigot. Her views on homosexuality etc were like something out the old testament. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Love thy neighbour was a racist joke. Till death us do part was a joke about racism and class among other things. People seem to have lost the ability to tell the difference. I'm not sure people ever could. There an interview with Warren Mitchell where someone congratulates him for having a go at the blacks and he has to explain it for them. No matter how well intentioned the writing, if some folk are tuning in just to laugh at wog jokes you have to question it. It's a bit like the pub landlord which was started to ridicule little Englander attitudes and ends up being a huge success because Brexiteers get to come and laugh at jokes about the Krauts and frogs guilt free. I'm not saying the answer is to ban everything (apart from Al Murray he really is shit) but to say you are actually lampooning racism whilst black kids get the hard end of it in school the next day isn't enough. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, throbber said: I dunno about the red top paper stuff, the war on benefits scrounges was more after the credit crunch 2008 - 2010 time and Little Britain ran from 2003-2006. Were people blaming the disabled for the countries woes in that era? I genuinely can’t remember but people can and will try and argue that’s what the message was in little Britain regardless. Lou and Andy characters started on Rock profile which was a show they did on some MTV channel (UK Play?) in the 90’s and were parodies of Lou Reed and Andy Warhole and were specially designed to be absolutely nothing like them just out of pure silliness. There was no hidden agenda there it was just utterly daft. Instead of me pontificating here's a proper report. My impression is that the "scroungers" narrative has been mainstream for as long as i can remember. The target group has varied from single mothers to immigrants and people with big families. Benefits-Stigma-in-Britain (1).pdf 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennett Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 18 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Another quote from the Guardian article mentioned in previous post. Some would probably argue now that Mary Whitehouse was right to try and force Till Death Us Do Part off the air - even if she had missed the point of the show. Mary Whitehouse claimed that the A Team was too violent ffs, she was always missing the point. In sickness and in health was one of the first shows that I can remember showing a gay character, I'm sure that she had an issue with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambomo Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Sergeant Wilson said: Love thy neighbour was a racist joke. Till death us do part was a joke about racism and class among other things. People seem to have lost the ability to tell the difference. I think the problem with shows like that, and to some extent Little Britain, is that whatever the intention of the writers, it ultimately heavily depends on the audience being able to tell the difference. I think for every person laughing at the racist or homophobic character, there is probably another one not getting the joke and laughing along with them at the funny bigoted comments they are making. These ideas are just reinforced and legitimised because they are on TV, and people think that they aren’t the only ones thinking these things, so they must have a point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 31 minutes ago, Jambomo said: I think the problem with shows like that, and to some extent Little Britain, is that whatever the intention of the writers, it ultimately heavily depends on the audience being able to tell the difference. I think for every person laughing at the racist or homophobic character, there is probably another one not getting the joke and laughing along with them at the funny bigoted comments they are making. These ideas are just reinforced and legitimised because they are on TV, and people think that they aren’t the only ones thinking these things, so they must have a point. Make that 100 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 (edited) 22 hours ago, Bairnardo said: It's always worth discussion but I think the number of young, real quality black English footballers would point to real progress in the playing side of it. In terms of representation there is absolutely no problem in football. This article puts the figure of black players in the Premier League at something like then times the proportion of the black population of Britain. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11985713/coronavirus-jobi-mcanuff-says-premier-league-clubs-should-note-extra-risk-to-black-players I'm not sure what the figures are for Scotland, but I'd be happy to bet that the percentage of the footballers in Scotland who are black is higher than the population in general. Definitely an issue in those players moving on to management roles, but certainly not in terms of playing. Edited July 7, 2020 by JTS98 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 I think the problem with shows like that, and to some extent Little Britain, is that whatever the intention of the writers, it ultimately heavily depends on the audience being able to tell the difference. I think for every person laughing at the racist or homophobic character, there is probably another one not getting the joke and laughing along with them at the funny bigoted comments they are making. These ideas are just reinforced and legitimised because they are on TV, and people think that they aren’t the only ones thinking these things, so they must have a point.Pretty much this.I think the mainstream success makes a difference.When these shows are smaller, they can probably get away with the satire. But when the shows gets huge then the point of the satire gets lost, and it becomes damaging.No easy answers. But i guess if you create a show like this you have to take responsibility for it - and act accordingly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 11 hours ago, bennett said: Till death do us part was mocking the society which existed in the 70s, Alf was the joke. Was Love Thy Neighbour not similar? An attempt to highlight the ridiculous racism in society at the time rather than legitimise it? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Tynierose said: Whitehouse herself was a horrible bigot. Her views on homosexuality etc were like something out the old testament. That was precisely where she got her inspiration from. She was the worst kind of petty bourgeois bigot who was instinctively against anything that fell outside her own limited horizons which she didn't understand. Which as it turned out was most things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 16 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: It's possible for people to do things with no malice and still end up making a rip roaring c**t of it. Matt Lucas seems to spend time now doing stuff like amplifying voices of people in wheelchairs who had the piss ripped out of them with Little Britain catchphrases. Walliams doesn't seem to give a f**k really. I know they did have a go at everyone but it's interesting that the most popular characters are the ones that punch down to marginalised groups and not the ones where they were getting a laugh at white male Tory MPs Lucas at least seems to have realised you have to own your actions when that's the result. Also Little Britain was dogshit To use an old comedy show phrase, a game of good guy/w**k of that pair wouldn’t take very long. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 12 hours ago, ICTJohnboy said: Alf Garnet was even worse. How about Porridge where Ronnie Barker constantly ripped the piss out of Fulton MacKay being Scottish? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve_Wilkos Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Jambomo said: I think the problem with shows like that, and to some extent Little Britain, is that whatever the intention of the writers, it ultimately heavily depends on the audience being able to tell the difference. You can also see the 'No More Catholics' section from Trainspotting 2 for another example of this phenomenon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 15 hours ago, ali_91 said: It doesn’t sound shocking, it’s just blatantly not true. Jack Monroe is someone who has spent a large part of her life on benefits and using food banks and is a renowned campaigner to improve the help available for those less fortunate. Her viral thread on twitter is first and foremost about Walliams hitting down at the working classes, and she explores other themes in the books which may be perceived as racist. She obviously does care about it, it’s her raison d’etre. She may well have done so, but her ongoing Walliams thread - like the plethora of “anti Scottish agenda” tweets - are making the whole range of issues entirely about her. I don’t doubt her sincerity - well, actually I do - but she’s an absolutely dreadful writer/polemicist/talking head. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hk blues Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 1 hour ago, JTS98 said: In terms of representation there is absolutely no problem in football. This article puts the figure of black players in the Premier League at something like then times the proportion of the black population of Britain. https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11661/11985713/coronavirus-jobi-mcanuff-says-premier-league-clubs-should-note-extra-risk-to-black-players I'm not sure what the figures are for Scotland, but I'd be happy to bet that the percentage of the footballers in Scotland who are black is higher than the population in general. Definitely an issue in those players moving on to management roles, but certainly not in terms of playing. I would imagine you are right but when we are dealing with small numbers it doesn't take much to skew the data i.e.signing 1 black player would perhaps be enough to "meet a quota." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightswoodBear Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Steve_Wilkos said: You can also see the 'No More Catholics' section from Trainspotting 2 for another example of this phenomenon. That was my favourite bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 3 minutes ago, Steve_Wilkos said: You can also see the 'No More Catholics' section from Trainspotting 2 for another example of this phenomenon. I suspect the only ones who didn't find that scene hilarious were brain dead bigots themselves 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JTS98 Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 2 minutes ago, hk blues said: I would imagine you are right but when we are dealing with small numbers it doesn't take much to skew the data i.e.signing 1 black player would perhaps be enough to "meet a quota." Yeah, but I don't think there's any need for a quota at all. I don't think black players are denied opportunities. Management jobs are a different story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted July 7, 2020 Share Posted July 7, 2020 9 minutes ago, ali_91 said: I can’t say I’ve read much, if any of her work, but someone who has campaigned their whole adult life about something should be considered sincere in their beliefs at the very least. Having some narcissistic undertones in your writing is not mutually exclusive to actually believing what you are saying. Fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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