George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[Hedgecutter]

14 minutes ago, GordonS said:

ah'm Irish!" Another said that his family are emigrating to New Zealand "to get away from all the migrants." I'm sure everywhere's much the same though.

If you’re white and speak English then you’re generally treated as one of us, especially those from the ROI I would say.  In reality, the ROI is just as foreign as Poland, but it’s never, ever seen like that.

If Americans spoke French as a first language then they’d be treated as the French are here.  Probably worse actually.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Hedgecutter

[Hedgecutter]

7 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Are those figures from the 2011 census? If so, they're a bit out of date now.

In any case, that's more than one in forty in Scotland from an Asian background. In Glasgow that's over 10%, and has been for a long time. Are 10% of the youth players in Glasgow football clubs from Asian-origin families? From what I've seen almost none are.

If, for example, each Premiership club had a first team squad of 25, half of who are Scottish, that's 150 players. You'd expect to see 4-5 Scots Asians in there at any one time. I can think of literally one Scots Asian professional footballer, and he's retired.

Could also be be applied to crowds. Not a chance there’ll be anything near 6000 people of Asian descent at a sell-out Celtic Park.

[Bairnardo]

6 minutes ago, Stellaboz said:

Me personally? No. Not in Scotland. But someone else might think so and I think it's discussion has merit in the topic since we are talking about quotas. 

It's always worth discussion but I think the number of young, real quality black English footballers would point to real progress in the playing side of it. 

 

4 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

Could also be be applied to crowds. Not a chance there’ll be anything near 6000 people of Asian descent at a sell-out Celtic Park.

At some point you do have to also consider that due to cultural differences, a lot of Asian people might simply be utterly puzzled by our obsession with football and have no interest in spending their money going along to watch it. The key here isnt forcing folk to be interested, simply making sure those that are interested get a fair shake. 

[GordonS]

3 minutes ago, Binos said:

I was joking about fife...but prejudice of any kind and poverty do usually go hand in hand

Is there not some stat that of the 10 most deprived wards in Scotland half are in Fife, which for a region with no cities is some going

 Fife has one ward in the top 10 for the proportion of wards in the bottom 20% of SIMD - Buckhaven.  https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-index-of-multiple-deprivation-2020v2-local-and-national-share-calculator-2/ 

SIMD is very blunt, but let's not get into that here. 

[vikingTON]

14 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

If you’re white and speak English then you’re generally treated as one of us, especially those from the ROI I would say.  In reality, the ROI is just as foreign as Poland, but it’s never, ever seen like that.

It's really not given the existence of the common travel area and the joint rights to live, access healthcare, social benefits and to vote in either ROI or the UK that come with that.

[Binos]

34 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Are those figures from the 2011 census? If so, they're a bit out of date now.

In any case, that's more than one in forty in Scotland from an Asian background. In Glasgow that's over 10%, and has been for a long time. Are 10% of the youth players in Glasgow football clubs from Asian-origin families? From what I've seen almost none are.

If, for example, each Premiership club had a first team squad of 25, half of who are Scottish, that's 150 players. You'd expect to see 4-5 Scots Asians in there at any one time. I can think of literally one Scots Asian professional footballer, and he's retired.

But we know that scots asians traditionally play cricket and hockey

Yes 2011 census, may look very different from next year, who knows

[Hedgecutter]

13 minutes ago, GordonS said:

 Fife has one ward in the top 10 for the proportion of wards in the bottom 20% of SIMD - Buckhaven.  https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-index-of-multiple-deprivation-2020v2-local-and-national-share-calculator-2/ 

SIMD is very blunt, but let's not get into that here. 

A bit off topic I know, but it’s sickening when you consider the amount of money that Diageo make out of the Cameronbridge distillery in that same ward (Johnnie Walker, Gordon’s and Smirnoff amongst the other products made there).

[Gordon EF]

42 minutes ago, Binos said:

I was joking about fife...but prejudice of any kind and poverty do usually go hand in hand

Is there not some stat that of the 10 most deprived wards in Scotland half are in Fife, which for a region with no cities is some going

Not sure if that was an old list but as of Jan 2020, only one of the top 10 is in Fife.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51279966

[Binos]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

Not sure if that was an old list but as of Jan 2020, only one of the top 10 is in Fife.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-51279966

Yeah I think I invented my list

Still trying to find it

[Stellaboz]

17 minutes ago, ali_91 said:

I could have picked you up wrong here, but this reads like a comparison and like you are saying that people of a BAM background are promoted to positions out of their depth due to the quota system, which is absolutely not the case. 
 

The quota system is in place in the majority of companies because it is widely recognised that board rooms tend to be disproportionately white and male, and unless you think that being white and male makes you inherently more likely to be able to perform a management role, then that needs to change, and ensuring x% of appointments are a certain demographic is a quick way of addressing the imbalance. 

My intention isn't really to make a comparison and say that people of a BAM background are being promoted out of their depth. It's just trying to think about it in a scenario that we could all relate to (our football clubs) and how messy it would be if a quota was introduced in Scottish football. 

After giving this a little more thought, my point is more about how I don't think a quota of people of certain skin colour/ethnic background is always going to be fair to everyone involved....( but my approach to life is to take people as you meet them regardless of whom they may be... and I wish more people would take up a similar view ) but I understand that for now it's needed to some degree.  

[Gordon EF]

46 minutes ago, GordonS said:

Are those figures from the 2011 census? If so, they're a bit out of date now.

In any case, that's more than one in forty in Scotland from an Asian background. In Glasgow that's over 10%, and has been for a long time. Are 10% of the youth players in Glasgow football clubs from Asian-origin families? From what I've seen almost none are.

If, for example, each Premiership club had a first team squad of 25, half of who are Scottish, that's 150 players. You'd expect to see 4-5 Scots Asians in there at any one time. I can think of literally one Scots Asian professional footballer, and he's retired.

I think this highlights some of the difficulties with very broad stroke quotas or racial comparisons. I worked for a company on Cumbria with around 250 people. I'm pretty sure Cumbria is one of, if not the, whitest parts of England. As far I remember, there was only one BAME person employed there (who was mixed race and very much 'white passing'). Now that is below the % for Cumbria in total but it's not insane and probably not particularly unusual for the area. If that was the case for a 250 employee company in London, that would be outrageous.

[Sergeant Wilson]

57 minutes ago, Hedgecutter said:

If you’re white and speak English then you’re generally treated as one of us, especially those from the ROI 

Aye, that'll be right!

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 minute ago, Gordon EF said:

I think this highlights some of the difficulties with very broad stroke quotas or racial comparisons. I worked for a company on Cumbria with around 250 people. I'm pretty sure Cumbria is one of, if not the, whitest parts of England. As far I remember, there was only one BAME person employed there (who was mixed race and very much 'white passing'). Now that is below the % for Cumbria in total but it's not insane and probably not particularly unusual for the area. If that was the case for a 250 employee company in London, that would be outrageous.

I live in East Yorkshire, and that is a claim which I've heard around here as well. I reckon, once you get outside of the major conurbations, the demographics shift massively. Might be a reason that a lot of the racism we hear down here is about Eastern Europeans rather than Caribbean and South Asian immigrants and their descendants.

[Shotgun]

1 hour ago, Gordon EF said:

I worked for a company on Cumbria with around 250 people. I'm pretty sure Cumbria is one of, if not the, whitest parts of England.

I grew up in Kendal, Cumbria. At the time, the population was around 25-26 thousand and I doubt if there were 20 BAME people. Unscientific observations from my visits back suggest that little, if anything, has changed.

The number of racists there was horrendous though. Around 1988, we had a black policeman transferred in and the shit that poor b*****d got was ridiculous.

[The Moonster]

18 hours ago, MSU said:

"Rule of thumb" is another phrase with a dodgy past, as it apparently dates back to a law that said you couldn't beat your wife with anything thicker than the width of your thumb.

I was told that the phrase "under the cosh" comes from slave ships too. If they wanted the slaves to work harder they would batter them with a big blunt thing and hence the work force would be "under the cosh". No idea if that's true but it sounds plausible.

[Turkmenbashi]

I live in a city which is around 20% non white and work in a office of maybe 200 people and I have one colleague who is of Chinese origin and everyone else is white. Working in IT, I'm used to where I work being quite diverse and it was noticeable when I first started how white the office really was. This then leaves the question, is that do we have a racist hiring policy, or are problems starting earlier because everyone I work with is I assume to be university educated. So does the problem go back to schools/universities, and bringing in quotas would really mean bringing in someone substandard, or are ethnic minorities getting overlooked for roles for racist, whether consciously or subconscious reasons. Idk

[Sergeant Wilson]

17 minutes ago, throbber said:

I see David Williams is coming under more fire on twitter because of his stereotyping in his books.

No doubt I'll out myself as a massive racist, but I tend to be more offended by the just eat advert with Snoop Dog as a more offensive racial stereotype than Walliams who ridicules pretty much everybody. I understand Snoop being black might make difference, but to me it looks a bit like a black man subserviently playing what a white man thinks a pimp looks like.

I suppose you could be offended by both...or neither...maybe...

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Do BAME even care about the “offensive” parts of the book? I imagine a number of the books would have bought by minorities.

This may sound shocking but is she’s making a big deal about it to go viral and in reality she doesn’t give a shit about minorities at all.

[bennett]

Never read any of his books but a quick google shows that he's sold 37 million of them.  If you like them then buy them and if you don't... then don't,  life is too short.

 

 

 

 

[Sergeant Wilson]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

Never read any of his books but a quick google shows that he's sold 37 million of them.  If you like them then buy them and if you don't... then don't,  life is too short.

 

 

 

 

I think that was Warwick Davies.