George Floyd/Black Lives Matter Protests

[heedthebaa]

22 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I find the term ‘jock’ really offensive, its because its generally associated with some kind of negative connotation or stereotype, usually said by an English or Welsh person sneering at you. So i can understand why chinese and pakistani people associated the previously stated terms as racist and negative. Its usually followed by some kind of derogatory statement or offensive comment.
What annoys me most about the ‘jock’ thing is when Scottish people laugh about it or dont challenge/let themselves be called it and be spoken down to or demeaned, its quite prevalent in the armed forces and quite a lot of guys I know, im talking people who have been paras etc just seem to snap into some kind of subservient ‘i must entertain or do something for you’ type mindset.
I know the term isnt even on the same scale of racism that the aforementioned phrases are, but it still pisses me off. Its hard to express just why, but it just causes the seethe to build.

Jock isn’t a word I’d use, nor would I use Taffy or Paddy towards the welsh and Irish. I fucking love this country, although  I’ve never really felt welcomed. It just seems to have ramped up a bit, from fitba banter to something more malicious in recent years. Maybe it’s where I live, with more cross border interaction 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Jock isn’t a word I’d use, nor would I use Taffy or Paddy towards the welsh and Irish. I fucking love this country, although  I’ve never really felt welcomed. It just seems to have ramped up a bit, from fitba banter to something more malicious in recent years. Maybe it’s where I live, with more cross border interaction 

Oh i totally agree i think theres an absolutely mental element of the indy campaign who are scary in their hatred of all things England, im pro indy, but I shudder when I read some of the shite that quite well followed ‘cybernat’ type accounts put on twitter. Im sorry that youre seeing a rise in abuse etc, whats almost as bad as those who perhaps dont partake in it but pretend that it isnt an issue when it clearly is.

Btw you completely are welcome here!!

[Tutankhamen]

Just now, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Oh i totally agree i think theres an absolutely mental element of the indy campaign who are scary in their hatred of all things England, im pro indy, but I shudder when I read some of the shite that quite well followed ‘cybernat’ type accounts put on twitter. Im sorry that youre seeing a rise in abuse etc, whats almost as bad as those who perhaps dont partake in it but pretend that it isnt an issue when it clearly is.

Could try looking at the social media you use.

Just a thought.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Could try looking at the social media you use.
Just a thought.

I do thats where I see the abusive stuff?

[Dee Man]

1 hour ago, heedthebaa said:

I’m English, but lived my whole adult life in Scotland and have had it all that time. Doesn’t bother me if I’m honest, but it has gotten worse the last 8-10 years. 

What sort of abuse have you been getting? Please don't say sassenach - that has to be the worst attempted putdown in history. 

[Tight minge]

Fair enough, well tbh Asia is not something I know too much about alltho I've been there on holiday, My partner is from the Caribbean, we didn't really talk much about race in the early stages so I just did what I thought I ought to and not mention it or make a deal of it,  when we first went to visit Jamaica where her family still lives I decided the best course of action was just to keep my mouth firmly shut and only open it to be as nice an polite as possible because I had it in my head that most people there would hate white people, especialy someone from the UK , I mean why wouldn't they? you couldn't exactly judge them for it if they did .  It was upon listening to a conversation with her and a relative about another white man how his behavior and actions would normally be totally unacceptable yet he was always getting away with it , only he could get away with it. curiosity got the better of me and I asked how this was?  " because he is white " was the clear and concise answer I got from both of them, again confused I asked how this could be ? its a black country after all?  " it's not a Blackmans country at all " was the answer.  Yes the majority are black however the lighter your skin tone the higher up the socio economic ladder you are ( I believe asia is like this too ?) Those of mixed African and European hertige occupy the upper middle classes to themselves, darker skinned people can have as much money as they want but they are not ever part of that group.  Usian bolt was treated like shite from his lighter neighbors when he bought a house  in an affluent neighborhood and he's probably the most famous living Jamaican .   As full Caucasians are tiny in number any white expats are seeked out by these cliques and suddenly find themselves invited to be amongst them . before long many end up acting like old colonials even if that wasn't their original intention.
Fuckin hell was the only thing I could think of when I learned of all this.  for the rest of the holiday I watched this invisible apartheid at work and it seemed to be true, In fact from my (limited) observation the whole place seemed to be suffering collective Stockholm syndrome.
Anyway I'm no looking to get sidetracked . we do have a lot to answer for tho

I can imagine things to be somewhat different in the Caribbean. Yes skin tone does come in to play here in many parts. Darker = labourer/farmer/fisherman/etc, lighter: Socialite.

A lot of all this depends on who you speak to and how open they will be. I was invited for dinner to a friends house in India and afterwards chatting with him and his daughter about the Raj. I am asking about the negativity of British rule and he was ‘gushing’ how wonderful the British were. I kept challenging, but he was insistent that the British were great and then announced the caste system no longer existed. His daughter who was around 18 and heading to Uni finally jumped and listed everything bad about the Empire (and there was a massive list), how the caste system is still a huge issue and the entitled thrive.

A lot of the times, as an outsider, you are told what the people expect you want to hear. I don’t mean that towards what you have written above which I have no doubt is true as I have seen this sort of scenario in ex-colonial places where the white rulers that leave are just replaced with a local elitist element carrying on ‘tradition’ through prejudice this time of their own people.

Chances are as a white person ‘intermarrying’, the close family at first would have not been too happy, but once they accept you and your partners decision they will be great to you. Chances are, your partner will get more shit from local strangers for being with you than any prejudice directed at you.

Your are right about sidetracked, this isn’t anything to compare against BLM, but probably shows that prejudices exist everywhere, its human nature and will always exist.

*A lot of racism is driven through ignorance and lack of understanding of another persons culture which is easily magnified through incorrect perceptions and falsehoods. If your willing to understand someone else’s circumstances it’s harder to be a racist/bigoted.

Having lived overseas for so long, especially in Asia I can claim that some of my best friends are racist.

[Guest JTS98]

6 hours ago, Tight John McVeigh is a tit said:

Chances are as a white person ‘intermarrying’, the close family at first would have not been too happy, but once they accept you and your partners decision they will be great to you. Chances are, your partner will get more shit from local strangers for being with you than any prejudice directed at you.

I once got gobbed on at Gangnam subway station in Seoul and the boy who did it shouted something at the lassie I was with (a Korean colleague who I'd just bumped into on the train and was walking to the office with).

I don't speak Korean so asked what he'd said. She said he'd called her a traitor and a whore.

f**k knows what happens if you marry one of them!

[Honest_Man#1]

10 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I find the term ‘jock’ really offensive, its because its generally associated with some kind of negative connotation or stereotype, usually said by an English or Welsh person sneering at you. So i can understand why chinese and pakistani people associated the previously stated terms as racist and negative. Its usually followed by some kind of derogatory statement or offensive comment.
What annoys me most about the ‘jock’ thing is when Scottish people laugh about it or dont challenge/let themselves be called it and be spoken down to or demeaned, its quite prevalent in the armed forces and quite a lot of guys I know, im talking people who have been paras etc just seem to snap into some kind of subservient ‘i must entertain or do something for you’ type mindset.
I know the term isnt even on the same scale of racism that the aforementioned phrases are, but it still pisses me off. Its hard to express just why, but it just causes the seethe to build.

I got this plenty when living in England, and it didn’t bother me much at all, in fact I just took it as the banter it was intended and actually quite enjoyed having digs back and forth. It’s different if someone is saying it in a manner that is to be intentionally aggressive/abusive, but the actual word doesn’t offend me. 
 

One thing that annoys me is things like your statement where someone tells you that you must  be offended by something. No, I absolutely don’t have to be offended by some banter with someone and speak out against it. Fair enough if you are and want to, but you don’t decide for others.

[throbber]

11 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

I find the term ‘jock’ really offensive, its because its generally associated with some kind of negative connotation or stereotype, usually said by an English or Welsh person sneering at you.

I find it more offensive receiving belittling comments about whisky, bagpipes and kilts if I’m honest. The term jock is largely banter that you can fight back with Gammon, Morris dancer, Pom or sheep shagger if they are Welsh.

[Savage Henry]

1 hour ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

I got this plenty when living in England, and it didn’t bother me much at all, in fact I just took it as the banter it was intended and actually quite enjoyed having digs back and forth. It’s different if someone is saying it in a manner that is to be intentionally aggressive/abusive, but the actual word doesn’t offend me. 
 

One thing that annoys me is things like your statement where someone tells you that you must  be offended by something. No, I absolutely don’t have to be offended by some banter with someone and speak out against it. Fair enough if you are and want to, but you don’t decide for others.

Exactly.  If anything, it’s used as a term of endearment in many cases.  And, of course, this isn’t about us.

[craigkillie]

It absolutely is a racist term, and deciding that you don't mind it doesn't make it any less racist for other people. It's the equivalent of "my pal doesn't mind when we call him a paki, he finds it endearing really". While it's obviously not on the same scale as many other types of racism that happens on a daily basis, including in this country, that doesn't mean it should be laughed off or ignored.

[The Moonster]

I know it's pedantic but it isn't racist, it's xenophobic.

[Jacksgranda]

There was a mate of mine who would occasionally ask me "How do you like this country now, Jock?". I just replied "It's not so bad, Paddy."

Apart from that instance I've never been called "Jock", so no idea how annoying/iritating/rage inducing I would find it being called "Jock" on a regular basis.

An ex of mine's father was known as "Jock", he was a Fifer, I don't think it annoyed him, everyone called him "Jock", even his wife.

The only other "Jock" I knew wasn't even Scottish.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

It absolutely is a racist term, and deciding that you don't mind it doesn't make it any less racist for other people. It's the equivalent of "my pal doesn't mind when we call him a paki, he finds it endearing really". While it's obviously not on the same scale as many other types of racism that happens on a daily basis, including in this country, that doesn't mean it should be laughed off or ignored.

Yep.

[Cheese]

We should simply just reclaim the word Jock and start calling each other it.

In about 5 years time, union jack twitter will be mewling about 'how come they are allowed to use the J word but it's racist when I say it ?

[Mr Waldo]

Ah well, that's The Dandy on the banned list now.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

6 minutes ago, Mr Waldo said:

Ah well, that's The Dandy on the banned list now.

What always weirded me out about that was that the Jocks and the Geordies always spoke like 50s stereotype public schoolboys. The only thing that marked either out were they big daft hats. 
 

[Honest_Man#1]

2 hours ago, craigkillie said:

It absolutely is a racist term, and deciding that you don't mind it doesn't make it any less racist for other people. It's the equivalent of "my pal doesn't mind when we call him a paki, he finds it endearing really". While it's obviously not on the same scale as many other types of racism that happens on a daily basis, including in this country, that doesn't mean it should be laughed off or ignored.

Only speaking about my post, but it’s absolutely not the equivalent of your statement I’ve bolded as I’m only speaking about myself, and not in any way saying others should not be offended by it as you have suggested I am with the “my pal” line. 

[Savage Henry]

2 hours ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said:

We should simply just reclaim the word Jock and start calling each other it.

In about 5 years time, union jack twitter will be mewling about 'how come they are allowed to use the J word but it's racist when I say it ?

We could call it the Union Jock.

[tongue_tied_danny]

11 hours ago, JTS98 said:

I once got gobbed on at Gangnam subway station in Seoul and the boy who did it shouted something at the lassie I was with (a Korean colleague who I'd just bumped into on the train and was walking to the office with).

I don't speak Korean so asked what he'd said. She said he'd called her a traitor and a whore.

f**k knows what happens if you marry one of them!

I've a mate who lived in Japan for a couple of years.

He said he was out with his Japanese girlfriend one day. Some guy who was about 80 spat at his feet and then  said to his girlfriend: "this American dog has got AIDS". 

Edited July 10, 2020 by tongue_tied_danny