Genuine Hibs Fan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, Stormzy said: Well firstly I didn't say "no racist aspect" I said I'd imagine the majority were booing for the reasons I've mentioned before, not because they are racist people. The only evidence provided to show that they are racist is that others believe they are, lol... Funnily enough I don't think ostracizing non racist people will combat racism considering I don't believe they're racist in the first place, seems a bit of a waste of time. I think there's plenty of alternatives to combat racism other than taking a knee at the football and of course if someone is being racist at the football then they should be ostracized and punished appropriately. I would say deciding to boo a bunch of players taking an anti racist position through taking a knee, and being completely incoherent in the alternative reasoning provided for doing so, is a pretty clear indication of racist intent. It's hard as always to see what your point is anyway as you say you only "imagine" that "the majority" coincidentally fall into your odd take on it, so even you agree that there is at least a level of racist intent involved. But then you go on to say that you don't think they (presumably any) are racist in the first place. So your solution is that players should stop taking the knee in response to a backlash because in your opinion those booing aren't actually racist? Sounds like a great idea to me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) On 25/05/2021 at 07:34, dorlomin said: So a complete nobody with some wild crank political views attending what was likely an illegal house party in Peckham (more than 6 people) got shot. Instead of it being an unnoticed statistic in London it became national news because her "party" (800 follower in twitter) tried to insinuate a political motive, from there all the speculation and wild takes emerged. Hope she gets better. Hope to never hear of her again. Yeah, it's a lot more comfortable dealing with statistics than it is with people. And what people - breaking Covid assembly rules and all. Hanging's too good for them! I'm afraid you'll continue to hear from her - and others, like me, who don't really see the lockdown violation as massively relevant here - until we have a country where, for example, England football fans don't abuse their own players (of all races) for taking a stance against racism. Do I agree with all that TTIP, or indeed BLM, espouse? No, and neither do I think that there was a political motive in this crime. Wrong place, wrong time seems to sum it up. That place being, btw, in the street near the house where the gathering was taking place. Undeniably, Sasha's profile led to this being headline news. Maybe the problem here is that too many members of minority communities end up as statistics, rather than the MSM actually putting a name and face to a victim for a change? Edited June 7, 2021 by WhiteRoseKillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bairnardo Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: I would say deciding to boo a bunch of players taking an anti racist position through taking a knee, and being completely incoherent in the alternative reasoning provided for doing so, is a pretty clear indication of racist intent. It's hard as always to see what your point is anyway as you say you only "imagine" that "the majority" coincidentally fall into your odd take on it, so even you agree that there is at least a level of racist intent involved. But then you go on to say that you don't think they (presumably any) are racist in the first place. So your solution is that players should stop taking the knee in response to a backlash because in your opinion those booing aren't actually racist? Sounds like a great idea to me! We are uncomfortable being branded as racist when we openly boo your anti-racist message, so if you could just stop your message, we can all be happy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, coprolite said: I think you're underestimating the amount of casual racism still kicking about. Of the people that booed at players taking the knee, i'd wager that a significant majority hold some racist views whether or not they also dress them up with this "left behind" bullshit. They might not be out randomly attacking minorities but they'd be disappointed if their sister married outside the race. Perhaps I am, I'd say a lot of people are probably overestimating it but i don't see how we can tell. 14 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: Correction. We're talking about people who think they aren't racist being called racist. They might not be racist though. 12 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: I would say deciding to boo a bunch of players taking an anti racist position through taking a knee, and being completely incoherent in the alternative reasoning provided for doing so, is a pretty clear indication of racist intent. It's hard as always to see what your point is anyway as you say you only "imagine" that "the majority" coincidentally fall into your odd take on it, so even you agree that there is at least a level of racist intent involved. But then you go on to say that you don't think they (presumably any) are racist in the first place. So your solution is that players should stop taking the knee in response to a backlash because in your opinion those booing aren't actually racist? Sounds like a great idea to me! As always you're being needlessly patronising and either misunderstanding my words intentionally or just not quite grasping the point. I'm going to go with the former considering you've yet again done a "so your" then adding something I've never said. For clarity there are plenty of positive things people can do to combat racism, taking the knee at the football is certainly one of them I just think it's false to describe everyone that booed as doing so because they're racist when some of them are probably just stupid. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Booing players taking the knee is 100% racist. All the whining about 'politics' and 'Marxism' isn't going to cover that up.Fair play to Southgate for calling it out.I fear that England fans won't be the only ones to embarrass themselves over the next month. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said: We are uncomfortable being branded as racist when we openly boo your anti-racist message, so if you could just stop your message, we can all be happy. Even if you're naive/contrary enough to believe that those booing have a firm understanding and principled opposition to Marxism, or stupid enough to not see that it is just an excuse that isn't understood by those espousing it (before we get into the potential dog whistles of Marxism being against are values and therefore forrin), to suggest the best course of action is one that would massively embolden racists is a gold plated take. Personally I thought they should have stopped taking the knee routinely a while ago as, especially in empty stadiums, it seemed to have lost impact. The opposite is true now and if it has racists and their enablers showing their arse and being challenged I'm all for it. Good on them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: They clearly have a simplistic take that chucks BLM in alongside their views on Marxism/lefty politics. They're polarised gammon types and they clearly view the taking the knee alongside the statue stuff/brexit rhetoric. They probably incorrectly think they're being attacked for being unashamed of Britain and therefore associate the act as a political statement that they interpret as being an assault on their values. I think the percentage of those that are booing purely because they don't like other races will be absolutely minimal. They're stupid, and racist. FTFY. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Blades Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 As always you're being needlessly patronising and either misunderstanding my words intentionally or just not quite grasping the point. I'm going to go with the former considering you've yet again done a "so your" then adding something I've never said. For clarity there are plenty of positive things people can do to combat racism, taking the knee at the football is certainly one of them I just think it's false to describe everyone that booed as doing so because they're racist when some of them are probably just stupid. If we follow your logic to the end, wouldn’t it be the case that some (in your reckoning the majority) people carrying out racist attacks, whether verbal or physical or indeed perpetuating systemic racism / sexism / homophobia etc in society aren’t actually racist, just really stupid? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Stormzy said: That could be the case, i get the feeling the old school skinhead types that get annoyed by the sight of black people aren't exactly following the national team as much as they used to do. You don't have to join some NF/BNP association in today's England to find a group where your views that people who are not "like us" are inferior are acceptable, if not de rigeur. Look at what they elected to govern these benighted Islands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 minute ago, Stormzy said: As always you're being needlessly patronising and either misunderstanding my words intentionally or just not quite grasping the point. I'm going to go with the former considering you've yet again done a "so your" then adding something I've never said. For clarity there are plenty of positive things people can do to combat racism, taking the knee at the football is certainly one of them I just think it's false to describe everyone that booed as doing so because they're racist when some of them are probably just stupid. Oh no have you been patronized again? Sorry to hear that To be fair mate it's not hard to understand your point it's just aggressively stupid. Much love anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
effeffsee_the2nd Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 hour ago, Bairnardo said: Isn't being people unintentially, unconsciously or indirectly racist sort of the whole point of the reinvigorated movement? People are repeatedly told this, and none more so than football fans by current and former footballers. If you continue to boo the knee on the basis of "BuT mArXiSm" then you probably deserve the racist tag. There is quite simply no need to do it and the Marxism thing reeks of, thats a just about passable excuse for me to hide behind when I get pulled for booing the uppity brown people. this, nobody gives a f**k about marxism, nobody ever felt the need to boo marxism in a football stadium, nobody felt the need to protest marxism, just as it's not acceptable to punch a stranger in the street for no reason , it's not acceptable to boo a movement for opposing racism so you need to give yourself a wee excuse marxism = BLM were lookin at ma burd funny 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 5 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Oh no have you been patronized again? Sorry to hear that To be fair mate it's not hard to understand your point it's just aggressively stupid. Much love anyway *Needlessly patronised. It's alright if someone's more intelligent than you and pointing something out whilst being lofty but when it's your performative inspired forum patter it comes across as needless and trying a bit too hard. It wasn't stupid at all you're just a bit wound up after a swing and a miss, I'm sure you'll do better next time though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 16 minutes ago, Brother Blades said: If we follow your logic to the end, wouldn’t it be the case that some (in your reckoning the majority) people carrying out racist attacks, whether verbal or physical or indeed perpetuating systemic racism / sexism / homophobia etc in society aren’t actually racist, just really stupid? No that's not my logic at all, in those instances you've defined them as racist attacks so clearly there are racist by defintion, if you said all attacks by people of different races are racist attacks in nature then I'd disagree. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 45 minutes ago, Stormzy said: Why would I think that? Perhaps you've had trouble following the discussion, we were talking about people that aren't racist being called racist. Nah, you were trying to explain that people exhibiting racist behaviour weren't racist. And not doing it very convincingly, in all honesty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Stormzy said: *Needlessly patronised. It's alright if someone's more intelligent than you and pointing something out whilst being lofty but when it's your performative inspired forum patter it comes across as needless and trying a bit too hard. It wasn't stupid at all you're just a bit wound up after a swing and a miss, I'm sure you'll do better next time though. Sure thing bud! Enjoy the rest of your day, maybe read a darned book or something Edited June 7, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, WhiteRoseKillie said: Nah, you were trying to explain that people exhibiting racist behaviour weren't racist. And not doing it very convincingly, in all honesty. No I wasn't. We established about 3 pages back that I believe the majority of the people booing weren't exhibiting racist behaviour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Stormzy said: No I wasn't. We established about 3 pages back that I believe the majority of the people booing weren't exhibiting racist behaviour. Er, no. You gave your opinion about three pages ago. ..and every other user who has posted in those three pages has disagreed with this frankly risible belief. If, indeed, it is your belief, and you're not just trying to be edgy. Edited June 7, 2021 by WhiteRoseKillie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, Stormzy said: No that's not my logic at all, in those instances you've defined them as racist attacks so clearly there are racist by defintion, if you said all attacks by people of different races are racist attacks in nature then I'd disagree. 7 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said: Sure thing bud! Enjoy the rest of your day, maybe read a darned book or something I think we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 13 minutes ago, Stormzy said: No that's not my logic at all, in those instances you've defined them as racist attacks so clearly there are racist by defintion, if you said all attacks by people of different races are racist attacks in nature then I'd disagree. So who gets to define a racist attack, then? (A clue - there is a legally tested answer to this). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 4 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: Er, no. You gave your opinion about three pages ago. ..and every other user who has posted in those three pages has disagreed with this frankly risible belief. If, indeed, it is your belief, and you're not just trying to be edgy. No, the poster below got the initial point I've made, everything after this has been bad faith arguments. 3 hours ago, coprolite said: That's a very fair point, but i think there's a larger percentage that is at least partly motivated by a dislike of dark skin or foreign types. 3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said: I think we all know that's not going to happen anytime soon. I was just about to start The Light Fantastic as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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