LongTimeLurker Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 19 hours ago, HuttonDressedAsLahm said: ...Being in any way different to one of the worst responses to the biggest crises in generations is hardly profound stuff. Back in August I posted on here that I thought October looked optimistic for a restart and that I wouldn't be surprised if it were January instead because a bit of a second wave was likely on trying to move back closer to normality after a strict lockdown (think schools and unis reopening, for example) and Nicola S has a track record of playing it very safe. Not really interested in some Holyrood vs Westminster argument on this. Small cosmetic changes to what Westminster is doing still makes Holyrood part of one of the worst responses. The only reason the morgues were not overflowing back in April is that the IFR fatality rate turned out to be a lot lower than feared. If it had really been 2% the entire UK would have sleepwalked into disaster. Edited October 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmontheloknow Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 There is a lot of comparing apples and oranges. "Why are we shut but the pubs are open?" Pubs & restaurants shouldn't be opened but it is too costly to the economy for them not to be. "Why did East Stirlingshire have their squad go into 14 days self isolation when the SPFL Premiership clubs play on as normal with only those positive affected? We are the same!" The SPFL Premiership players are regularly tested on a private basis and are living in a bubble. Joe Bloggs who plays for £80 a week at whoever is treated as every other employee in the country outwith elite sport. Anyone in my work who is within 2m of a positive case for more than 15mins goes into a fortnight of self-isolation. It has happened. And it's what has happened to the Shire. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 22 minutes ago, cmontheloknow said: "Why did East Stirlingshire have their squad go into 14 days self isolation when the SPFL Premiership clubs play on as normal with only those positive affected? We are the same!" The SPFL Premiership players are regularly tested on a private basis and are living in a bubble. Joe Bloggs who plays for £80 a week at whoever is treated as every other employee in the country outwith elite sport. Anyone in my work who is within 2m of a positive case for more than 15mins goes into a fortnight of self-isolation. It has happened. And it's what has happened to the Shire. Premiership players aren't living in a bubble, they still go home to their families. Annan Athletic had four players test positive yet we've not heard of the whole club being told to self-isolate. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Ginaro said: Premiership players aren't living in a bubble, they still go home to their families. Annan Athletic had four players test positive yet we've not heard of the whole club being told to self-isolate. But they did suspend everything dependent on getting Test & Results back. At which point nobody knows what Annan & East Stirlingshire were told and how it may have lead to different outcomes. Edited October 1, 2020 by FairWeatherFan 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: But they did suspend everything dependent on getting Test & Results back. At which point nobody knows what Annan & East Stirlingshire were told and how it may have differed to lead to different outcomes. Saw tweets from a player saying they'd even told their families to self-isolate as well. Looks like that was a mistake... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Blastie Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 ...would be a very fitting epitaph for FWF when the time comes. Good to see there are opt out opportunities without any penalty in an LL context. Really fear for Bo'ness United in that context if Nicola Sturgeon uses lower level football to be different from Boris because crowds do very much matter for them unlike a lot of the clubs they will be up against in an LL context, who have funding models that do not rely on having much of an active fanbase. Too bad Alex Salmond isn't still the SNP head honcho. Not sure to what extent he is a Lithgae Rose fan (have heard Hearts were always more his team) but have been told that some of his immediate family definitely are/were, so if he was still calling the shots it would be a lot easier to get lower level football onto the political radar. The fear with Nicola S is that she sees the current crisis as a way to exact some sort of Scottish housewife's revenge against the football by pushing it way down the list of priorities. As you can see from this forum there are plenty of SNP activists/supporters who will never question any SG decision no matter how illogical and will relentlessly push the party line no matter what, so there probably aren't many political people giving her negative feedback on stuff like this, if she is the key to career advancement.What a load of pish... Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mystic Blastie Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 If the Tories were in power at Holyrood (I definitely don't want this!), it would be Sewel motion after Sewel motion and SG policy very much in lockstep with Westminster's in times of crisis. The SNP inherently want everything to be different from Westminster. It's their whole raison d'etre.Why are we getting this politics pish on here. Enough of that on BBC. Sent from my PRA-LX1 using Pie and Bovril mobile app 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Mystic Blastie said: Why are we getting this politics pish on here. Enough of that on BBC. in case you hadn't noticed this thread is about the restart of competitive football in a WoS contect. It is politicians who will decide when that happens based on their COVID regulations, because it won't happen without crowds. Edited October 1, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy groundhopper Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Haven't seen or heard any evidence that non lge in the North West is a big spreader, parts of the UK have had cases surge for many reasons. Can't see a restart in Scotland for non league even though fixtures are planned, IF all non lge players were tested weekly, would the game restart ? Very much doubt it. Another lockdown for Oct/Nov then see the gov panic in time for Christmas chaos. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthurlie1981 Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Haven't seen or heard any evidence that non lge in the North West is a big spreader, parts of the UK have had cases surge for many reasons. Can't see a restart in Scotland for non league even though fixtures are planned, IF all non lge players were tested weekly, would the game restart ? Very much doubt it. Another lockdown for Oct/Nov then see the gov panic in time for Christmas chaos. Maybe you haven’t heard but when things like this are changed it’s normally done because test and trace (or test and protect as it is in England) is seeing these as somewhere people are intimating they have been and potentially caught the virus there. And example of this in Scotland was the Aberdeen pubs when it was identified that’s where the infections were taking place or more currently it was identified that household gatherings are a big spreader across the west of Scotland. It won’t be an arbitrary decision for these areas as why wouldn’t you replicate it across the whole country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rncaa Posted October 1, 2020 Share Posted October 1, 2020 Great local mp for rutherglen and Hamilton west who spoke on behalf of rutherglen glencairn and non league football and fans returning made the 400 mile trip while having covid making UK wide news. Brilliant just brilliant. Someone turn the lights off for the season for the love me god this is getting painful now. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 The hysteria surrounding the "second wave" can only last for as long as the new cases curve is rising in an exponential manner and the tabloid media can fuel people's fears by neglecting to carefully explain that the deaths curve is massively smaller than what was happening back in April and testing is much more effective now. As soon as the new cases curve has passed through a plateau and is starting to consistently drop, the momentum will switch back to a resumption of the process of normalising society. It's too early to be certain but the last 9 days looks like a possible plateau rather than an ongoing exponential rise (big dips seem to coincide with weekends when there may not be as much testing happening, so the trend needs to be over two or three weeks to be sure) where the UK new cases numbers are concerned: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ In a month things could look very different. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Burmah Oil said: ...Way off saying football cant open in case people like you sue if catch it off barriers and all. You dont want football back so why would you go games? How could you prove where and when you caught it? And if your right how are the pubs, cafes, buses, bingos, rides and banger racings open? He doesn't seem to grasp that people are expected to take responsibility for their own welfare on this by regularly washing their hands properly and sanitising. If you have concerns about touching surfaces in any context then always have your own hand sanitiser and some tissues with you. Take the initiative rather than expecting to be wrapped up in cotton wool by other people. Wear a face mask to the extent possible when away from the house, especially in indoors settings (this is where opening pubs is highly questionable relative to something happening outdoors like football, as you inherently need to take a mask off in a riskier indoors setting to be able to drink). None of this is rocket science on how to do what you need to do on a personal level to massively lower your own risks, while also getting out and about. Edited October 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylangt7 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: people are expected to take responsibility for their own welfare ........ Take the initiative ......do what you need to do on a personal level to massively lower your own risks... BUT what a significant portion of the community don't appreciate or worse don't care is that that approach is selfish and doesnt work. There will always be an element of people that willingly or ignorantly take greater risks with their OWN welfare (see smoking, drink driving.....MPS who do 400 mile journeys, English Lower league fans in all the group pictures). We know we cant trust all individuals to wash their hands, wear a mask, reduce interaction, BUT they key point is they are putting OTHERS at risk. Its not enough just looking after yourself, its about looking after others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlansHotBath Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 On 01/10/2020 at 09:29, LongTimeLurker said: Too bad Alex Salmond isn't still the SNP head honcho. Not sure to what extent he is a Lithgae Rose fan (have heard Hearts were always more his team) but have been told that some of his immediate family definitely are/were, so if he was still calling the shots it would be a lot easier to get lower level football onto the political radar. The fear with Nicola S is that she sees the current crisis as a way to exact some sort of Scottish housewife's revenge against the football by pushing it way down the list of priorities. It's actually difficult to fathom the depths of how stupid this comment is. I would be willing to bet that this is because Sturgeon, Salmond, and any other former or potential FM doesn't give a solitary shit about 5th and 6th tier football, COVID-related concerns or otherwise, and it's not crossed their minds. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Dylangt7 said: BUT what a significant portion of the community don't appreciate or worse don't care is that that approach is selfish and doesnt work. There will always be an element of people that willingly or ignorantly take greater risks with their OWN welfare (see smoking, drink driving.....MPS who do 400 mile journeys, English Lower league fans in all the group pictures). We know we cant trust all individuals to wash their hands, wear a mask, reduce interaction, BUT they key point is they are putting OTHERS at risk. Its not enough just looking after yourself, its about looking after others. You are moving the goalposts away from the narrow context of what was being discussed, which was whether Hametoon JFC can be held legally responsible for what happens with COVID on a barrier at their ground. If you want to go down that route, I would question whether the UK's nanny state approach has actually worked relative to the more easy going Swedish sort of approach given the levels of non-compliance. The key is how you get the largest number of people to actually do the sensible things. Edited October 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylangt7 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 It wasn't an attempt to move any goal posts, my comment was a direct response to the bits i quoted. If you want to extrapolate out from my response that is fine. Its not enough to say we should all manage our own risk therefore open all grounds. I'm also not a Health and Safety (in the workplace) expert, So maybe someone can confirm. Hametoon FC as employers of part time footballers "could" be legally responsible for what happens inside their "place of work". Would they be liable to "paying customers" as well as a "Business"? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 (edited) There is zero chance you could ever conclusively prove someone got infected in the manner initially described. Edited October 2, 2020 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 Entire Kilmarnock squad told to self isolate. They'll probably challenge it like East Stirlingshire did. Quote A statement from the Scottish FA and SPFL joint response group said: "NHS Ayrshire & Arran Test and Protect Team carried out Covid-19 contact tracing following the six confirmed positive tests at the club. "As a result, the club has been advised by the local Problem Assessment Group that the whole playing squad should self-isolate for a 14-day period. This is in order to minimise the risk of further cases in the staff group and wider local community and to support Test and Protect. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54375702 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylangt7 Posted October 2, 2020 Share Posted October 2, 2020 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: There is zero chance you could ever conclusively prove someone got infected in the manner initially described. (Finds tinfoil hat) Unless they had, like.... some new surveillance technology, that could, like.... track and trace everywhere you had been and who you have been in extended contact with.... *legal disclaimer, i've seen the github for the scottish app and know it cant be used for that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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