Cancel culture

[Gordon EF]

18 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

What's interesting about this implementation of a handicap to curtail a natural "advantage" is the lack of similar measures taken elsewhere. There are solo sportspeople with clear physical advantages over their competition. Phelps being one particular example, but plenty of examples in sport where the physical makeup of an athlete puts them over the top in terms of getting results. Heavyweight boxing, and even boxing in general where the single criteria to be met is weight yet size often has a big say in a fight.

Also in team sports. We have effectively been told by the powers that be that PSG and Man City for example, have not gained their financial advantages in an unfair way. Mercedes absolutely battering f**k out of F1 seemingly all fair. All of these are globally supported teams.

Why is it that Caster Semenya is being singled out for this treatment? Why is no one actively clamouring for full on hormone regulation in athletics, with testing and treatment to ensure everyone is the same? That would be the fair way to do it no?

Of course, all of the above also assumes the validity of the advantage she has, the science for which seems to be pretty sketchy, and also dismisses the fact that she hasnt actually swept the board like some unbeatable 800m miracle since she started running, and also dismisses the hard work and dedication and talent she has, which are the real reasons for her success.

Someone of the language used by sanctimonious arsehole Seb Coe is pretty telling here and this article probably is the reason why at the time I said I thought Semenya was being used as a warning shot in the forthcoming battle between women's sport and the transgender community. https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1084951/seb-coe-on-caster-semenya-responsibility

The Caster Semenya case is a really difficult one for me in a lot of ways. I agree with a lot of what you say but don't agree that she's being singled out in a way that's hypocritical, given that we don't account for "natural" advantages in others sports.

Most sports simply don't have rules built in to account for advantages. Aside from weight classifications in combat sports, the only two that are fairly ubiquitous are age and sex. Rightly or wrongly, that's how sports works. There are plenty of different opinions about sex and gender and whatever your position, it's fairly clear that  sporting bodies are more likely to intervene when someone's age or sex is brought into question, as opposed to "He's really tall, it's no fair" from a short basketball player.

[Bairnardo]

12 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

The Caster Semenya case is a really difficult one for me in a lot of ways. I agree with a lot of what you say but don't agree that she's being singled out in a way that's hypocritical, given that we don't account for "natural" advantages in others sports.

Most sports simply don't have rules built in to account for advantages. Aside from weight classifications in combat sports, the only two that are fairly ubiquitous are age and sex. Rightly or wrongly, that's how sports works. There are plenty of different opinions about sex and gender and whatever your position, it's fairly clear that  sporting bodies are more likely to intervene when someone's age or sex is brought into question, as opposed to "He's really tall, it's no fair" from a short basketball player.

But she is being targeted in a proxy war against athletes who might potentially in the future, according to certain people, become transgender in order to take over women's sport. Its ridiculous by any measure. Singled out is precisely what's happening. She is a convenient test case for them.... Convenient in almost all ways, except that everything about her is completely natural and the way she was born, but too many folk have already decided to sacrifice their own dignity and hers at the altar of " aye but she looks a bit like a man eh?"

We are literally looking to handicap an athlete by way of using drugs. Honestly just stand back and think about that. That's what the final conclusion of all of this public, high profile humiliation she has endured is. That she cannot defend a title she dedicated her life to winning, perfectly legally, unless she agrees to change herself using drugs.

 

[ICTChris]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

What's interesting about this implementation of a handicap to curtail a natural "advantage" is the lack of similar measures taken elsewhere. There are solo sportspeople with clear physical advantages over their competition. Phelps being one particular example, but plenty of examples in sport where the physical makeup of an athlete puts them over the top in terms of getting results. Heavyweight boxing, and even boxing in general where the single criteria to be met is weight yet size often has a big say in a fight.

Also in team sports. We have effectively been told by the powers that be that PSG and Man City for example, have not gained their financial advantages in an unfair way. Mercedes absolutely battering f**k out of F1 seemingly all fair. All of these are globally supported teams.

Why is it that Caster Semenya is being singled out for this treatment? Why is no one actively clamouring for full on hormone regulation in athletics, with testing and treatment to ensure everyone is the same? That would be the fair way to do it no?

Of course, all of the above also assumes the validity of the advantage she has, the science for which seems to be pretty sketchy, and also dismisses the fact that she hasnt actually swept the board like some unbeatable 800m miracle since she started running, and also dismisses the hard work and dedication and talent she has, which are the real reasons for her success.

Someone of the language used by sanctimonious arsehole Seb Coe is pretty telling here and this article probably is the reason why at the time I said I thought Semenya was being used as a warning shot in the forthcoming battle between women's sport and the transgender community. https://www.insidethegames.biz/articles/1084951/seb-coe-on-caster-semenya-responsibility

I posted a thread about this on General Nonsense before and it has some good articles about the Caster Semenya issue.

The main difficulty with the Semenya case is that we divide athletics (and the vast majority of sport) into men and women's competition.  This is because men are, in the majoirty of cases and certainly when it comes to elite athletics, stronger and faster than women.  One reason for this is that men produce far more testosterone than women because men have testes whereas women have ovaries.  I don't think it's ever been publicly stated what condition Semenya has but it's likely to be an intersex condition where she has internal testes rather than ovaries, thus producing high levels of testosterone giving a potential advantage in athletics.

Regarding hormone regulation, testing and treatment, this does happen and there have been other athletes who have similar conditions and have gone through the same thing Semenya has, she is just the most high profile.  Also, I don't think anyone doubts her hard work and talent - you don't become an elite athlete without it, even if you have advantages.  

[Gordon EF]

5 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

But she is being targeted in a proxy war against athletes who might potentially in the future, according to certain people, become transgender in order to take over women's sport. Its ridiculous by any measure. Singled out is precisely what's happening. She is a convenient test case for them.... Convenient in almost all ways, except that everything about her is completely natural and the way she was born, but too many folk have already decided to sacrifice their own dignity and hers at the altar of " aye but she looks a bit like a man eh?"

We are literally looking to handicap an athlete by way of using drugs. Honestly just stand back and think about that. That's what the final conclusion of all of this public, high profile humiliation she has endured is. That she cannot defend a title she dedicated her life to winning, perfectly legally, unless she agrees to change herself using drugs.

 

I'm not arguing against any of that tbf. I'm just saying that the specific argument of "It's unfair to even focus on Caster Semenya when nobody bothers than Michael Phelps has natural physical advantages over other swimmers" doesn't make sense because the alleged advantage Semenya has is related to sex, which is something every single sport covers in it's rules. I don't know of any similar rule covering height, lung capacity, feet size, etc.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

You would never think that Seb Coe was a #Torycunt.  He just doesnt look the type.

Spoiler

 

[Bairnardo]

15 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

I'm not arguing against any of that tbf. I'm just saying that the specific argument of "It's unfair to even focus on Caster Semenya when nobody bothers than Michael Phelps has natural physical advantages over other swimmers" doesn't make sense because the alleged advantage Semenya has is related to sex, which is something every single sport covers in it's rules. I don't know of any similar rule covering height, lung capacity, feet size, etc.

I do understand it's a total minefield, and as no more than a sports fan and someone trying to navigate life and remain a decent c**t as much as I can, it's easy for me to maybe over simplify it, but this particular case is a gruelling watch with some really unsavoury stuff happening and I believe it to be a witch hunt and as I said, a proxy war with some really bigoted viewpoints driving it. The merits of the individual case get lost somewhat when it becomes clear that its not actually about the individual, who is simply being fed to the wolves as part of the above. 

[ICTChris]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

If this is such a big issue, how come we don't just do what they do for the paralympics? If you're more severely disabled than your competitors in a given sport you get an adjustment. It was all explained very well in 2013 on channel 4.

So every athlete should get a testosterone measurement pre-race and are then handicapped appropriately?  Or should we get rid of mens and women's athletics and operate by divisions of T ratings? 

To say that opens a can of worms is an understatement.  

[Detournement]

18 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

For the limited number of people involved and given the technology available to us these days, why not?

Because it would make a complete mockery of women's sport. 

It's funny how entrenched people are on this. For years saying she is biologically male and has functioning tested was a vicious slur according to her fans and now it's been confirmed as true it's seemingly irrelevant. If all this had been public when she first broke through I don't think she would have built up so much support. 

[dirty dingus]

3 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yes, shortly afterwards she was paraded like a hero at Snake Mountain. 

Was that not after she tweeted Big Jock Knew. Classy lassie.

[Detournement]

22 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

why?

 

Because in the men's 800m everyone would start together like a normal race and in the women's event they would handicapped like horses. It'd be like making the goals smaller for women's football.

 

[Shandon Par]

Bit rich of JK Rowling to have a go at people identifying as ladies when she identifies as a horse. 

[Detournement]

1 minute ago, MixuFruit said:

I don't follow why that would happen.

Your idea was to create a handicap system.

[Detournement]

2 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

right, but why would it only affect women?

Because there are no men who naturally have 10xs the average level of male testosterone production.

[dirty dingus]

JK Rowling is an arsehole and tried to compare Scottish indy movement  to far right blood and soil nationalist, she is also partial to doxing when an argument is going against her so she can go f**k herself.

[Gordon EF]

14 minutes ago, dirty dingus said:

JK Rowling is an arsehole and tried to compare Scottish indy movement  to far right blood and soil nationalist, she is also partial to doxing when an argument is going against her so she can go f**k herself.

I can't stand people who make sweeping generalisations about groups of people but every unionist reveals themselves to be a horrible person if you wait long enough.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Gordon EF

[Detournement]

17 minutes ago, MixuFruit said:

Why do you keep talking about testosterone?

Because that's what this particular CAS ruling is about. 

Also ICTChris suggested hypothetical test levelling and you said why not which kicked off this tedious conjecture. 

Edited September 16, 2020 by Detournement

[bennett]

On 15/09/2020 at 11:20, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Rowling is the fucking worst. She has completely Linehaned her career.

It'll probably go to number one in the book sales list due to all of this publicity. 

On 15/09/2020 at 08:27, ali_91 said:

There’s JK Rowling, who is absolutely not a bigot and just has some #genuineconcerns, releasing a book where the main protagonist is a man who dresses up as a woman to kill his victims.

Definitely not a bigot though! It’s actually the people intolerant of her that are the real bigots! 

Have you never watched psycho?

 

 

[Dunning1874]

4 hours ago, ICTChris said:

So every athlete should get a testosterone measurement pre-race and are then handicapped appropriately?  Or should we get rid of mens and women's athletics and operate by divisions of T ratings? 

To say that opens a can of worms is an understatement.  

That's the can of worms which has already been opened with the treatment of Caster Semenya. If it's appropriate to restrict which events one woman can compete in based on her naturally occurring levels of testosterone, or alternatively force her to comply with a set testerone level to compete in those events, why would it be wrong to do the exact same thing to every other athlete?

[Rugster]

2 hours ago, bennett said:

It'll probably go to number one in the book sales list due to all of this publicity. 

 

 

 

It’ll go to number 1 because she has millions of acolytes who would buy the phone book if she wrote it. 

[Bairnardo]

It’ll go to number 1 because she has millions of acolytes who would buy the phone book if she wrote it. 

Lured them in by playing long game with some shit about a wizard then started peddling hate on an enormous scale. Basically grooming IMO.