Cancel culture

[carpetmonster]

51 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

 

 

Planted some of these last week.

 

There might be money in the as yet untapped by florists ‘flowers for divorces’ market. 

[Guest]

There’s possibly an inverse relationship between a comedian’s success and their potential to be funny. The more successful they become, the more their lifestyle changes away from common folk and so the less relatable they become. Gervais is now at a stage where he’s emphatically out of touch. Comedians point out the humour in the banal, in the everyday. The Office was the perfect example of this. Gervais was fresh out of working in exactly those environments himself. Comedians’ material is always autobiographical to an extent. They can only do their observational comedy based on what they observe and what is Gervais’ life nowadays? Hanging out with celebrity friends, wining and dining himself, holidaying and reading a shitload of Twitter. So we get jokes about Twitter arguments between TERFS and trans activists as that’s all he’s been observing.

[BFTD]

1 hour ago, carpetmonster said:

A load of bored folks explaining to you that they’ve no huge interest in you typing out hackneyed jokes that you saw on the telly isn’t outrage M73. 

That about sums it up for me.

Big fan of Oaksoft's unhinged rants about paupers and assorted other people he considers beneath him, but this schizophrenic virtue/iniquity-signalling for attention is desperate stuff.

[yoda]

Quote

[Clarkson & Johnson's] careers have flourished by exploiting the notion that they are lone voices of sanity against a politically correct snowflake cabal intent on silencing normal blokes like them. Their comedy counterpart Ricky Gervais has managed to monetise this notion spectacularly, saying the things that he is apparently not allowed to say, on a variety of global media platforms, for millions of dollars, with the full co-operation and approval of the legal representatives of the institutions on which, and about which, he says the things he is not allowed to say, his functionally adequate standup act having been overpromoted worldwide off the back of his pitch-perfect contribution to the groundbreaking Office sitcom two decades ago.

 

[carpetmonster]

Oh dear - 

 

 

Said article - https://www.themarysue.com/ricky-gervais-cant-even-handle-a-trans-womans-joke-about-him/

[bennett]

People have got fed up with constantly being told what they can say/do/watch/laugh at/being dictated to. 

Ricky Gervais is playing on that.

 

[mathematics]

5 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

Gervais quoted as saying this in response to the criticism:

"I think that's what comedy is for, really - to get us through stuff, and I deal in taboo subjects because I want to take the audience to a place it hasn't been before, even for a split second".

 

Then here's a description of one of his jokes:

He then imagines a conversation with a woman who objects to sharing a bathroom with a trans woman: “They are ladies, look at their pronouns. What about this person isn’t a lady?” He then responds: “Well, his penis.”

So that's him "taking the audience to a place it hasn't been before"? Introducing to them the groundbreaking idea that transwomen may have biologically male anatomy? He thinks none of his audience have ever imagined that possibility before? 

You missed the actual punchline of the joke which goes on to talk about “her penis” because they’ve used the wrong pronouns.

Still wasn’t that funny, but you’ve missed the element of what that section was actually about.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, mathematics said:

You missed the actual punchline of the joke which goes on to talk about “her penis” because they’ve used the wrong pronouns.

Still wasn’t that funny, but you’ve missed the element of what that section was actually about.

I've not. The clip of that joke was actually posted in the next comment after mine too. My point wasn't on the quality of the joke as that's obviously subjective. My point was on the originality of the joke given Gervais' claim that he's breaking new ground. He isn't offering a new comic perspective with that joke or any of his other jokes about trans people in the show. 

[Satoshi]

Ricky Gervais really isn't even a stand up comedian, I'm surprised anyone is paying for or watching his shows.

There is no cancel culture here, he's entirely entitled to grift off this woke nonsense (as many others do) as are people pointing out how nonsensical and contradictory it is.

One would hope a successful millionaire might look to help disadvantaged groups rather than punching down and making their lives worse, but maybe Gervais is just a bit of a c**t (which does seem likely).

Is it edgy? Maybe if you're a fucking idiot I guess. Frankie Boyle and Jerry Sadowitz at least typically attacked those with power and influence, not those whose very existence is a crime in much of the world.

He's playing to the gallery and it's probably working for him, if you're enabling it then you're also part of the problem.

[milton75]

Having read this I went and watched it last night.

Unfortunately I've come to the conclusion that no-one is in the right and that overall it's just even more boring than I expected.

Immediate thoughts were: a lot of the jokes were obvious and not particularly funny. Also I could see why he was being accused of being unnecessarily cruel. 

Then on the other hand, some of the jokes were alright and did challenge the fact that we often rely on overly simplistic and trite mores. 

I do see the point about punching down, but there's a line in there where he says he'll treat everyone equally and that's why he has no issue including trans folk in his jokes. He's obviously getting his excuses in, but there's also a grain of truth in it.
Then on the other hand, this speaks less to our position on trans rights and more to our overall and societal hypocrisies, prejudices, etc. It's like the old complaint about comedians finding humour in slagging off Christians, and not doing the same for Muslims. And at the moment it does seem to me that the likes of Gervais are happy to say things about the trans community that they would no longer say about gay people or black people and so on and so forth.
And then in 5 years maybe no-one mainstream will be making trans jokes, but we'll be looking at something else being exposed as unacceptable. And that's fine. Society is fluid, and we should try to develop and not hurt others.

Then again, just to continue flip-flopping... I do sometimes get fed up with the Be Kind mantra. I was witness to a really tiresome exchange recently. Being a geeky comics fan I follow a lot of creators and fans on twitter etc. Comics, as some of you will know, have often very annoying fans. Gatekeeping keyboard warriors who are constantly scolding "newbs" about their perceived lack of right to be part of a group they've invested less time and money in. And on the flipside you have, sometimes performatively, good guys who are always desperate to show how welcoming and kind they are.

So anyway, the exchange was this:
1) Smalltime comic creator gets his work included in a collection. Posts proudly and happily about it.
2) Fan congratulates him but mentions that he wished another comic had also been included in the collection published.
3) Smalltime comic creator considers that comment to p***k his ego, and says "don't you realise this is a great thing for me? Please don't take away the happiness of the moment", or words to that effect.
4) Fan replies apologising but also mentioning that being admonished by smalltime comic creator has triggered his anxiety and he's now feeling publicly shamed.

And, of course, this all had a bunch of people adding their opinions on both sides. It was a riddy and a half. Everyone being pointlessly offended by everyone else. On the one hand I want to try to be the sort of person that puts empathy first. On the other hand I sometimes want to tell folk to STFU. 

This word salad was brought to you by me having nothing to do.

[Detournement]

All stand up comics are wankers. 

It may not always have been the case but it definitely is now. 

[Mr. Brightside]

17 hours ago, oaksoft said:

You deliberately cut out half the joke to make it look like his joke had ended there.

The joke wasn't about trans women having a penis. It was about pronouns and those who think enforcing them is the way forwards. No other comedian has made that specific subtle point. He did it twice. Firstly with the "her penis" line and then he reinforced it with the rape bit where the joke was that the misuse of pronouns was taken as worse than the threat of physical rape. In that sense it was original and clever.

By missing out two whole lines you deliberately misrepresented his joke to make it look like it was just another Bernard Manning style joke. It wasn't.

By all means, find it unfunny. That's your right. But treating everyone like idiots isn't helping your cause.

[ParsJake]

4 hours ago, milton75 said:

3) Smalltime comic creator considers that comment to p***k his ego, and says "don't you realise this is a great thing for me? Please don't take away the happiness of the moment", or words to that effect.
4) Fan replies apologising but also mentioning that being admonished by smalltime comic creator has triggered his anxiety and he's now feeling publicly shamed.

Can't help but think that if you don't want the apples, don't shake the tree.

[milton75]

2 hours ago, ParsJake said:

Can't help but think that if you don't want the apples, don't shake the tree.

Well, yes. Exactly right. 

But in the age of social media and public personas, any response to anything is "shaking the tree".

When it comes down to it the dichotomy I have is that in principle I want to not be a c-nt. And I hope others feel likewise. Then I encounter the actual individual people that make up any group in society, marginalised or otherwise, and I regularly find myself at best irritated.
I don't think I like people.

 

[Mr. Brightside]

1 hour ago, oaksoft said:

We no longer hear jokes by mainstream comedians about women, blacks, gays and a host of others, not because it's taboo but because it's all been said before. And as a society, mainstream people barely bat an eyelid at gays and blacks now. It's all tied together.

It's the exact same jokes, every single time. Tired hackneyed jokes by rubbish "comedians" who peaked 20 years ago. Absolutely nothing to add so they pick on a minority for cheap laughs. It's just a different minority each time. 

But no, according to you Ricky Gervais is making a nuanced, subtle point about pronouns. 

[welshbairn]

Most people haven't met a trans person so they're an easy target, only comeback he's likely to get is on twitter where he's likely to get as many praises for ridiculing them. He's always been very careful to pick targets who aren't powerful or might be able to damage his career.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, oaksoft said:

Really?

Then you haven't been paying attention to his Golden Globes speeches.

He slaughtered some people on stage who then told him to go elsewhere for funding for his next film.

What do you gain from saying stuff that isn't true? Is it just that usual warm glow of self righteousness? Or is there some greater purpose to all of this?

And he got invited back, and the money keeps rolling in, he's not stupid about who he targets. Jokes haven't changed much.

 

[coprolite]

22 hours ago, Satoshi said:

Ricky Gervais really isn't even a stand up comedian, I'm surprised anyone is paying for or watching his shows.

 

Here's an old Frankie Boyle bit that seems relevant, again. 

“

So I was thinking about all this recently, right, I was watching Netflix .. and I watched Ricky Gervaises new stand-up special and he does a big bit in it about trans women.

Now, I've got but love for trans women, nothing but love and support for trans folk in general. But they themselves would admit it's a very contentious that people try not to talk about. And Ricky Gervais obviously, he's a very powerful guy in show business. So nobody really who had the best years of their careers ahead of them would tell you what they thought of that routine.

Ricky Gervais, he does maybe fifteen minutes where he goes: well, if a trans woman can say that they are a woman, I can say that I'm a chimpanzee, I'm a chimpanzee: and my genuine reaction was, it's not that much weirder then Ricky Gervais saying that he's a stand-up comedian.

I mean look, we know Ricky Gervais, he's a brilliant actor, he's a brilliant writer, he's not a fucking stand-up comedian. Just cause Ricky Gervais self-identifies as a stand-up comedian, am I supposed to say he is one. It's fucking political correctness gone mad. (applause)

Also, loving animals brilliant, wonderful, going on about loving animals suspect. So I watched the whole of Ricky Gervaises show. I felt a bit like Fred Astaire watching a guy in calipers fall down an escalator."

[Mr. Brightside]

2 hours ago, oaksoft said:

That's right.

More importantly he has annoyed the shit out of the right type of people. Some of the over-reactions have been funnier than his show.

The state some of you are getting into over a few jokes is quite frankly lamentable but it's your problem, not mine.

I've watched the show, laughed at parts of it. And moved on.

There is nothing subtle or new about his comments on pronouns.

What state are "some of us" in exactly? Pointing out that Gervais is a rubbish stand-up comic who is picking on a minority to get his laughs from, which is more than likely a thin veneer to hide behind when he actually just dislikes trans people, like how almost all TERFs hide behind "women's right" to have a go at the trans community. Yeah some "state" right enough.

[Albus Bulbasaur]

Stand up comedy is shit in general. 

Gervais is more talented than Boyle and less odious and offensive.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Albus Bulbasaur