WoSFL Premier Division thread

[Greenmachine]

3 hours ago, glensmad said:

The SPFL are not a governing body with any say whatsoever in the affairs of the WoSFL. The Scottish FA approve the Constitution of the WoSFL and leave the Management Committee to apply the rules. The clubs voted to insert that clause into the rules at last year's AGM.

It’s just a waste of league Saturdays.

Get the trophy in the museum at Hampden where it belongs.

Please play in our diddy cup and we’ll give you a couple of balls

[glensmad]

35 minutes ago, Greenmachine said:

It’s just a waste of league Saturdays.

Get the trophy in the museum at Hampden where it belongs.

Please play in our diddy cup and we’ll give you a couple of balls

The clubs voted for it to be allocated into the fixture schedule. The Fixtures Secretary has to abide by the Constitution and Rules that the clubs voted on.

[Shanner]

Blaming the Junior Cup for the current congestion shit show is a complete Straw man argument. 

[jimbaxters]

6 minutes ago, Shanner said:

Blaming the Junior Cup for the current congestion shit show is a complete Straw man argument. 

Disagree pal. It's not solely to blame and is in fact some way down the list of reasons why but it's a definite contributory factor. Saturday fixtures for the SJFA and/or Strathclyde Cups should be avoided.

Edited March 28, 2023 by jimbaxters

[Bestsinceslicebread]

4 hours ago, glensmad said:

The SPFL are not a governing body with any say whatsoever in the affairs of the WoSFL. The Scottish FA approve the Constitution of the WoSFL and leave the Management Committee to apply the rules. The clubs voted to insert that clause into the rules at last year's AGM.

Regarding fixture problems, It shows you how stupid it is when people moan about it, no club in the WOSFL can moan about fixture problems, when Saturdays are taken up by the junior cup and these date, whether official holidays and other etc. can be used for league matches.  Even if your club is out early, teams in your division could still be in it and have a knock on effect.   

  Suppose it depends on how many rejoin or leave junior membership that will decide if the junior cup survives longer.  If you have the teams who have and gain their SFA license then they might not want to play in the junior cup as it may in their eyes complicates things with them being in the main SFA Cup and not just the WOSFL but other associations.  Teams that have lost a lot of money from the junior cup this year will definitely have to look into it if its worthwhile but also teams who have reached the latter stages might think its worthwhile.

 

It is a conundrum, the fixture delays for some teams and leagues but if the leagues were not finished at the designated date then could see problems from SFA wanting to know why and then realizing these were used up for a tournament outside their structure. I'm sure I read that it was the SFA that wanted all our leagues into 16 teams, is this correct?  Personally, even if there was 16 teams in a division and there was no junior cup, I still think we will have teams with more fixtures to played due to games being cancelled for different reasons, Scottish Weather lol,  snow, waterlogged, frozen pitches etc..   So definetly the Junior cup CANNOT be held accountable for fixture problems but could be an added reason

[jimbaxters]

2 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Regarding fixture problems, It shows you how stupid it is when people moan about it, no club in the WOSFL can moan about fixture problems, when Saturdays are taken up by the junior cup and these date, whether official holidays and other etc. can be used for league matches.  Even if your club is out early, teams in your division could still be in it and have a knock on effect.   

  Suppose it depends on how many rejoin or leave junior membership that will decide if the junior cup survives longer.  If you have the teams who have and gain their SFA license then they might not want to play in the junior cup as it may in their eyes complicates things with them being in the main SFA Cup and not just the WOSFL but other associations.  Teams that have lost a lot of money from the junior cup this year will definitely have to look into it if its worthwhile but also teams who have reached the latter stages might think its worthwhile.

 

It is a conundrum, the fixture delays for some teams and leagues but if the leagues were not finished at the designated date then could see problems from SFA wanting to know why and then realizing these were used up for a tournament outside their structure. I'm sure I read that it was the SFA that wanted all our leagues into 16 teams, is this correct?  Personally, even if there was 16 teams in a division and there was no junior cup, I still think we will have teams with more fixtures to played due to games being cancelled for different reasons, Scottish Weather lol,  snow, waterlogged, frozen pitches etc..   So definetly the Junior cup CANNOT be held accountable for fixture problems but could be an added reason

So three big long paragraphs to say "it could be a reason"?

Also, you keep saying about all these clubs who have lost money playing in the SJFA cup. Have the rules changed from the Junior days in regard to financial rewards? 

[Bestsinceslicebread]

17 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Pollok, Clydebank and Kilwinning, only know themselves what is best for them.  They have tasted the SFA Cup and realized the potential of money they can earn from doing well and might realize its worth their while not to enter the junior cup next year to concentrate on the SFA Cup and their leagues, only they can tell.  Whether your for the junior cup or not, it not compulsory only if holding a junior membership can you enter and the WOSFL and the EOSFL have allocated dates for the junior cup.  Also if teams were playing shadow sides in the South challenge cup and full teams in the junior cup I think and expect the junior cup not to last long as pressure would be put that the shadow teams would be in the junior cup

 

You talking abut Yoker, I know teams this year who have last a lot of money from travelling far, paying £800 for transport and only getting £240/£250 towards their travelling and they had to do it a few rounds, So Yoker made money last year but there were others who didn't and defiantly others who didn't this year, so the comment that its lucrative, is not for all teams and some are hurt badly.
In the main SFA Cup, Darvel made alone, from round 4 and Round 5 via tv money and exit money - £95,260 and that's without including gate money from preliminary, Round 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5.  Pollok made from exiting the Scottish cup via tv money and exit money, £15,250  and again that's without including gate monies from preliminary, Round 1, 2 and 3, (i am unsure if Pollok received TV  money for the Tv 1st round game being cancelled), so would have or is more money to their pot this year

I don't believe there will be a national Non-league tournament in the foreseeable future as far as I'm aware there is not enough appetite for it and in reality's, the South challenge cup is the Regional cup but as there is no Main Non-Scottish Cup, The South Challenge Cup is classed as the main tournament in the south with only 108 teams in the Scottish Junior cup and with 163 this year and the tournament is far superior and with harder teams involved.

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues

I think a smaller cups, (is there not one running at this moment), that maybe division 4 and or 3 enter is good as some leagues, if all their teams are out in the first couple of rounds couple play in a domestic cup nears end of season to keep their season going as, I'm sure last year, division 4 finished early?   I also like the cup where the 3 finalists form the SOSFL, WOSFL and the WOSFL can gain enter to the SFA Cup by winning the 3 way final

 

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues
5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early?

[jimbaxters]

Just now, Bestsinceslicebread said:

I think a smaller cups, (is there not one running at this moment), that maybe division 4 and or 3 enter is good as some leagues, if all their teams are out in the first couple of rounds couple play in a domestic cup nears end of season to keep their season going as, I'm sure last year, division 4 finished early?   I also like the cup where the 3 finalists form the SOSFL, WOSFL and the WOSFL can gain enter to the SFA Cup by winning the 3 way final

 

I do think however It would be great to have the following each season
1. a Full Non national Cup, (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not)
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues
5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early?

What does "Non National" mean please?

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

So three big long paragraphs to say "it could be a reason"?

Also, you keep saying about all these clubs who have lost money playing in the SJFA cup. Have the rules changed from the Junior days in regard to financial rewards? 

 Could be PART of the reason, already stated above that the Junior cup CANNOT be the reason for fixture problems but no one can moan about fixture problems when they voted for an EXTRA cup to be played, i.e. Junior cup

ffs stop going back to the old days.  . Also its different now, more expensive to run a club, clubs with development teams, clubs with academies, the price of electricity to run floodlights is different to what it was 4 years ago.  There's teams struggling now and harder to survive

Edited March 28, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 minute ago, jimbaxters said:

What does "Non National" mean please?

OMG,  is non league national cup, the whole chat is about non league trophy, a national trophy for non league teams throughout the country, so basically teams from tier 5 and below or some would say tier 6 and below, depends on your viewpoint

[jimbaxters]

2 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

ffs stop going back to the old days  its different now, more expensive to run a club, clubs with development teams, clubs with academies, the price of electricity to run floodlights is different to what it was 4 years ago.  There's teams struggling now and harder to survive

Why don't you leave it to the individual clubs to decide how their budget should be used?

[jimbaxters]

1 minute ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

OMG,  is non league national cup, the whole chat is about non league trophy, a national trophy for non league teams throughout the country, so basically teams from tier 5 and below or some would say tier 6 and below, depends on your viewpoint

Hahaha. Calm down. So you meant Non League. I get it now. 

Regardless, your wish list is daft. You're suggesting adding another cup to alleviate fixture issues.

[Bestsinceslicebread]

1 minute ago, jimbaxters said:

Why don't you leave it to the individual clubs to decide how their budget should be used?

PMSL  is there something wrong with you,  nothing to do with me unless I was involved with a team.  Doesn't matter how much crap you speak or I speak or anyone else speaks, clubs do what they think is best, so the club success and failures off and on the park are due to the committees

[jimbaxters]

4 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

PMSL  is there something wrong with you,  nothing to do with me unless I was involved with a team.  Doesn't matter how much crap you speak or I speak or anyone else speaks, clubs do what they think is best, so the club success and failures off and on the park are due to the committees

That would be the players/coaching staff, would it not?

[Bestsinceslicebread]

2 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Hahaha. Calm down. So you meant Non League. I get it now. 

Regardless, your wish list is daft. You're suggesting adding another cup to alleviate fixture issues.

Totally calm when it comes to you, your the one who ignores a post and takes smalls snippets out, or clearly you don't look at the whole picture.

I would have the following

1. I would love a Full Non national non league Cup, (tier 5 and below) (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not) but as stated before, I don't believe there's an apatite for it
2. South Challenge Cup - (to see whose the best in the south of Scotland)
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup, - (to see who is the best in their region)
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues - (another local cup for each association)
5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early? -  (this can be decided as it wouldn't effect fixture lists of teams whose season is finishing early
6. No Junior Cup 

Top 4 defiantly, 5 maybe

[Bestsinceslicebread]

6 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

That would be the players/coaching staff, would it not?

You clearly don't have a clue how football is run at clubs or i hope for your sake your at the windup. 
The committees decide on the manager, if they pick wisely then it was good investment, if they pick wrongly then it was a bad investment that can harm the club, i.e relegations, crowds dwindling, lost revenue etc..  So committees /chairmen have to make the right decisions for on and off the park

Edited March 28, 2023 by Bestsinceslicebread

[Stag Nation]

12 hours ago, glensmad said:

Incorrect.

WoSFL Constitution Rule B53 :-

"The Management Committee will make suitable and appropriate provision within their fixture schedule to accommodate the playing of the Scottish Junior Cup."

Q. Who decides what is "suitable" and "appropriate"?

A. The Management Committee.

Therefore pretty meaningless.

[jimbaxters]

7 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Totally calm when it comes to you, your the one who ignores a post and takes smalls snippets out, or clearly you don't look at the whole picture.

I would have the following

1. I would love a Full Non national non league Cup, (tier 5 and below) (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not) but as stated before, I don't believe there's an apatite for it
2. South Challenge Cup - (to see whose the best in the south of Scotland)
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup, - (to see who is the best in their region)
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues - (another local cup for each association)
5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early? -  (this can be decided as it wouldn't effect fixture lists of teams whose season is finishing early
6. No Junior Cup 

Top 4 defiantly, 5 maybe

I'm not ignoring anything. I try to discern the relevant points. You're adding another cup.

Using Talbot as an example. They play in;-

1. William Hill Scottish Cup
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WoSFL League Cup
4. SJFA Cup
5. 30 match league

You are suggesting that despite the fixture hell they currently have they should play

1. William Hill Scottish Cup
2. South Challenge Cup
3. WoSFL League Cup
4. SJFA Cup Another cup
5. 30 match league
6. A "full Non National Cup" (if they want)

That'll work 

 

Edited March 28, 2023 by jimbaxters

[bobbydazzler]

6 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said:

Totally calm when it comes to you, your the one who ignores a post and takes smalls snippets out, or clearly you don't look at the whole picture.

I would have the following

1. I would love a Full Non national non league Cup, (tier 5 and below) (teams participating in the main SFA Cup would have choice to play in Non National Cup or Not) but as stated before, I don't believe there's an apatite for it
2. South Challenge Cup - (to see whose the best in the south of Scotland)
3. WOSFL cup, EOSFL Cup and SOSFL Cup, - (to see who is the best in their region)
4. Another domestic Cup for each of the leagues - (another local cup for each association)
5. a cup for teams whose seasons finishing early? -  (this can be decided as it wouldn't effect fixture lists of teams whose season is finishing early
6. No Junior Cup 

Top 4 defiantly, 5 maybe

"a full non national non league cup" that you can decide to play in IF you want to or not. so what would happen if every team who played in the Scottish Cup said no to this?

[Shanner]

36 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Disagree pal. It's not solely to blame and is in fact some way down the list of reasons why but it's a definite contributory factor. Saturday fixtures for the SJFA and/or Strathclyde Cups should be avoided.

In so far as every cup date is a date when the league could have been played then it does contribute but there are still lots of midweek slots that could have been used and weren't.  

We all know that there's a constituency of folk that are grade obsessed and want rid of the SJC on that basis alone who's tactic appears to be assigning all of the world's ills to the competition when in reality there's plenty of space for all the competitions in the floodlight age if they're managed competently.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Shanner