LongTimeLurker Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 If it had been the language of instruction at school and it was being routinely used in the media it would be easy for us to write sair heid rather than sore head. Scotland was too busy with its junior imperial partner plundering role to do that sort of thing in the 19th century when literary languages like Bokmal and Nynorsk Norwegian were being standardised elsewhere and for whatever reason there is no enthusiasm in the present day for emulating what the Catalans did post-Franco. What to do with Scots is an awkward one for the SNP because a sizable portion of their activist base are panloaf speakers (for the sake of argument lets call them Torcuil and Catriona) who often still retain negative attitudes from an earlier era about Scots. There is a strand within Scottish nationalism that has latched onto Gaelic instead and try to push it as a national language rather than the reality of it being a local Highland/Hebridean one. Hence why Gaelic gets plastered all over Scottish government websites and Welcome to Scotland signs, etc in an empty token we're no #$%^in English sort of way. Then there are large portions of Scottish history that are being actively dumped from the collective memory. Edited highlights about Bruce/Wallace talked about obsessively minus the invasion of Ireland by Edward Bruce and the Balliols briefly returning post-Bannockburn, but Knox and the Reformation almost never mentioned even though it explains why Scotland retained an ongoing level of significant adminstrative autonomy post-Union. All kinds of emotionalism from Fergus Ewing about Culloden OK, but Jenny Geddes and the Covenanters never mentioned... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 If it had been the language of instruction at school and it was being routinely used in the media it would be easy for us to write sair heid rather than sore head. Scotland was too busy with its junior imperial partner plundering role to do that sort of thing in the 19th century when literary languages like Bokmal and Nynorsk Norwegian were being standardised elsewhere and for whatever reason there is no enthusiasm in the present day for emulating what the Catalans did post-Franco. What to do with Scots is an awkward one for the SNP because a sizable portion of their activist base are panloaf speakers (for the sake of argument lets call them Torcuil and Catriona) who often still retain negative attitudes from an earlier era about Scots. There is a strand within Scottish nationalism that has latched onto Gaelic instead and try to push it as a national language rather than the reality of it being a local Highland/Hebridean one. Hence why Gaelic gets plastered all over Scottish government websites and Welcome to Scotland signs, etc in an empty token we're no #$%^in English sort of way. Then there are large portions of Scottish history that are being actively dumped from the collective memory. Edited highlights about Bruce/Wallace talked about obsessively minus the invasion of Ireland by Edward Bruce and the Balliols briefly returning post-Bannockburn, but Knox and the Reformation almost never mentioned even though it explains why Scotland retained an ongoing level of significant adminstrative autonomy post-Union. All kinds of emotionalism from Fergus Ewing about Culloden OK, but Jenny Geddes and the Covenanters never mentioned...Wtf is this shite? [emoji23] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Calling me Xenophobic and English hating is just going to make me dig my heels in harder. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 11 hours ago, AUFC90 said: I'm loving how Scots isn't normalised and I've been living in an alternate universe my whole life. People who use Scots a lot can interchange between both, with ease, depending on the setting. It is a completely different language though. People from English speaking countries around the globe wouldn't have a clue what you're saying if you're speaking broad Scots between you and your pals. Bet you and your pals would understand them though. It's a weird one, I prefer speaking in Scots but would never write in Scots. That shit would give me a sore head Yep, there was a recent series on the BBC Scotland channel (or divisive nationalist Pravda channel as dispassionate neutrals LongTermLoyalist would have us believe) in which sociolinguists and other experts demonstrated the full extent of Scots influence in everyday life. Nearly everyone in the country is already bilingual to a significant degree and grades their word choice without even conscious thought: this is a remarkable skill that we should be celebrating and perhaps if we did that then more people would then be encouraged to take up a third language, whether a main European one, Gaelic or Arabic. Instead we suppress it under the label of 'slang' and wring our hands about being a region of monoglot thickos. The only real distinction between Scots and other small European languages is that there was never an influential movement to standardise its spelling in the 19th Century. Literary Slovak for example was created on the back of fag packet in the 1850s and barely a few thousand people out of two and a half million speakers could use it in any consistent form until it became a language of written instruction in Czechoslovakia after 1918: even today, the eastern Slovak written script and word choice is significantly different to the main form. If your national movement was developed in the context of 19th Century romanticism like the Slovak one then having a written literary language seemed crucial; if your nationalism rests on the legacy of the twentieth century like the Scottish case or countless post-colonial independence movements then it really is not, which is why our busted flush expert is floundering so badly here. Edited August 24, 2020 by vikingTON 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I'm loving the uberstaunch hot take btw in which a Reformation that saw the KIngdom of Scotland ditch its long-standing international guarantors of independence - thereby making possible its regular occupation, attempted complete absorption and finally pretend union of equals with the English state over the following 150 years - being passed off as a great national triumph because the Kirk got to preserve its weirdo Presbyterian theocracy over everyone after 1707. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AUFC90 Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 If it had been the language of instruction at school and it was being routinely used in the media it would be easy for us to write sair heid rather than sore head. Scotland was too busy with its junior imperial partner plundering role to do that sort of thing in the 19th century when literary languages like Bokmal and Nynorsk Norwegian were being standardised elsewhere and for whatever reason there is no enthusiasm in the present day for emulating what the Catalans did post-Franco. What to do with Scots is an awkward one for the SNP because a sizable portion of their activist base are panloaf speakers (for the sake of argument lets call them Torcuil and Catriona) who often still retain negative attitudes from an earlier era about Scots. There is a strand within Scottish nationalism that has latched onto Gaelic instead and try to push it as a national language rather than the reality of it being a local Highland/Hebridean one. Hence why Gaelic gets plastered all over Scottish government websites and Welcome to Scotland signs, etc in an empty token we're no #$%^in English sort of way. Then there are large portions of Scottish history that are being actively dumped from the collective memory. Edited highlights about Bruce/Wallace talked about obsessively minus the invasion of Ireland by Edward Bruce and the Balliols briefly returning post-Bannockburn, but Knox and the Reformation almost never mentioned even though it explains why Scotland retained an ongoing level of significant adminstrative autonomy post-Union. All kinds of emotionalism from Fergus Ewing about Culloden OK, but Jenny Geddes and the Covenanters never mentioned...Word salad is all that post deserves. Sent from my Moto G (4) using Pie and Bovril mobile app -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Paige-Black Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 The 'Abolish' sister party with the same self-loathing 'Only England can govern us' shite. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Paige-Black Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) Has anyone ever met anyone who seriously wants to abolish the Scottish Parliament? My family (apart from my sister) are all unionists, and every single one of them would be outraged at the suggestion. Edited August 24, 2020 by oneteaminglasgow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 19 minutes ago, Beth Paige-Black said: Is the not following England bit about COVID-19 regulations or national teams in sport? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcleanscontacts Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Has anyone ever met anyone who seriously wants to abolish the Scottish Parliament? My family (apart from my sister) are all unionists, and every single one of them would be outraged at the suggestion.I've met two or three who shout from the rooftop about getting rid etc but usually when you begin to dissect their responses they start foaming at the mouth.I think, anecdotally, at least that the very vast majority of Scots/people living in Scotland think it's a good thing, regardless of their political persuasion.The idea that Holyrood has done more damage than good doesn't really hold any weight when you look at what has been achieved. They've (regardless of party in power) made a monumental arse of some things - no more than their contemporaries down the road however - and worked some wonders in other areas.This anti-Scottish Parliament party will last about as long a Saints clean sheet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 This lot are a halfwit collection of cracks and nutters. They might better ask themselves why there is a need to spend £350m on a new HQ for whatever is replacing Public Health England. If only every last penny could be spent on the Armed Forces though eh? Arseholes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boo Khaki Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 17 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said: Has anyone ever met anyone who seriously wants to abolish the Scottish Parliament? My family (apart from my sister) are all unionists, and every single one of them would be outraged at the suggestion. Yes, and I've met a couple of yoons who are so craven and self-loathing they actually deny Scotland is a country, and would gladly see it annexed by England. I'm not the sort of Scot who romanticises the country at all, in fact I'm rather ambivalent about Scotland as a place, but I'll never understand Scots who are so in love with the notion of being part of the union that they venerate England and all things English, to the point whereby they're visibly embarrassed at their own identity and nationality, and openly wish to see Scotland diminished as if that would somehow lead to them becoming 'more English'. No surprise either that the particular individual I have in mind also claims that Scotland is an anti-English xenophobic backwater, that they've never once encountered anti-Scottish feeling in England, and that on the whole England is a much more tolerant and affable place. I genuinely wonder if we're talking about the same countries. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 10 minutes ago, scottmcleanscontacts said: I've met two or three who shout from the rooftop about getting rid etc but usually when you begin to dissect their responses they start foaming at the mouth. I think, anecdotally, at least that the very vast majority of Scots/people living in Scotland think it's a good thing, regardless of their political persuasion. The idea that Holyrood has done more damage than good doesn't really hold any weight when you look at what has been achieved. They've (regardless of party in power) made a monumental arse of some things - no more than their contemporaries down the road however - and worked some wonders in other areas. This anti-Scottish Parliament party will last about as long a Saints clean sheet. The problem the staunchest opponents of Scotland having any form of self government have is that they base their argument entirely on claiming the SNP are bad. The logic of that argument is that because the Tories are demonstrably a far worse, more incompetent, deeply corrupt, and foul party of government, the UK also does not deserve to be self governing. Pointing that out appears to make their heads explode, though, because hardcore UK nationalism is all about the UK, its government, and its institutions being infallible. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oneteaminglasgow Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, scottmcleanscontacts said: I've met two or three who shout from the rooftop about getting rid etc but usually when you begin to dissect their responses they start foaming at the mouth. I think, anecdotally, at least that the very vast majority of Scots/people living in Scotland think it's a good thing, regardless of their political persuasion. The idea that Holyrood has done more damage than good doesn't really hold any weight when you look at what has been achieved. They've (regardless of party in power) made a monumental arse of some things - no more than their contemporaries down the road however - and worked some wonders in other areas. This anti-Scottish Parliament party will last about as long a Saints clean sheet. Absolutely stunned at this revelation Anyway, it would seem (http://search.electoralcommission.org.uk/Registrations/PP6673) that this mob are just a rebrand of the “British Unionist Party” who managed a whole 0.1% of the national list vote in 2016 - around a quarter the amount of votes that the political heavyweights of RISE managed. Think Holyrood will be ok for now. Edited August 24, 2020 by oneteaminglasgow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 This mob aren't the only anti-devolution party. There's the Scottish Unionist Party who've been around since the late 80's. There's the British Unionist Party (formerly Better Britian - Unionist Party) formed in 2015 although from what I can gather are primarily oppossed to further devolution rather than scrapping it in full.Of course both of them are no marks in the grand scheme of things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 I’d say Schwiizerdutsch is too different from hochdeutsch to be considered a dialect. The grammar is borderline non existent which is probably the main reason I would say that. Then you have the countless Swiss German dialects in there own right, which vary wildly. I can understand a bit of Baslerdutsch and Zuridutsch but put me with someone who speaks Bernerdutsch or Walliserdutsch and I am lost. Even then, if I try to read something that has been written in any Swiss dialect I am stumped. I know a few Germans who will have a laugh about it and claim Swiss German is just a stupid dialect of the main language, but most of them only say that to hide the fact that they barely have a fucking clue what is being said around them.Hi Ross.Are you fluent in German or French? Or both, also would you be able to speak/understand the Swiss dialect? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beth Paige-Black Posted August 24, 2020 Author Share Posted August 24, 2020 1 hour ago, GNU_Linux said: This mob aren't the only anti-devolution party. There's the Scottish Unionist Party who've been around since the late 80's. There's the British Unionist Party (formerly Better Britian - Unionist Party) formed in 2015 although from what I can gather are primarily oppossed to further devolution rather than scrapping it in full. Of course both of them are no marks in the grand scheme of things. It's the same mob. Abolish are based in 270 Bath st, Glasgow the same registered address as 'Scotland in Union' and 'Better Together' etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottmcleanscontacts Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 Yes, and I've met a couple of yoons who are so craven and self-loathing they actually deny Scotland is a country, and would gladly see it annexed by England. I'm not the sort of Scot who romanticises the country at all, in fact I'm rather ambivalent about Scotland as a place, but I'll never understand Scots who are so in love with the notion of being part of the union that they venerate England and all things English, to the point whereby they're visibly embarrassed at their own identity and nationality, and openly wish to see Scotland diminished as if that would somehow lead to them becoming 'more English'. No surprise either that the particular individual I have in mind also claims that Scotland is an anti-English xenophobic backwater, that they've never once encountered anti-Scottish feeling in England, and that on the whole England is a much more tolerant and affable place. I genuinely wonder if we're talking about the same countries.There's wankers everywhere who'll hate anything that isn't 'theirs'. That doesn't exclude Scotland and by definition it's prevalent in England.The idea of romanticism in everything one does is ridiculous I agree, and particularly when in relation to the place where you were born, by nothing other than sheer chance.That's not to say that it shouldn't be a given that you have the right to be governed by people who live, work and play in the same land as you. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNU_Linux Posted August 24, 2020 Share Posted August 24, 2020 It's the same mob. Abolish are based in 270 Bath st, Glasgow the same registered address as 'Scotland in Union' and 'Better Together' etc. Staunch move replicating what their club of choice did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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