10menwent2mow Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about this at the best of times but the pitiful two minutes added in the Aberdeen v Rangers game yesterday has brought it to the forefront of my thinking once again. The calculation of additional time is an absolute disgrace. Even in games where one team is not trying to time waste, I'd say most of the time, it's not added on correctly. The games where one team is trying to shitfest, fans are being totally cheated. Fourth officials generally do absolutely nothing during a game other than supervise substitutions, why don't we make them the official timekeepers of the game? Player goes down injured, watch is stopped immediately until play restarts. Team make a sub, watch is stopped from refs signal that the sub is to be made, until match restarts (none of this arbitrary 30 seconds nonsense) I'd even advocate it stopping for corners and free kicks while centre half's come up and walls are organised. Goal is scored, watch is stopped until game restarts (again, no arbitrary 30 second nonsense). This would give you the minimum amount of stoppage time for those basic circumstances and the 4th official could then add on further additional time for other forms of time wasting like dallying at throws, goal kicks, free kicks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 the Aberdeen fans really taking this one hard eh. FWIW, there was a piece done on this studying the 2018 World Cup and published on Nate Silver's hellsite. https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/world-cup-stoppage-time-is-wildly-inaccurate/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) I've had a look at the IFAB rules regarding this, and here's what I found: Quote 3. Allowance for time lost Allowance is made by the referee in each half for all time lost in that half through: substitutions assessment and/or removal of injured players wasting time disciplinary sanctions medical stoppages permitted by competition rules e.g. ‘drinks’ breaks (which should not exceed one minute) and ‘cooling’ breaks (ninety seconds to three minutes) delays relating to VAR ‘checks’ and ‘reviews’ any other cause, including any significant delay to a restart (e.g. goal celebrations) The fourth official indicates the minimum additional time decided by the referee at the end of the final minute of each half. The additional time may be increased by the referee but not reduced. The referee must not compensate for a timekeeping error during the first half by changing the length of the second half. Most of this supports what you say in terms of adding time on, however it doesn't allow the referee to add time on in cases of corners and free kicks (unless there is an element of time wasting). If we apply this to yesterday's match which you highlighted, I think the only criticism that could be applied is that the referee didn't take into account the time Goldson was down at the end of the match. Although I would argue that is partially the fault of Cosgrove deciding to foul him in the first place and give him the opportunity to go down , but that's not really here nor there. As for the rest, there were only 3 substitutions in the half, 2 of which were made by Aberdeen and were almost instantaneous with no time lost at all given they were chasing the game. I agree referee timekeeping is somewhat suspect at times, but generally I don't think they get it badly wrong that often. Edited January 11, 2021 by AJF -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, AJF said: I've had a look at the IFAB rules regarding this, and here's what I found: Most of this supports what you say in terms of adding time on, however it doesn't allow the referee to add time on in cases of corners and free kicks (unless there is an element of time wasting). If we apply this to yesterday's match which you highlighted, I think the only criticism that could be applied is that the referee didn't take into account the time Goldson was down at the end of the match. Although I would argue that is partially the fault of Cosgrove deciding to foul him in the first place and give him the opportunity to go down , but that's not really here nor there. As for the rest, there were only 3 substitutions in the half, 2 of which were made by Aberdeen and were almost instantaneous with no time lost at all given they were chasing the game. I agree referee timekeeping is somewhat suspect at times, but generally I don't think they get it badly wrong that often. You've literally ignored goal celebrations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) 21 minutes ago, 10menwent2mow said: I've got a bit of a bee in my bonnet about this at the best of times but the pitiful two minutes added in the Aberdeen v Rangers game yesterday has brought it to the forefront of my thinking once again. The calculation of additional time is an absolute disgrace. Even in games where one team is not trying to time waste, I'd say most of the time, it's not added on correctly. The games where one team is trying to shitfest, fans are being totally cheated. Fourth officials generally do absolutely nothing during a game other than supervise substitutions, why don't we make them the official timekeepers of the game? Player goes down injured, watch is stopped immediately until play restarts. Team make a sub, watch is stopped from refs signal that the sub is to be made, until match restarts (none of this arbitrary 30 seconds nonsense) I'd even advocate it stopping for corners and free kicks while centre half's come up and walls are organised. Goal is scored, watch is stopped until game restarts (again, no arbitrary 30 second nonsense). This would give you the minimum amount of stoppage time for those basic circumstances and the 4th official could then add on further additional time for other forms of time wasting like dallying at throws, goal kicks, free kicks. These are reasonable but it's not a good look. Time to move on. ETA - However, @AJF blaming Cosgrove's nudge for Goldson time wasting Edited January 11, 2021 by Dons_1988 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Merkland Red said: You've literally ignored goal celebrations. There were two goals scored. Aberdeen certainly didn't celebrate their consolation, and would you say that the Rangers celebration resulted in a 'significant' delay to the restart as mentioned in the laws? I can't actually remember how long it took but it didn't strike me as being a significant delay in restarting the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: These are reasonable but it's not a good look. Time to move on. ETA - However, @AJF blaming Cosgrove's nudge for Goldson time wasting That's why I said it was neither here nor there as I don't think it should come into the ref's timekeeping, which I already said he got wrong the sentence before that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie_B Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 If you want to really resolve this issue forget playing 90 minutes, make it 30 minutes each way - but only count the time the ball is actually in play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, AJF said: There were two goals scored. Aberdeen certainly didn't celebrate their consolation, and would you say that the Rangers celebration resulted in a 'significant' delay to the restart as mentioned in the laws? I can't actually remember how long it took but it didn't strike me as being a significant delay in restarting the game. I'm very confident if you were to check it would be around the 1 minute mark for the game to kick off after the goal. 30 seconds for the Aberdeen goal. It's ok to say Rangers got away with one sometimes. No-one is going to kick you out of the lodge. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Just now, Jamie_Beatson said: If you want to really resolve this issue forget playing 90 minutes, make it 30 minutes each way - but only count the time the ball is actually in play. Isn't that a rule they've been considering? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Just now, Merkland Red said: I'm very confident if you were to check it would be around the 1 minute mark for the game to kick off after the goal. 30 seconds for the Aberdeen goal. It's ok to say Rangers got away with one sometimes. No-one is going to kick you out of the lodge. We got away with one aye, you were battering us right enough. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, AJF said: That's why I said it was neither here nor there as I don't think it should come into the ref's timekeeping, which I already said he got wrong the sentence before that. It's just interesting. Goldson is entitled to waste time, it's on the ref to compensate for it. You don't need to feel compelled to apportion blame elsewhere. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Just now, Dons_1988 said: It's just interesting. Goldson is entitled to waste time, it's on the ref to compensate for it. You don't need to feel compelled to apportion blame elsewhere. You are aware of which team he supports, aye? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dons_1988 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Merkland Red said: You are aware of which team he supports, aye? It's like suggesting to G51 that a first half red card might have changed the game a bit. Very sensitive to anything perceived to be suggesting Rangers aren't wonderful. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said: It's like suggesting to G51 that a first half red card might have changed the game a bit. Very sensitive to anything perceived to be suggesting Rangers aren't wonderful. I already stated the referee got the Goldson injury time wrong. Was my comment about Cosgrove fouling him needless and provocative? Aye, it probably was. However, the irony of Aberdeen fans calling me out on "apportioning the blame elsewhere" considering that's all you've (the collective you, of course) done since the 26th minute of yesterdays match is priceless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DukDukGoose Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 6 minutes ago, AJF said: I already stated the referee got the Goldson injury time wrong. Was my comment about Cosgrove fouling him needless and provocative? Aye, it probably was. However, the irony of Aberdeen fans calling me out on "apportioning the blame elsewhere" considering that's all you've (the collective you, of course) done since the 26th minute of yesterdays match is priceless. I don't think there is anyone who hasn't said Rangers deserved the win? The added time issue was actually raised by a Hibs fan. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 2 minutes ago, Merkland Red said: I don't think there is anyone who hasn't said Rangers deserved the win? The added time issue was actually raised by a Hibs fan. Nobody has said Rangers didn't deserve the win, but there has been plenty that have said it shouldn't have been a red card and have had a moan about the added time. And I never said the ref got it right about the Goldson injury time, so what's the difference? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10menwent2mow Posted January 11, 2021 Author Share Posted January 11, 2021 If you want to really resolve this issue forget playing 90 minutes, make it 30 minutes each way - but only count the time the ball is actually in play.I actually did think about putting that in the OP but I think that would be too extreme and would require a proper timekeeper as in elite rugby.This isn't just sour grapes, as I say, it's been pissing me off for a while. As the first reply points out based on the World Cup research, its wrong almost all the time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PauloPerth Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 I’ve always felt football could alleviate all these issues of managers etc complaining ‘ where did they get that extra time from?’ and accusations by a stadium clock linked to the refs/ timekeepers watch. It must be one of the few professional sports where folk watching haven’t a clue how long’s to go. It’s a bit shambolic when you think about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 3 hours ago, AJF said: We got away with one aye, you were battering us right enough. Finally 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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