Full back (right & left)

[Richey Edwards]

Potential Scotland Euros right-back Nick McAllister was red carded yesterday.

[2426255]

44 minutes ago, Richey Edwards said:

Potential Scotland Euros right-back Nick McAllister was red carded yesterday.

Not a problem, I believe James Tavernier has agreed to play for Scotland at Euro-2024

[GTG_03]

On 20/04/2024 at 08:17, RandomGuy. said:

I'm not sure Ramsay was ever actually good enough to ever get near Liverpools side. My memory was his performances for Aberdeen were good for a wing back, but he had issues with basic stuff, and that was all kind of ignored and everything hyped up because he was a young Scot playing well regularly.

Patterson always seemed the better prospect to me.

Both made poor moves that have stalled their careers and both players next move could be back where it started.

Hmm he definitely was tho. Was in a few squads and seemed to be the cover for taa. Played well in his limited time before he got injured and those injuries have hampered him since. 

I thought Ramsay had the higher ceiling as he was/is better than Patterson going forward aswell as defensively although both need to work on the defensive side. 

Didn't Ramsay have the best stats in Europe for a right back just before he left the dons ?

I hope they both get back on track and get consistent game time, would provide Hickey with real competition for that right back slot.

[RandomGuy.]

40 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

 

Didn't Ramsay have the best stats in Europe for a right back just before he left the dons ?

Do you really need to ask if that's true?

[Bing.McCrosby]

40 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Hmm he definitely was tho. Was in a few squads and seemed to be the cover for taa. Played well in his limited time before he got injured and those injuries have hampered him since. 

I thought Ramsay had the higher ceiling as he was/is better than Patterson going forward aswell as defensively although both need to work on the defensive side. 

Didn't Ramsay have the best stats in Europe for a right back just before he left the dons ?

I hope they both get back on track and get consistent game time, would provide Hickey with real competition for that right back slot.

Id agree tbh, I thought Ramsay looked a better player than Patterson also.

He had so much for such a young player including a lovey right foot. Excellent crosser.

Hopefully he can get himself fully fit and back on form although its looking like he would have been better staying at Aberdeen a while.

[GTG_03]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

Do you really need to ask if that's true?

Yes, I'm sure there was something about it. Maybe it was just assists ?

It was a couple of seasons ago tbf...

[2426255]

5 minutes ago, GTG_03 said:

Yes, I'm sure there was something about it. Maybe it was just assists ?

It was a couple of seasons ago tbf...

Assists.

https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/sport/football/aberdeen-fc/3867531/confirmed-aberdeens-calvin-ramsay-worlds-best-teenage-defender-with-assists/

[Jives Miguel]

Not even sure O'Donnell is even a top 3 Scottish right back playing domestically. Would be madness to select him. 

[Butters Scotch]

12 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

Not even sure O'Donnell is even a top 3 Scottish right back playing domestically. Would be madness to select him. 

No chance he will be selected, this would just be backwards move by Clarke. 

It will be Ralston then Johnston then most likely Ramsey or playing someone like Doig or Taylor at RWB.

Would mention Fraser at RWB but Clarke would want to avoid having bad eggs around the squad as much as possible and think he would prefer him in a more attacking role if he did select him. 

[craigkillie]

Fraser was in the last Euros squad and continued to be picked after that, so I think a lot of the "bad egg" stuff is overblown. He definitely seems to have attitude issues but I don't think they'd be to the extent that he'd be completely ruled out.

I would be astonished if Calvin Ramsay has even the tiniest chance of being involved, he can barely even get in matchday squads at English League 1 level. Likewise, I don't see any way he would possibly even consider Doig or Taylor as right wing-backs in this system, they have absolutely none of the requisite abilities to be able to play that role, both are basic one-footed left-backs. Taylor played a handful of times at right-back for Killie (not under Clarke) in his first season after breaking through, and maybe a couple of times in central midfield in Clarke's early games in charge, but has never played anywhere other than LB/LWB for club or country in the last 6 years. As far as I'm aware, Doig hasn't ever played any position other than LB/LWB in his career - I could possibly see a future for him in a Tierney-style centre-back role.

If we were using a makeshift RWB in an emergency situation I think it would be Ryan Jack or possibly even Stuart Armstrong.

I don't think we're anywhere near O'Donnell being in the squad though, his time has passed. If it's not Ralston it will be McCrorie, I can't see anyone else being in consideration at this stage. Johnston hasn't played nearly enough football to be thinking about.

[2426255]

14 hours ago, Butters Scotch said:

It will be Ralston then Johnston then most likely Ramsey or playing someone like Doig or Taylor at RWB.

Can't see that happening.

[Butters Scotch]

On 22/04/2024 at 14:29, craigkillie said:

Fraser was in the last Euros squad and continued to be picked after that, so I think a lot of the "bad egg" stuff is overblown. He definitely seems to have attitude issues but I don't think they'd be to the extent that he'd be completely ruled out.

I would be astonished if Calvin Ramsay has even the tiniest chance of being involved, he can barely even get in matchday squads at English League 1 level. Likewise, I don't see any way he would possibly even consider Doig or Taylor as right wing-backs in this system, they have absolutely none of the requisite abilities to be able to play that role, both are basic one-footed left-backs. Taylor played a handful of times at right-back for Killie (not under Clarke) in his first season after breaking through, and maybe a couple of times in central midfield in Clarke's early games in charge, but has never played anywhere other than LB/LWB for club or country in the last 6 years. As far as I'm aware, Doig hasn't ever played any position other than LB/LWB in his career - I could possibly see a future for him in a Tierney-style centre-back role.

If we were using a makeshift RWB in an emergency situation I think it would be Ryan Jack or possibly even Stuart Armstrong.

I don't think we're anywhere near O'Donnell being in the squad though, his time has passed. If it's not Ralston it will be McCrorie, I can't see anyone else being in consideration at this stage. Johnston hasn't played nearly enough football to be thinking about.

Nah he's a bad egg

[AndyDD]

With Tierney in the squad, you really only need Robertson and A N Other left back. Doig seems the sensible choice there ahead of Taylor, on the basis that he looks to be playing a decent number of games in Serie A and at 21 is more likely to feature in euro and world cup campaigns of the future so, if taking someone to be the spare, may as well go with the future. Taylor is probably who Clarke will opt for, though, I know. 

Right back is trickier, because whilst Hickey will have had 8 months or so of training, it will be a gradual build up of training and he won't have played in so long, meaning I think you want to bring 2 other options there to cover. Assuming for the moment Patterson doesn't make it back in time, McCrorie and Ralston the other two? 

I'm operating admittedly on the assumption that we go with 6 CBs, Tierney, 2 LBs, 3 RBs(including Hickey). Could drop a CB for a 3rd LB. Could drop a CM for 3rd LB, instead,  if you wanted to (I'm expecting we take 5 centre mids though, rather than 6).

 

[craigkillie]

I don't think we need 12 defenders in the squad for 5 places.

[AndyDD]

We had 11 defenders in the last squad, out of 25, for 2 games.

26 spaces to fill for the euros squad, and I doubt we're going top heavy with strikers. 

McGinn, McTominay, McGregor, Gilmour, McLean, Christie, Armstrong, Fraser or maybe Brown, Adams, Dykes, Shankland. 

I'm not sure who, if anyone, goes along on top of those names as additional midfielders or strikers, meaning the rest is going to be defenders and goalies. 

 

[Skyline Drifter]

1 hour ago, AndyDD said:

With Tierney in the squad, you really only need Robertson and A N Other left back.

If Hickey's fit you don't need "A N Other" left back. If Robertson is unavailable Hickey would switch wings and if he's unavailable Tierney would step out of central. No reason to take Taylor, Doig or anyone else. Of course that goalpost moves if Hickey doesn't make it or indeed if the squad size is moved to 26 as now appears likely.

We all know there's no world in which Clarke is picking Doig over Taylor right now.

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

I don't think we need 12 defenders in the squad for 5 places.

We don't, but that doesn't mean we won't take 12, particularly now it looks likely we're going to 26 players. You'll be more conscious of Clarke's loyalty than I but you see him as the sort of manager likely to pass over picking Cooper, Souttar and Taylor for a left field shout or two at this stage of Fraser, Gauld, Cairney etc?

[craigkillie]

7 hours ago, AndyDD said:

We had 11 defenders in the last squad, out of 25, for 2 games.

26 spaces to fill for the euros squad, and I doubt we're going top heavy with strikers. 

McGinn, McTominay, McGregor, Gilmour, McLean, Christie, Armstrong, Fraser or maybe Brown, Adams, Dykes, Shankland. 

I'm not sure who, if anyone, goes along on top of those names as additional midfielders or strikers, meaning the rest is going to be defenders and goalies. 

 

We also had 4 goalkeepers in the last squad, but we won't be taking 4 to Germany with us. I think that was about avoiding having to "drop" someone prematurely if there ended up being injuries anyway.

The last Euros squad only had 10 defenders in it out of 26 players, albeit McTominay also played centre-back at the tournament. There were 4 full-backs and 6 centre-backs (including Tierney). Even if you add an extra centre-back to account for McTominay, that's only taking you to 11.

Clarke is loyal to his core group of players, but there has always been a cut-off point for that loyalty, and players have eventually been dropped, including guys like Palmer being binned for the last tournament when he could obviously easily have been taken ahead of someone like Turnbull who was a new face to the squad.

[2426255]

16 hours ago, Skyline Drifter said:

If Hickey's fit you don't need "A N Other" left back. If Robertson is unavailable Hickey would switch wings and if he's unavailable Tierney would step out of central. No reason to take Taylor, Doig or anyone else. Of course that goalpost moves if Hickey doesn't make it or indeed if the squad size is moved to 26 as now appears likely.

As @AndyDD suggested, does right back? Hickey may have to cover left back, Hickey might not be 100%. Two reasons why it wouldn't be a great surprise to me if we took a utility player who can cover that area as well as elsewhere (McCrorie) or a younger player (Johnston) to show the pathway from the 21's.

Taking either player would serve multiple purposes. Both have been involved recently.

Edited April 24 by 2426255

[Skyline Drifter]

48 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Does right back? Hickey may have to cover left back, Hickey might not be 100%. It wouldn't be a great surprise to me if we took a utility player who can fill in there as well as elsewhere (McCrorie) or a younger player (Johnston) to show the pathway from the 21's .

Taking either player would serve multiple purposes. Both have been involved recently.

In a 23, with Hickey first choice right back and 2nd choice left back, plus Tierney already in as a centre back but 3rd choice left back I don't think you need an extra left back. You obviously have Patterson (if fit) as 2nd choice right back and you take another (presumably Ralston) to cover if Hickey has to go over to the left. If Patterson doesn't make it you take another (presumably McCrorie but Johnston is a more outside shout). If Hickey doesn't make it then it's a bigger pain because you lose the flexibility and maybe need Taylor too.

In a 26 of course I don't think it matters, we'll take Taylor anyway.

[2426255]

25 minutes ago, Skyline Drifter said:

In a 23, with Hickey first choice right back and 2nd choice left back, plus Tierney already in as a centre back but 3rd choice left back I don't think you need an extra left back. You obviously have Patterson (if fit) as 2nd choice right back and you take another (presumably Ralston) to cover if Hickey has to go over to the left. If Patterson doesn't make it you take another (presumably McCrorie but Johnston is a more outside shout). If Hickey doesn't make it then it's a bigger pain because you lose the flexibility and maybe need Taylor too.

In a 26 of course I don't think it matters, we'll take Taylor anyway.

I understand that, my point was more if Steve Clarke decides he would rather just do what he did at Euro-2020 and take 3 younger players along then Johnston would be one that is young, has been involved before and can cover an area where there is potential for a shortage. 

So it would just come down to that unanswerable question of how Clarke chooses to use the three additional spaces.