John Lambies Doos Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 My son was saying the other day him and 4 or 5 mates all voted Yes in 2014 when they were aged 18/19. Now they would all vote No, if asked again. What were their reasons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gallant Pioneer Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) On 06/03/2021 at 18:46, Gordon EF said: Federalism was always something I've been very open to, in principle. I think it's just always been something the British state would be deeply opposed to and so the (real) practical difficulties will always just be used as a deflection to never seriously consider it or anything close to it. For me the central problem unionism has is the 'Robertson paradox' thing. It is true that you can't hold off independence by just refusing to decentralise power at all. It'll just build up support for it. But on the other hand, the drip, drip effect of power transferring from London to Edinburgh will probably just lead people to think more and more, well why don't we keep going with this until it reaches the logical conclusion of independence. And that's where George Robertson got it dead wrong. The only real strategy to stave off independence is actually fixing a lot of the problems with the British state and how it's run. But everyone involved seems to have a pathological determination not to do that. Prior to the 2014 vote Salmond floated the possibility of a 3rd option forDevo Max/Federalism. The unionist parties rejected it out of hand as at the time the No vote was well in the lead. Although a staunch Yessir I would have accepted this as a middle ground provided the Scots Parliament had primacy and could decide what powers to be shared. Unfortunately the British state has no intention of handing Scotland real powers so any federal solution would just be another stop gap. In the end I believe demographic changes will deliver independence though it may still take a few years yet. Edited March 10, 2021 by Gallant Pioneer 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFTD Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 15 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 18 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said: My son was saying the other day him and 4 or 5 mates all voted Yes in 2014 when they were aged 18/19. Now they would all vote No, if asked again. What were their reasons? Late-onset Rangers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUMBER 7 Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 6 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said: 9 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said: My son was saying the other day him and 4 or 5 mates all voted Yes in 2014 when they were aged 18/19. Now they would all vote No, if asked again. What were their reasons? In 2014, they liked Salmond being to the front of the Independence campaign, and were young and more impressionable. They seem to have lost belief in the ability of an SNP administration to lead a country well. They also think this last year if we’d been independent we’d have been in a total mess, seem to think Scotland wouldn’t have been as well supported re furlough grants loans etc as it has been under Westminster ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said: In 2014, they liked Salmond being to the front of the Independence campaign, and were young and more impressionable. They seem to have lost belief in the ability of an SNP administration to lead a country well. They also think this last year if we’d been independent we’d have been in a total mess, seem to think Scotland wouldn’t have been as well supported re furlough grants loans etc as it has been under Westminster ? No offence to your wean, but it takes some amount of cognitive dissonance to think, “well I don’t like who we have running our (limited) affairs at the moment, so the obvious answer is to let these lads rule us as a dependent region”. It’s a bit like a sailor saying, “I really don’t like the thought of a week of drinking that bitter orange juice. I’ll just stick with the scurvy and gangrene, thanks.” 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted March 10, 2021 Author Share Posted March 10, 2021 34 minutes ago, NUMBER 7 said: In 2014, they liked Salmond being to the front of the Independence campaign, and were young and more impressionable. They seem to have lost belief in the ability of an SNP administration to lead a country well. They also think this last year if we’d been independent we’d have been in a total mess, seem to think Scotland wouldn’t have been as well supported re furlough grants loans etc as it has been under Westminster ? Got heavy "that's not what I'm hearing on the door step" vibes here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 In 2014, they liked Salmond being to the front of the Independence campaign, and were young and more impressionable. They seem to have lost belief in the ability of an SNP administration to lead a country well. They also think this last year if we’d been independent we’d have been in a total mess, seem to think Scotland wouldn’t have been as well supported re furlough grants loans etc as it has been under Westminster ?Strange how Ireland's furlough is doing just fine. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKMAN Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 They also think this last year if we’d been independent we’d have been in a total mess, seem to think Scotland wouldn’t have been as well supported re furlough grants loans etc as it has been under Westminster ?Someone should maybe tell them that Westminster don’t actually have any money for the covid bill, and that it’s all borrowed. Half of which, the tories just dish out to their mates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sophia Posted March 10, 2021 Share Posted March 10, 2021 With this lockdown and what not, it is a terrible time and most of my friends have decided that with all the worries that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth must have, the decent thing is to decide that we should wait and not put her to any unnecessary distress. I don't think we will be forever against a referendum but out of courtesy we should wait for a few more years. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
git-intae-thum Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 3 hours ago, NUMBER 7 said: My son was saying the other day him and 4 or 5 mates all voted Yes in 2014 when they were aged 18/19. Now they would all vote No, if asked again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 My son was saying the other day him and 4 or 5 mates all voted Yes in 2014 when they were aged 18/19. Now they would all vote No, if asked again. Seems that they are the exception 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picklish Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 5 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: I'll still vote Yes but I hate everyone in the Yes movement. mibbe if we put the wings and mumsnet mob on the south side of isle of Luing, and the Scottish reddit and twitter mob up the north end, and they can run full pelt at each other head first until they've knocked all the frothing, grandstanding, and intentional misunderstanding out of each other's heads, then we can get on with building a political elite that's as corrupt as the Irish, Danes, Norwegians etc, without all that yankee rimming, world power illusion having, clown monarchy worshipping, stale oxbridge jizz? Can't see the broad church holding together till another referendum, but maybe a couple more Yes parties might be a good thing, who knows? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 4 hours ago, sophia said: With this lockdown and what not, it is a terrible time and most of my friends have decided that with all the worries that Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth must have, the decent thing is to decide that we should wait and not put her to any unnecessary distress. I don't think we will be forever against a referendum but out of courtesy we should wait for a few more years. Well, her husband is in hospital, Sophia. Such a sensitive soul with a heart of gold who wouldn't dream of saying anything offensive, or out of place. A true model of diplomacy and tact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 8 hours ago, invergowrie arab said: I'll still vote Yes but I hate everyone in the Yes movement. Definitely need some new bloggers. The current lot have all gone feral. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 16 hours ago, GTG_03 said: We wouldn't be going anywhere though, and there won't be a border. I think indy will be good for both Scotland and England, it'll move on the topic of conversation at least. Without indy or at least an indyref soon then the debate will never move on. What debate? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SANTAN Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 10 hours ago, Antlion said: No offence to your wean, but it takes some amount of cognitive dissonance to think, “well I don’t like who we have running our (limited) affairs at the moment, so the obvious answer is to let these lads rule us as a dependent region”. It’s a bit like a sailor saying, “I really don’t like the thought of a week of drinking that bitter orange juice. I’ll just stick with the scurvy and gangrene, thanks.” Cognitive dissonance - What a shitpost, I'd expect nothing less, well done for avoiding mentioning shit or jazz, must have been hard for you. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 I don't have a vote because i don't live in Scotland. I didn't think independence (specifically the fiscal autonomy as proposed) would be have been a good idea in 2014. The idea of fiscal independence in a monetary union was just dumb, as shown by the Eurozone clusterfuck around that time. I don't believe that "Nations" should have any special status for deciding political boundaries, as a general principle. I thought that the costs of and uncertainty caused by the change would be significant. I wasn't convinced that any significant benefits would arise. Now i think that the benefits of not being associated with the Westminster freakshow swing the equation towards independence being good for Scotland in principle. But you'd have to ditch the pound or you'd still be dependent on Westminster policy. I don't support Scottish Independence though, in much the same way that Howard didn't support Gary Barlow going solo. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 On 06/03/2021 at 14:41, Highlandmagyar Tier 3 said: No to yes. Tories and Brexit. This for me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 11, 2021 Share Posted March 11, 2021 What debate? The ongoing one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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