Sarah Everard

[scottsdad]

6 minutes ago, Lex said:

Will appeal and will likely get a minimum term of 20+ years. Can’t see him ever getting passed a parole board and out though.
Double a whole of life tariff will stand up in an appeal court given he plead guilty and it’s a first conviction for violence.

If they let Colin Pitchfork out, they can let this guy out as well.

[Wee-Bey]

We should be looking at laws that ensure serving polis are sentenced to the maximum tariffs for crimes committed whilst hiding behind a badge and uniform.

[Left Back]

11 minutes ago, Lex said:

Will appeal and will likely get a minimum term of 20+ years. Can’t see him ever getting passed a parole board and out though.
Double a whole of life tariff will stand up in an appeal court given he plead guilty and it’s a first conviction for violence.

Starting point for murders involving sex is 30 years.  If he did successfully appeal his sentence I'd expect that to be the minimum.  He'd be knocking on 80 when eligible for parole and playing devils advocate here how many 80 year olds would be deemed at risk of kidnapping, raping and murdering young women?

Can't see him winning an appeal against his sentence though.  Being a serving police office and using that fact to facilitate his crime is surely enough of an aggravating factor to justify the whole life term.

[ICTChris]

33 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

I

I really wish I could remember what that documentary was. It was very interesting. 

(Un)Fortunate Son.

[Miguel Sanchez]

1 hour ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

the replies to this from guys with footballers as their PP is making me think maybe Godley had a point about football accounts tbh 

 

I don't get it. Men tweet about different things on the same day?

[ICTJohnboy]

25 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Starting point for murders involving sex is 30 years.  If he did successfully appeal his sentence I'd expect that to be the minimum.  He'd be knocking on 80 when eligible for parole and playing devils advocate here how many 80 year olds would be deemed at risk of kidnapping, raping and murdering young women?

Can't see him winning an appeal against his sentence though.  Being a serving police office and using that fact to facilitate his crime is surely enough of an aggravating factor to justify the whole life term.

 

Suspect his defence team will lodge an appeal - not that there's any chance of him winning, just that it would be a nice little earner for them.

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Just now, Miguel Sanchez said:

I don't get it. Men tweet about different things on the same day?

Yes, if only there was a thing everyone knows about Cristiano Ronaldo that might cause someone to pause before tweeting gushing praise of him the same day they're performing their upset about violence towards women 

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 minute ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

I don't get it. Men tweet about different things on the same day?

I assume it’s that he’s disgusted by violence towards women in one instance, but happy to deify a (alleged) rapist in the next. 

[Miguel Sanchez]

3 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

Yes, if only there was a thing everyone knows about Cristiano Ronaldo that might cause someone to pause before tweeting gushing praise of him the same day they're performing their upset about violence towards women 

 

2 minutes ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I assume it’s that he’s disgusted by violence towards women in one instance, but happy to deify a (alleged) rapist in the next. 

Not to come over all Chedwyn Evans on this but aside from Ronaldo not actually being a convicted rapist and murderer (although I was unaware that a woman this year is looking for 56 million from him), I'm not sure what people making non-points like this is supposed to achieve. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

3 minutes ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

 

Not to come over all Chedwyn Evans on this but aside from Ronaldo not actually being a convicted rapist and murderer (although I was unaware that a woman this year is looking for 56 million from him), I'm not sure what people making non-points like this is supposed to achieve. 

I think it's pretty straightforward tbh mate, the "non-point" is that it's a good illustration of the way many (most?) men behave around these issues, completely forgetting about it as soon as it's convenient to them, which as I initially pointed out is also reflected in the replies. And I'm not sure why posts on the internet have to achieve anything really, although I understand you take your gaming reviews very seriously

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

4 hours ago, oneteaminglasgow said:

I accept that, but I also think that the Police aren’t a normal employer and that, due to the position of power they are put in, they have an extra responsibility when it comes to ensuring everyone in their employ is fit to be there.

I absolutely agree with you. Also think the Met needs to address why nothing was done about those allegations of indecent exposure a few days before, thats a massive failing, the fact he was still able to carry firearms is a massive massive failing here. This to me indicates that what we need is a professional body to investigate not only police but allegations of corruption or abuse of power, IPCC in England is a shambles of an organisation with a clear anti-police agenda, but a properly functioning law enforcement body acting independent, which is empowered to investigate police and other public sector employees is very much needed, ie MP’s, Doctors, Teachers etc. Call it the National Safeguarding Agency or something. 

4 hours ago, throbber said:

Do you think if they confronted him he would have admitted he joined the police so he could one day use his position to murder women who were walking home alone at night? 

I dont think he joined with the mindset of eventually committing murder, but I do think he would have joined for the wrong reasons, all the offending we’ve heard about is about him having power over his victims, thats a massive fucking red flag and something that I know up here at least (although im sure there will be posters here who disagree) is flagged up big time when these attitudes emerge on the street. Tackleberry’s. Theres a difference between the ‘bullied at school’ stuff that football fans say and people who are sociopaths and thats a very very important distinction to make. The idea above about a safeguarding service in charge of vetting is for me the answer. 

3 hours ago, microdave said:

He probably thought he would get away with it as he was a police officer and therefore, untouchable. The c**t.

I think he did think he’d get away with it in the days before it, he genuinely did, im not sure why as everything he did is like the complete opposite of how to get away with it. I think he expected some kind of sexual gratification from it because of his actions before and during, but perhaps didnt get the release he thought he would. My big worry there is that he could have killed again quite quickly after it chasing that gratification. Every action he took though just defies logic, im not saying its logical to kill someone, but im saying, strip away the emotion from it, look at what he did, hire a car in his own name, abduct someone in plain sight despite knowing bus cctv would be reviewed, eye witnesses would see what happened, then the actions afterwards, disposing of her phone the way he did and a few other things that if he had a clue about telecoms (which im sure he must have) again defies logic. Then taking her to his own property? Its as if he didnt care if he got caught or his own psychopathic behaviour made him think he wouldnt get caught?  

1 hour ago, Namond Brice said:

We should be looking at laws that ensure serving polis are sentenced to the maximum tariffs for crimes committed whilst hiding behind a badge and uniform.

Yep absolutely agree, something like that needs to happen. Police should be held to a higher level of accountability.

[Miguel Sanchez]

24 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I think it's pretty straightforward tbh mate, the "non-point" is that it's a good illustration of the way many (most?) men behave around these issues, completely forgetting about it as soon as it's convenient to them, which as I initially pointed out is also reflected in the replies. And I'm not sure why posts on the internet have to achieve anything really, although I understand you take your gaming reviews very seriously

To be clear I meant posts like the tweet quoted, not yours. I had also forgotten Ronaldo had been accused of rape, which is either a comment on how little interest I have in European football or how little impact male violence against women actually has outside of the especially graphic cases.

Trying to decry people (I realise it's Piers Morgan who is a moron) as equally uninterested in society's treatment of women because of two cases as disparate as this one doesn't achieve anything because it's not making a point. It's basically the Yet You Participate in Society - I Am Very Intelligent comic as if every accusation of wrongdoing is comparable, regardless of the actual legal status of them, and the person (or "men" in this instance as he now represents them) is now completely worthless because they don't make being performative about women's rights/safety part of every thought they have. 

 

[MuckleMoo]

I know there's a couple of people on here that work in the prison service (WhiteRoseKillie?). I know the prison officers will act with professionalism but what is life going to be like for this guy inside? Is he looking at a lifetime in near isolation due to him being a walking target or are we just assuming this is the case?

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[ICTJohnboy]

15 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Yep absolutely agree, something like that needs to happen. Police should be held to a higher level of accountability.

 

ICR, isn't it the case in Scotland that officers have to act in pairs before they can make an arrest?

I

[Silvio Tattiescone]

4 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

ICR, isn't it the case in Scotland that officers have to act in pairs before they can make an arrest?

I

Isn't it two to charge someone?

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

16 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

ICR, isn't it the case in Scotland that officers have to act in pairs before they can make an arrest?

I

Ok, so its complicated, i dont really want to get into a big conversation about the nuances of scots law when we should be talking about Sarah Everard. Scots law requires corroboration, best practice is 2 police officers make an arrest. 1 officer can detain etc to prevent a crime already occurring and wait for back up before they search etc. In remote areas like Argyll and the islands etc police officers may have to use willing members of the public to assist, this might seem strange but works in rural areas. Some offences ie sec 36 road traffic act (going through a red light) can be prosecuted without corroboration. You can use powers like sec 23 misuse of drugs act detention based on one persons (civilian or police) observation, but the search must be corroborated in some way ie with two police officers or videoed. Its complicated, but yes, thats why police officers in Scotland are usually ‘doubled crewed’ and is a sensible option. 
Im hoping that the training which is rolled out in Scotland goes UK wide, its called ‘domestic abuse matters’ and although the title may give the implication it doesnt work in this discussion, it does, it helps identify issues around misogamy and identifying and addressing alarming behaviour and traits.  

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

1 hour ago, Miguel Sanchez said:

To be clear I meant posts like the tweet quoted, not yours. I had also forgotten Ronaldo had been accused of rape, which is either a comment on how little interest I have in European football or how little impact male violence against women actually has outside of the especially graphic cases.

Trying to decry people (I realise it's Piers Morgan who is a moron) as equally uninterested in society's treatment of women because of two cases as disparate as this one doesn't achieve anything because it's not making a point. It's basically the Yet You Participate in Society - I Am Very Intelligent comic as if every accusation of wrongdoing is comparable, regardless of the actual legal status of them, and the person (or "men" in this instance as he now represents them) is now completely worthless because they don't make being performative about women's rights/safety part of every thought they have. 

 

Don't wanna derail the thread any more so fair enough man but I'm still struggling to see how you can miss the point here, and comparing praising someone very credibly alleged to be a rapist hours with bemoaning violence against women mere hours earlier is nowhere near the meme you mention. It's getting to the stage where asking anyone to be consistent about anything brings up that meme. And whether we like it or not the attitudes of Morgan are extremely illustrative of at least a massive minority of men in the UK

Edited September 30, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[ICTChris]

Blog from David Allen Green about the whole life tariff.

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/09/why-the-whole-life-sentence-for-the-murderer-of-sarah-everard-is-correct/

[ICTJohnboy]

47 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Ok, so its complicated, i dont really want to get into a big conversation about the nuances of scots law when we should be talking about Sarah Everard. Scots law requires corroboration, best practice is 2 police officers make an arrest. 1 officer can detain etc to prevent a crime already occurring and wait for back up before they search etc. In remote areas like Argyll and the islands etc police officers may have to use willing members of the public to assist, this might seem strange but works in rural areas. Some offences ie sec 36 road traffic act (going through a red light) can be prosecuted without corroboration. You can use powers like sec 23 misuse of drugs act detention based on one persons (civilian or police) observation, but the search must be corroborated in some way ie with two police officers or videoed. Its complicated, but yes, thats why police officers in Scotland are usually ‘doubled crewed’ and is a sensible option. 
Im hoping that the training which is rolled out in Scotland goes UK wide, its called ‘domestic abuse matters’ and although the title may give the implication it doesnt work in this discussion, it does, it helps identify issues around misogamy and identifying and addressing alarming behaviour and traits.  

 

Cheers for that response.

You've kind of confirmed my thoughts that a horror event of this nature would have been less likely in Scotland.

[Bairnardo]

Blog from David Allen Green about the whole life tariff.

https://davidallengreen.com/2021/09/why-the-whole-life-sentence-for-the-murderer-of-sarah-everard-is-correct/

Find myself in agreement that if Police are afforded protection in the form of the greatest sentencing deterrent available, they should be subject to the same if they do something as hideous as this c**t using the fact that they are Police as part of their MO.

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