Sarah Everard

[hk blues]

21 hours ago, pub car king said:

Beyond the headline grabbing bits the report goes on to identify a lot of hardworking decent cops being let down by the few. It also highlights what years of austerity have done to the police service not just the met. Things like overloaded freezers breaking down and destroying evidence. A lot of police stations are from the 1960s and coming to the end of their life and won't be replaced. 

The police are also picking up so many other agencies workload like social care and mental health there's no wonder it's falling over. 

Don't get me wrong the met are a law unto themselves and almost every scandal or major change to policing has been brought about because of them. 

 

 

I don't think the major issue most have with the Police is so much their competence as the apparent culture of racism, misogyny, homophobia and so on that seems so prevalent. 

[ICTChris]

1 hour ago, hk blues said:

I don't think the major issue most have with the Police is so much their competence as the apparent culture of racism, misogyny, homophobia and so on that seems so prevalent. 

I think these things are linked - incompetent management leads to a culture of racism etc and that culture also probably leads to incompetence by pushing out more competent, conscientious people who aren't part of the ladsladslads WhatsApp banter lads.

[Self-raising Lazarus]

On 21/03/2023 at 12:34, craigkillie said:

I'm glad to hear that beyond the headline grabbing bit where the police is described as being instutionally corrupt, racist and generally bigoted in every possible way, there are also a few people who are none of those things but have also done precisely nothing to try to stamp it out.

Having been in a workplace that was utterly toxic with racism, homophobia and sexism all present, you were hard placed to challenge all the comments or behaviours when those above you weren't interested either. Not in the Met right enough

[craigkillie]

1 hour ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

Having been in a workplace that was utterly toxic with racism, homophobia and sexism all present, you were hard placed to challenge all the comments or behaviours when those above you weren't interested either. Not in the Met right enough

 

The public most likely wouldn't have cared about the culture in that workplace, but they absolutely would if it was in the police. A few well-placed leaks to a friendly journalist (there are plenty) may have brought this to the fore sooner.

[Arthur daley]

2 hours ago, Self-raising Lazarus said:

Having been in a workplace that was utterly toxic with racism, homophobia and sexism all present, you were hard placed to challenge all the comments or behaviours when those above you weren't interested either. Not in the Met right enough

^^ police Scotland

[Cosmic Joe]

5 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I think these things are linked - incompetent management leads to a culture of racism etc 

Such a culture isn't created by incompetence. Shite management doesn't cause individuals to become racist, misogynistic, homophobic scumbags. 

[ICTChris]

13 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Such a culture isn't created by incompetence. Shite management doesn't cause individuals to become racist, misogynistic, homophobic scumbags. 

That’s true - poor management can cause it to grow and become entrenched because it isn’t dealt with. 

[Cosmic Joe]

4 minutes ago, ICTChris said:

That’s true - poor management can cause it to grow and become entrenched because it isn’t dealt with. 

Agreed 

[Fullerene]

1 hour ago, Cosmic Joe said:

Such a culture isn't created by incompetence. Shite management doesn't cause individuals to become racist, misogynistic, homophobic scumbags. 

No but racist, misogynistic, homophobic scumbag managers will see nothing wrong with recruiting somebody just like themselves.

[TxRover]

12 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I remember listening to a podcast series about Detroit and that was a big issue in the 1960s in the lead up to the riots - the police department was 90% white and the city wasn't.  You had guys from suburbs going into the inner city to police it, it was like an occupying force.  Given the time and prevailing conditions of society, you can be sure that a significant number of those police officers had pretty set racist beliefs as well.

Now, Britain is not America and there are significant differences but I do think that it's probably a factor.  I agree with what you say about resolve being worn down and cynicism taking over - I know a few police officers and the view of life and the places they work is very different to mine.  I remember going through Inverness with a serving police officer and them pointing out where the drug dealers were, where they'd arrested people for sexual exploitation etc.  All in the town centre as well. 

I guess the way to deal with this is to have robust discipline and culture to stamp out corrupt, racist or violent officers and that makes sure a culture of cynicism doesn't take hold.  Easier said than done.

To a certain extent, consider Northern Ireland in the 70’s as similar to the U.S. inner cities in the 50’s-90’s.

[sophia]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

No but racist, misogynistic, homophobic scumbag managers will see nothing wrong with recruiting somebody just like themselves.

That is true and if you are a leader, it's your duty to be good and utterly reject all the bad stuff.

Take David Kennedy of The Scottish Police Federation who in representing his colleagues might think he's doing all that is good and to be fair to him he starts off very well just before 48 minutes into this broadcast but Martin Geissler lured him into a trap and at 54 minutes he was left all but devoid of credibility.

Worth a few minutes of your time before the link expires

If the link has expired, the gist of it was that PS are better than the met but he then goes and spoils it by defending those that are allowed, in the face of criminal allegations, to retire on full pension.

 

Edited March 22, 2023 by sophia
also catastrophically bald

[Cosmic Joe]

30 minutes ago, sophia said:

That is true and if you are a leader, it's your duty to be good and utterly reject all the bad stuff.

Take David Kennedy of The Scottish Police Federation who in representing his colleagues might think he's doing all that is good and to be fair to him he starts off very well just before 48 minutes into this broadcast but Martin Geissler lured him into a trap and at 54 minutes he was left all but devoid of credibility.

Worth a few minutes of your time before the link expires

If the link has expired, the gist of it was that PS are better than the met but he then goes and spoils it by defending those that are allowed, in the face of criminal allegations, to retire on full pension.

 

They can't seem to help themselves. Immediately going into self-defence as soon as there is any suggestion of a discriminatory culture that needs to be challenged. 

Hiding behind lack of funding in an attempt to excuse institutional racism, sexism and homophobia is pathetic. We all suffer from lack of funding these days. 

Edited March 22, 2023 by Cosmic Joe

[hk blues]

18 hours ago, ICTChris said:

I think these things are linked - incompetent management leads to a culture of racism etc and that culture also probably leads to incompetence by pushing out more competent, conscientious people who aren't part of the ladsladslads WhatsApp banter lads.

I don't think management incompetence was suggested, rather structural incompetence due to under-funding.  

[Guest]

We're incompetent racist misogynistic bigots because we don't get enough funding is a strange stance to take.

[hk blues]

26 minutes ago, Empty It said:

We're incompetent racist misogynistic bigots because we don't get enough funding is a strange stance to take.

Just to clarify - I agree and that was the point I was making in the post above. 

[Florentine_Pogen]

10 hours ago, Empty It said:

We're incompetent racist misogynistic bigots because we don't get enough funding is a strange stance to take.

Sevco and Sellik fans have exactly the same mindset with regard to competing in Europe.

[Guest]

Another one has been charged with rape whilst on duty, genuinely what is wrong with this bunch?

[Benjamin_Nevis]

3 hours ago, Empty It said:

Another one has been charged with rape whilst on duty, genuinely what is wrong with this bunch?

"Bad apples" 

[TxRover]

5 hours ago, Empty It said:

Another one has been charged with rape whilst on duty, genuinely what is wrong with this bunch?

A job that entails exercising control over others, what could possibly go wrong in recruitment? For much too long police departments have recruited the wrong types, the ex-MP’s, the bullies and the borderline psychos. It’s a conundrum that the police have not yet solved, how to get and keep capable and trustworthy recruits when the current workforce derides them as weak, ineffective and troublemakers.

The thin blue line is a fact, and the comments about the police being the biggest gang on the streets are very true.

[ICTChris]

I don't know if this is the right thread but there is an ongoing review into the case of Daniel Bendall, who murdered three children and his partner with a hammer in Derbyshire in 2021.  He also raped his partners daughter before murdering her.  An inquest has been ordered after an initial review of the probation services management of Bendell reported huge failings.

The report is here, it's just unbelievable

https://www.justiceinspectorates.gov.uk/hmiprobation/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/2023/01/Independent-serious-further-offence-review-of-Damien-Bendall-1.pdf

He was flagged as a potential child sex offender but this wasn't followed up on and he was allowed to move into a home with several young children.  He missed appointments, admitted drinking alcohol and taking drugs but wasn't recalled to prison.  They didn't follow up on any reports of domestic abuse against Bendell and took what he said at face value.

Edited April 18, 2023 by ICTChris