Sarah Everard

[Cheese]

I would imagine that Cressida Dick has seen all the files and knows all the secrets, which is why she is unsackable.

The noises coming from plod are ominous imo. The signs are it's very much going to continue to be a 'us versus them', blue lives matter/thin blue line attitude.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I think the "defund the police" thing in the states was also about the ridiculous amounts of money thrown at them partly due to having immensely powerful Police unions there. Some forces are better equipped than their military.

As for the Police here, frankly less and less people are interested in hearing "good cops" feed us the "bad apple" pish. If good cops are unwilling to put their heads above the parapet to call out shit behaviour and corruption then they are every bit a part of the problem. If the Police can't be reformed from within, then politicians are going to have to have the baws to properly reform them from the outside and find a way to make them truly accountable.


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[plodofthenorth]

9 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Police officers moaning about ACAB is indistinguishable from the #notallmen shit sort your house out you entitled babies and let's see some justice for the scores of people brutalised by the police over their entire history. Even in this country there still hasn't been any justice given to Sheku Bayoh's family.

If that was aimed at me, then I can  honestly say that I've never been part of anyone being "brutalised". As for Sheku Bayou, I believe there is an FAI ongoing, and as I wasn't there, then I will refrain fro commenting further.

[invergowrie arab]

6 minutes ago, plodofthenorth said:

If that was aimed at me, then I can  honestly say that I've never been part of anyone being "brutalised". As for Sheku Bayou, I believe there is an FAI ongoing, and as I wasn't there, then I will refrain fro commenting further.

That's not quite right. The PF said a FAI would not be sufficient as that only looks at events leading up to the death.

The inquiry will look at 

• the immediate circumstances leading to the death of Mr Bayoh
• how the police dealt with the aftermath
• the subsequent investigation into the death
• whether race was a factor

[plodofthenorth]

5 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I think the "defund the police" thing in the states was also about the ridiculous amounts of money thrown at them partly due to having immensely powerful Police unions there. Some forces are better equipped than their military.

As for the Police here, frankly less and less people are interested in hearing "good cops" feed us the "bad apple" pish. If good cops are unwilling to put their heads above the parapet to call out shit behaviour and corruption then they are every bit a part of the problem. If the Police can't be reformed from within, then politicians are going to have to have the baws to properly reform them from the outside and find a way to make them truly accountable.


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I wasn't trying to go good cops v bad cops, I was only giving my opinion. I have called out bad behaviour, and it has been dealt with accordingly. Corruption is an another matter and is dealt with by a unit which is incredibly unpopular with other officers. In  fact it was so unpopular that the Sunday mail (apologies) ran a story criticising it for doing the very thing it was set up to do. I am genuinely interested to hear your views on how you would like reform to be carried out. I think that it is the right time for open and honest conversations to be had about how the public would like to be policed.

[plodofthenorth]

3 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

That's not quite right. The PF said a FAI would not be sufficient as that only looks at events leading up to the death.

The inquiry will look at 

• the immediate circumstances leading to the death of Mr Bayoh
• how the police dealt with the aftermath
• the subsequent investigation into the death
• whether race was a factor

The PF is in charge of any investigation into any allegation of police criminality. I have no issue with that, although as in the above case, it does seem to take an incredibly long time, which does nobody any favours.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

I wasn't trying to go good cops v bad cops, I was only giving my opinion. I have called out bad behaviour, and it has been dealt with accordingly. Corruption is an another matter and is dealt with by a unit which is incredibly unpopular with other officers. In  fact it was so unpopular that the Sunday mail (apologies) ran a story criticising it for doing the very thing it was set up to do. I am genuinely interested to hear your views on how you would like reform to be carried out. I think that it is the right time for open and honest conversations to be had about how the public would like to be policed.

I cannot begin to imagine why an anti-corruption unit would be hugely unpopular with other officers. You'd think a unit specifically set up to weed out the types of cops who give the rest of you a bad name would be welcomed by non-bent cops.

*Chin-stroke*

Sarcasm aside, I obviously do not know how the Police should be reformed. However the pathetic culture where anyone sticking their neck out to call out corruption is often ostracised or worse and the numerous examples in this and the other thread are highly indicative that something needs to be done. Public trust of the police must be nearing an all time low, and given the nonsense we've seen from the Met and that dickhead in Yorkshire today alone, it's little wonder.

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[plodofthenorth]

34 minutes ago, invergowrie arab said:

I belive most cops are decent people doing their best. I also belive most cops have witnessed corruption, bullying and fabrication of evidence and done nothing about it. I'm not judging- I would shit myself to put my head above the parapet in an institutionally corrupt organisation too.

This was what the whole American defund the police thing was about. Not that you don't have police and have anarchy but that the current model is incorrigible. 

What model would you like to see? I am genuinely interested in how you would like things to be. I would like to clarify that I made bad use of the parapet phrase, I only meant that in terms of this forum. There are many mechanisms in place for me to call out poor behaviour in the workplace.

[Abdul_Latif]

36 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

Even in this country there still hasn't been any justice given to Sheku Bayoh's family.

An absolute disgrace, dismissed by the “Scotland isn’t racist” idiots.

Edited October 1, 2021 by Abdul_Latif

[plodofthenorth]

4 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I cannot begin to imagine why an anti-corruption unit would be hugely unpopular with other officers. You'd think a unit specifically set up to weed out the types of cops who give the rest of you a bad name would be welcomed by non-bent cops.

*Chin-stroke*

Sarcasm aside, I obviously do not know how the Police should be reformed. However the pathetic culture where anyone sticking their neck out to call out corruption is often ostracised or worse and the numerous examples in this and the other thread are highly indicative that something needs to be done. Public trust of the police must be nearing an all time low, and given the nonsense we've seen from the Met and that dickhead in Yorkshire today alone, it's little wonder.

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I have never seen anyone "ostracised" for doing this for a genuine issue. I would also agree with you over ridiculous comments from some of our senior management. However, you seem to be be happy throwing criticism without giving any suggestions for how to improve matters.

 

[Abdul_Latif]

In what is a very sad, though relatively insignificant result of this saga my wife has stopped going out running alone after dark in what is a pretty low crime / affluent area of Dundee. In truth I’m a little relieved, but it’s a disgrace it’s come to this or has ever been this. 

We have to do better at the very grass root level calling out all the misogynistic bullshit.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Btw what we really need is to help men of any age or job recognise signs of red flags in both their own and others behaviour, how to change that behaviour or report it and how to respect women. 

[plodofthenorth]

18 minutes ago, Abdul_Latif said:

In what is a very sad, though relatively insignificant result of this saga my wife has stopped going out running alone after dark in what is a pretty low crime / affluent area of Dundee. In truth I’m a little relieved, but it’s a disgrace it’s come to this or has ever been this. 

We have to do better at the very grass root level calling out all the misogynistic 

Sadly, I would agree with all of this and I don't think it's insignificant. A big chunk is up to the police to try and fix this and to make people feel safe again. I would admit it is a failing on our part and that something has to change to address it.

[candalan]

Most of the problem lies with the fact that in England, 1 cop can make an arrest, up here it is 2, odds of both being predators is hopefully slimmer.

[Abdul_Latif]

29 minutes ago, plodofthenorth said:

Sadly, I would agree with all of this and I don't think it's insignificant. A big chunk is up to the police to try and fix this and to make people feel safe again. I would admit it is a failing on our part and that something has to change to address it.

One of our best pals is a police officer, and we do not doubt he and you do your absolute best to uphold values we expect, but it’s the fear of those that don’t that overwhelms. 
 

Tragic, though it is, I hope this is the turning point.

[oneteaminglasgow]

1 hour ago, plodofthenorth said:

I have never seen anyone "ostracised" for doing this for a genuine issue. I would also agree with you over ridiculous comments from some of our senior management. However, you seem to be be happy throwing criticism without giving any suggestions for how to improve matters.

 

 

2 hours ago, plodofthenorth said:

I wasn't trying to go good cops v bad cops, I was only giving my opinion. I have called out bad behaviour, and it has been dealt with accordingly. Corruption is an another matter and is dealt with by a unit which is incredibly unpopular with other officers. In  fact it was so unpopular that the Sunday mail (apologies) ran a story criticising it for doing the very thing it was set up to do. I am genuinely interested to hear your views on how you would like reform to be carried out. I think that it is the right time for open and honest conversations to be had about how the public would like to be policed.

These two bolded bits seem to be at odds with each other. I’m also not convinced that we need to have a detailed plan for police reform in order to criticise current police practice. 

[NotThePars]

4 hours ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Btw what we really need is to help men of any age or job recognise signs of red flags in both their own and others behaviour, how to change that behaviour or report it and how to respect women. 

Well sure but given the kidnap was able to happen so brazenly was because the person was a police officer. So reform needs to be made specifically there. It remains to be seen if that will happen and the disgraceful comments from several figures doesn't bode well, does it?

[Shotgun]

5 hours ago, plodofthenorth said:

However, you seem to be be happy throwing criticism without giving any suggestions for how to improve matters.

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.

Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.

And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

[pawpar]

11 hours ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said:

Those comments from the Yorkshire commissioner say it all. The police aren't upset about the kidnap, rape and murder of a defenceless women. They are upset because it is one of their own has been sent down.

If Johnson has the slightest backbone, he should have made Priti Patel sack Cressida Dick on the spot yesterday and then promptly sacked Patel himself.

Considering Boris Johnson has had sexual allegations against him there is not much chance against that happening.

And this

https://time.com/5689788/boris-johnson-charlotte-edwardes-jennifer-arcuri/

Still England and Cuddly Boris are great unlike in Scotland where there are more stricter measures against sexual offenders. 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by pawpar

[Benjamin_Nevis]

And there folks, is the problem in a nutshell. Here's one of the proverbial "good cops" telling us that it's not up to the police to come up with a solution for the racism, homophobia, misogyny, corruption and criminality endemic within law enforcement. That's our responsibility.
Nothing to see here, Couzens wasn't a real police officer, Everard shouldn't have been out, women need to handle these situation betters, the police do a fine job.
And don't criticise us unless you have a solution for the problem neither the government or the police top brass are willing to admit exists.

Perhaps the Police would like us all to change our Facebook profile pics to thin blue line badges. That'll sort it.

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