Celtic and Hearts B Teams in Lowland League?

[craigkillie]

It wouldn't be for a season though. If it's all about getting them on board to vote through the changes to the promotion and relegation, then they're hardly going to say "OK, well now you've got your play-off, that'll be us away now."

[Burnieman]

6 minutes ago, Dev said:

If the LL doing deals with the OF unblocks the Pyramid i.e. two up and two down between the SPFL2 and the LL and two down from the LL with two promotion spots from Tier 6 would it be worthwhile putting up with two OF B teams for a season? No one believes it would be for just one season but that may be the deal to get past opposition from some lower SPFL clubs.

Would it be worth it? The lack of promotion has been flagged up by Gordon Fraser very recently so he is seemingly willing to stick his neck out in the hope of getting the log-jam broken permanently.

Puts a very different light on the whole thing. He's trying to find a way to make things happen, knowing the reaction which he will get. Takes lots of guts to stand up like that.

Explain to me exactly how having Rangers and Celtic Colt teams in the Lowland League for a season will lead to League 2 clubs voting for 2 relegation places?

There is no mention at all of extra promotion places between tier 6 and the LL, that doesn't need OF Colt involvement for that decision to be made.

 

[Burnieman]

5 minutes ago, Ironside8 said:

Absolute shambles and now totally discredited so called pyramid system that is now on life support before its even got started.

People were warned it wouldn't work and any attempts would be futile and meet stern resistance and that's exactly what's happened.

A once proud grade of football that offered a true alternative to the toxic senior game dismantled all for nothing. Clubs lead up the garden path, sold a busted flush of a dream.

Scandalous but not unsurprising especially when lead by a clueless official at a joke of a boys club team.

Hi Gaswork.

[craigkillie]

10 minutes ago, G51 said:

Are you saying that Ross Wilson and Craig Mulholland are lying about having put together a proposal for player development that the PGB and SPFL boards passed, but the SFA board haven't touched?

That seems extremely unlikely. I would imagine if that was the case then the SFA would already have released a statement saying as much.

I'm interested to see what is in the proposal. It's impossible to judge it without knowing what's in it.

I don't know loads about Wilson, but Mulholland comes across as one of the slimiest snake-oil salesmen in Scottish football, perhaps just short of Dave Cormack. His arguments for the colts teams are usually based around half-truths and enormous logical leaps and he has a ludicrously inflated opinion of himself and Rangers' youth system.

I can absolutely believe that they've put together a proposal which the SPFL and PGB have agreed with, and that the SFA haven't done anything with it. However, my question would be why the SFA actually need to do anything with it, given that the SPFL have already implemented the necessary changes in terms of loans etc. What action is it that the SFA are supposed to have taken which they haven't.

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

What action is it that the SFA are supposed to have taken which they haven't.

Only reason i can think of is that no club wants to align themselves so closely with Rangers. 

[Burnieman]

Just now, Ironside8 said:

Old firm colts paying way in making mockery of everything.
Boys clubs and college teams galore.
Horrifically small amount of relegation and promotion.
Like teeth being pulled just to try get a playoff game played.
Dwindling prize money and full membership opportunities.
Most clubs in lower end being forced in against will.
Bugger all national non league cup that could even come close to the junior cup.
Administrators all over the place trying to make decisions.

Horrific and things will only get worse for those who have been sold this, I truly feel sorry for the lot of you.

[eez-eh]

49 minutes ago, Gordon EF said:

The OF are a cancer. Not satisfied with ruining the Premier League as a competition, they're now trying to infect the lower leagues. Just f**k off.

It’s absolutely despicable behaviour. Told to f**k off by the SPFL clubs so they’ll just keep going lower until they find some clubs desperate enough to take them.

[G51]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

I don't know loads about Wilson, but Mulholland comes across as one of the slimiest snake-oil salesmen in Scottish football, perhaps just short of Dave Cormack. His arguments for the colts teams are usually based around half-truths and enormous logical leaps and he has a ludicrously inflated opinion of himself and Rangers' youth system.

I can absolutely believe that they've put together a proposal which the SPFL and PGB have agreed with, and that the SFA haven't done anything with it. However, my question would be why the SFA actually need to do anything with it, given that the SPFL have already implemented the necessary changes in terms of loans etc. What action is it that the SFA are supposed to have taken which they haven't.

I don't know anything about either of them personally. But Wilson has a good story and his career began in the Scottish lower leagues. He's a pretty impressive guy to listen to and his track record speaks for itself. In terms of Mulholland, he's completely transformed the Rangers academy from where it was under Jimmy Sinclair.

I don't know why they want the SFA to look at and pass the proposal, because I've no idea what is in it. None of us do, until it inevitably leaks. How can anyone say that the existing rules can accommodate this proposal when we don't know what the proposal is?

The more obvious question, to me at least, is why are the SFA frustrating the process? Is it simply incompetence as usual, or is there something in it that they don't like? If they don't feel they need to do anything about it, surely they would have told Rangers that?

There's going to be a lot of spin, from both sides, over this. Scottish football excels in bullshitting at the top level. Rangers, Celtic, the SPFL, the SFA - they're all the same.  But for now at least, it's the SFA that have the questions to answer. And I would imagine that those who are deathly opposed to Colt teams will be most keen to see them answered, because it might be the best chance of avoiding Colt teams in the Lowland League.

[Gordon EF]

32 minutes ago, Dev said:

If the LL doing deals with the OF unblocks the Pyramid i.e. two up and two down between the SPFL2 and the LL and two down from the LL with two promotion spots from Tier 6 would it be worthwhile putting up with two OF B teams for a season? No one believes it would be for just one season but that may be the deal to get past opposition from some lower SPFL clubs.

Why on Earth would L1 and 2 clubs vote for 2 up and 2 down because the colts are in the LL? They're far more likely to block any increased promotion and relegation with the colts in there. There is absolutely nothing in this for League 2 clubs and the proposition of the LL is actively worse if colt teams are there.

[Burnieman]

5 minutes ago, G51 said:

I don't know anything about either of them personally. But Wilson has a good story and his career began in the Scottish lower leagues. He's a pretty impressive guy to listen to and his track record speaks for itself. In terms of Mulholland, he's completely transformed the Rangers academy from where it was under Jimmy Sinclair.

I don't know why they want the SFA to look at and pass the proposal, because I've no idea what is in it. None of us do, until it inevitably leaks. How can anyone say that the existing rules can accommodate this proposal when we don't know what the proposal is?

The more obvious question, to me at least, is why are the SFA frustrating the process? Is it simply incompetence as usual, or is there something in it that they don't like? If they don't feel they need to do anything about it, surely they would have told Rangers that?

There's going to be a lot of spin, from both sides, over this. Scottish football excels in bullshitting at the top level. Rangers, Celtic, the SPFL, the SFA - they're all the same.  But for now at least, it's the SFA that have the questions to answer. And I would imagine that those who are deathly opposed to Colt teams will be most keen to see them answered, because it might be the best chance of avoiding Colt teams in the Lowland League.

Why don't they just send an email to all SPFL clubs with their proposal?

[parsforlife]

I haven’t listened to the recent round of bullshit coming from rangers,   But in the past they have claimed their B team proposals for the spfl were close to happening and due to be passed on a vote when all they’ve done is arranged a meeting sign other clubs to discuss, and then ended up laughed out the room.

So yes there’s a good chance they are lying again.  

[G51]

1 minute ago, Burnieman said:

Why don't they just send an email to all SPFL clubs with their proposal?

They met with all but three of the SPFL clubs. Plus, the SPFL has apparently passed the proposal.

 

[Burnieman]

2 minutes ago, G51 said:

They met with all but three of the SPFL clubs. Plus, the SPFL has apparently passed the proposal.

So the finalised proposal has been circulated to all SPFL clubs?

[G51]

Just now, Burnieman said:

So the finalised proposal has been circulated to all SPFL clubs?

I should correct that - I think what was said is that it had been passed by the SPFL board.

Which is why I think it's inevitable that this is going to leak.

[Burnieman]

Just now, G51 said:

I should correct that - I think what was said is that it had been passed by the SPFL board.

Which is why I think it's inevitable that this is going to leak.

So my point is, if they are frustrated at the lack of response by the SFA then why not just circulate to all SPFL clubs. Get their proposals into the public domain and let's see their plan to save Scottish fitba.

[G51]

Just now, Burnieman said:

So my point is, if they are frustrated at the lack of response by the SFA then why not just circulate to all SPFL clubs. Get their proposals into the public domain and let's see their plan to save Scottish fitba.

I agree. I think that is what's going to happen.

[San Starko Rover]

“It’s only for one year” said the magic bean salesman. I’m a huge backer of the pyramid and opening up every trapdoor to allow maximum promotion and relegation but I’ve zero backing for the Non-League clubs if the Lowland League back anything to do with the Old Firm Colts. I appreciate some Non-League fans have a “big team” from these two but surely those who do value their Non-League club see this as a terrible idea. If the LL has capacity to play two extra teams then expand the league to include extra SOS/WOS/EOS.

[It's Me]

23 hours ago, craigiemack said:

Wow what words can you even say about this shite

I appreciate everything he has done as chairman for the league but George Fraser is an absolute sell out if this gets through.

He has a cheek to say that league 2 is a closed shop when he would happily allow Colts teams to get into the LL over progressive clubs in the East and West

Is that all these progressive clubs that went null and void rather than declare a champion and put a club up into the LL - they progressive clubs?

[parsforlife]

9 minutes ago, G51 said:

I should correct that - I think what was said is that it had been passed by the SPFL board.

Which is why I think it's inevitable that this is going to leak.

The spfl board can’t approve proposals, they are very limited if a club comes to them with something,  at that point they can only state if their is legal/governance issues.  For example you can’t propose that players can’t sign for another spfl club at the end of their contract,  as that would be against the bosman rulling.  But anything that goes past can get put to clubs. Often it doesn’t go as far as a vote, like the previous b team stuff,  it gets communicated with other clubs, and if there’s no traction to suggest it will pass a vote will be quietly dropped.  

[It's Me]

1 hour ago, Burnieman said:

Explain to me exactly how having Rangers and Celtic Colt teams in the Lowland League for a season will lead to League 2 clubs voting for 2 relegation places?

There is no mention at all of extra promotion places between tier 6 and the LL, that doesn't need OF Colt involvement for that decision to be made.

 

How about this for an idea. 

OF colts team takes part next season - for one year only - for season 2022/23 a new league is created for 16 clubs that are licensed at tier 6 made up from progressive teams from the West , South and East (a SLFL 2). Each year that league has three automatic relegation places to allow the winner of the leagues to go into SLFL2. From SLFL2 the winner goes up automatically and the runner up has a play off with team 16 that is in the SLFL1? 

The SLFL work with the OF to apply pressure and try and come to a solution where the winner of the HL / LL playoff goes straight up with no further playoff required. Or the winner of the HL / LL playoff goes up and the losers plays club 41 in a playoff. Would that help things and how would clubs that are currently at tier 6 feel about dropping to tier 7 to make way for the SLFL2?