BuddyZero Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 17/06/2023 at 09:42, virginton said: Why should teams in the fourth tier of the West of Scotland league have to play nonsense reserve outfits? If it's not acceptable at tier 5 it's not acceptable at any level of the pyramid. My point is starting at the bottom and having to work their way up would provide an air of respectibility to their introduction that elbowing their way in at tier 5 for a pittance does not. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuddyZero Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 On 16/06/2023 at 20:56, HorseyGhirl said: I understand what you're saying. The lowest tiers in the pyramid are full of generally youth players from boys clubs and ex-ammies. With a sprinkling of older semi-pros getting into coaching or dropping down levels. I have two observations; The b teams are generally full timers so what benefit will they get from playing teams like I have mentioned? Why should players who work full time or in full time education and their football at the weekend is in the main for enjoyment, be subjected to playing against full time, pampered, prima donnas. Being probably beaten easily and chasing shadows around the pitch. Who benefits from this scenario? Their clubs benefit financially on a huge scale for the level. An amateur player gritting their teeth and enduring a couple of matches against the most talented teenagers in the country (they might even enjoy the experience?) so their club can get 30 grand annoyance money seems a reasonable scenario in my opinion. If the youths are too good they are promoted and probably never seen again. If its a higher level and they don't get promoted, we're probably talking about 50k at that stage and the club gets that money the next season too. Maybe the pros wouldn't want to start at that level. Maybe they wouldn't want to pay the big fee. So they don't join it, and all the No To B Teams folk are poor but happy. Those are the terms in this hypothesis. We know the Old Firm want in, but they are only dictating terms because a high number of the Lowland League operators, as has been discussed previously and elsewhere, are short term spivs that want a quick buck for their fanless team regardless of what form it takes. It's a sellers market, so instead why don't the rest of the pyramid make the Old Firm a ridiculous offer they shouldn't accept? That would seem preferable to both the existing scenario of really no money at all circulating below the SPFL because locals in small towns contribute to a certain 2 clubs instead, and the recent fiasco of the insertion into the LL which really has been beneficial to nobody (apart from the minimal financial hit they have taken to get involved). They have the money and want in, but do they want in that badly? If so = £££. If not, status quo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PossilYM Posted June 20, 2023 Share Posted June 20, 2023 43 minutes ago, BuddyZero said: My point is starting at the bottom and having to work their way up would provide an air of respectibility to their introduction that elbowing their way in at tier 5 for a pittance does not. Pick any team at the very bottom of the pyramid and say to the LL here's 50K we want in the LL. Wonder what would happen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raidernation Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Basically the bigot twins are entitled scum who do not want any other team at any level to have any decent players. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stanley Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 12 hours ago, BuddyZero said: My point is starting at the bottom and having to work their way up would provide an air of respectibility to their introduction that elbowing their way in at tier 5 for a pittance does not. I don't think it would. It would just delay the inevitable of them reaching the Lowland League whilst blocking promotions spots for various teams on the way up (e.g. imagine Rangers and Celtic B getting promoted each season in the WoS and leaving only promotion spot for regular teams). I think it would also help their case for promotion to the SPFL. "We've worked our way up fairly through promotions and should be entitled to more promotions like any other club". At least them being in the Lowland League (which should never have happened in the first place) has the whole no promotion/relegation rule clearly in place for them. My problem with B teams is not only about them buying their way into the Lowland League, it's that they shouldn't be in the pyramid in the first place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted June 21, 2023 Share Posted June 21, 2023 Think the WoS have a no reserve team rule, so they would probably have to go to the SoS which would put them one promotion away from the LL and two from the SPFL. As long as the SPFL clubs won't take their B teams though this whole exercise is a waste of time. The latest vote should have made it clear they are never getting in at that level and need to look into how to revamp the reserve team setup appropriately instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Haven’t seen any further news on Celtic B and Hearts B, so would seem like they will be in the Lowland League next season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, lowenan said: Haven’t seen any further news on Celtic B and Hearts B, so would seem like they will be in the Lowland League next season. I would have thought their inclusion in the fixture list was a dead giveaway. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowenan Posted July 10, 2023 Share Posted July 10, 2023 Good point. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Listening to a few Hearts people yesterday who I think were parents as they were talking about "their laddie" who is stepping up from the U18's, seem to think they'll be in the LL next season. Maybe just a presumption and they don't know much/anything about the politics of it all. Anyone heard anything? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 5 minutes ago, Burnieman said: Listening to a few Hearts people yesterday who I think were parents as they were talking about "their laddie" who is stepping up from the U18's, seem to think they'll be in the LL next season. Maybe just a presumption and they don't know much/anything about the politics of it all. Anyone heard anything? From what I've heard is that hearts will be applying gain next year, Celtic I'm unsure. But we are going to get this type of gossip constantly but is there any truth in it?. The coaching staff I do know are in favor of it as there were last year as their Hearts team was, I'm sure the youngest out of the 3 B teams but are seeing quicker progression and development of their players. The big question is, will the lowland league vote them in again, after realizing what Rangers were up to, nothing about youth but trying to get their B teams in the pyramid via the new conference? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Hearts B were going to be part of the Conference as well so that absurd reconstruction plan can't just be pinned on Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 59 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Hearts B were going to be part of the Conference as well so that absurd reconstruction plan can't just be pinned on Rangers. Its all viewpoints and subjective unless your in the know but Yeah it can be pinned on Rangers but I'm sure without doubt Celtic and possibly Hearts did know something of what was in the pipeline. From what we all read, hear about, Rangers are the instigators, Why do you think Rangers pulled their team out of the Lowland league this year. What did the 3 teams all sit round the table and say, "right, we've been sussed out so lets just leave the league and Celtic and Hearts said, no we are staying" or did Rangers just pull the plug without consulting Celtic and Hearts, aye right, i think they went in a huff and pulled the pug immediately. Hearts have had the youngest time last year out of the 3 last season, not sure about this season though and they have found it extremely beneficial for the progression and development of their youth players, I watched the Broomhill Hearts game at the end of last season and a quite a few of their players were 17 and sure a couple of 16 year old's. I genuinely believe from what I've seen and what I've heard from certain quarters and people that hearts see a true benefit of the development of their players being in the Lowland League. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 I understand why we ended up with 2 guest teams this season but they surely have to go at the end of the season. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Can remember LL connected podcaster types tweeting that the colt teams would probably have been booted out at the end of last season if the SFA board hadn't started throwing their weight about reconstruction plans and threatened to bring the Conference in this season. The LL board and The Sun journalist dude from Gala Fairydean appeared to be treating the Conference as a fait accompli but now there should be no reason not to get rid of them once and for all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 Probably not an in any way massive sum compared to what the treasure chest fundraiser brings in through the course of a season my red-dotting mentalist friend, so there's no reason on that basis not to vote on this issue based on principle, I would have thought. My understanding is that the BUs have consistently opposed colt teams and consistently supported expanded relegation. Slowly as the years pass there are more clubs entering the LL both from above and below that have a significant fanbase to listen to on issues like this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 47 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Can remember LL connected podcaster types tweeting that the colt teams would probably have been booted out at the end of last season if the SFA board hadn't started throwing their weight about reconstruction plans and threatened to bring the Conference in this season. The LL board and The Sun journalist dude from Gala Fairydean appeared to be treating the Conference as a fait accompli but now there should be no reason not to get rid of them once and for all. You cannot forget that scum Thomas Brown, the Lowland league chairman who said the conference was a done deal and nothing the Lowland or Highland leagues or below could do anything about it. Talk about someone who has been gotten at 9 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Probably not an in any way massive sum compared to what the treasure chest fundraiser brings in through the course of a season my red-dotting mentalist friend, so there's no reason on that basis not to vote on this issue based on principle, I would have thought. My understanding is that the BUs have consistently opposed colt teams and consistently supported expanded relegation. Slowly as the years pass there are more clubs entering the LL both from above and below that have a significant fanbase to listen to on issues like this. We are in a situation where teams do look after themselves but you would hope if East and West teams continue to be promoted and grow stronger that they will vote the right way. The pyramid landscape is changing, however slowly and not helping that at a lowland league meeting, someone stood up and proposed that relegation form the Lowland should not be talked about until after the SPFL2 open their relegation up which was then seconded by another team. This still hasn't been made public, which persons and which teams they represented. One of the things that i still cant shake that the daft tams cant work out. If relegation from the SPFL 2 was opened up then teams being relegated from the SPFL 2 would have a greater chance of getting back after being relegated but teams like East Stirlingshire, Cowdenbeath, Berwick Rangers, Albion Rovers and Brechin City who all voted against relegation from the SPFL2 now realsie its hard to get back with only one play off place available after, first winning the lowland and its not even direct. If you asked all these teams now would they vote to open up relegation from the SPFL2 then yer dammed tooting they would. If the teams below the lowland are getting stronger and bigger then the teams like East Stirlingshire, Cowdenbeath, Berwick Rangers, Albion Rovers, and others coming down are going to find it even harder to get back up due to the east and West teams being superior with more money and or bigger fan bases. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 3 minutes ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: ...This still hasn't been made public, which persons and which teams they represented... 99% sure one of them was Civil Service Strollers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 10 hours ago, Bestsinceslicebread said: From what I've heard is that hearts will be applying gain next year, Celtic I'm unsure. But we are going to get this type of gossip constantly but is there any truth in it?. The coaching staff I do know are in favor of it as there were last year as their Hearts team was, I'm sure the youngest out of the 3 B teams but are seeing quicker progression and development of their players. The big question is, will the lowland league vote them in again, after realizing what Rangers were up to, nothing about youth but trying to get their B teams in the pyramid via the new conference? Who knows. My guess - and its a complete guess - is the SFA will push the LL to retain two B teams given their crackpot Conference plan was binned. In which case, the LL should push for a permanent 18 team league to mirror the HL and increase the relegation spots as a result to at least two, try and turn it into a positive. Plus if two B teams remain, they should be eligible for relegation to tier 6 like any other team. If either Celtic or Hearts withdraw in the future, they're replaced by an extra team from tier 6. Any future B teams enter at the lowest level of the Pyramid in their area. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyramid Watcher Posted October 8, 2023 Share Posted October 8, 2023 1 hour ago, Burnieman said: Who knows. My guess - and its a complete guess - is the SFA will push the LL to retain two B teams given their crackpot Conference plan was binned. In which case, the LL should push for a permanent 18 team league to mirror the HL and increase the relegation spots as a result to at least two, try and turn it into a positive. Plus if two B teams remain, they should be eligible for relegation to tier 6 like any other team. If either Celtic or Hearts withdraw in the future, they're replaced by an extra team from tier 6. Any future B teams enter at the lowest level of the Pyramid in their area. The SFA have reused to allow the LL to go to 18 teams on a permanent basis, 16 is the limit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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