Are YOU Voting for the Alba Party?

[ayrmad]

4 minutes ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'm sure the presumably-departed Stinky Bone doesn't need you to hold his coat for him. 

However, feel free to come back with statistics showing how many men have self-ID'd as women to get into a women-only prison. I mean it sounds like a massive problem. 

I'm sure he'll defend his own opinions. 

I'm only looking for the answer to the question I posed yesterday, surprised that nobody jumped in to answer it quickly. 

[Benjamin_Nevis]

39 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

you should at least dismantle Stinky Bones posts. 

 

5 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

I'm sure he'll defend his own opinions. 

I'm only looking for the answer to the question I posed yesterday, surprised that nobody jumped in to answer it quickly. 

This is why folk just dismiss you as a dribbling UoL fool. 

Justifiably so. I'm working this morning so I'm afraid you'll need to involve someone else in what will almost certainly be another two hours of pathetic attention-seeking 

[ayrmad]

1 minute ago, Day of the Lords said:

 

This is why folk just dismiss you as a dribbling UoL fool. 

Justifiably so. I'm working this morning so I'm afraid you'll need to involve someone else in what will almost certainly be another two hours of pathetic attention-seeking 

That's all you've got, no answers, just abuse and excuses. 

If you can't defend a position then it's not a position worth taking IMO. 

[scottsdad]

This thread, and the stuff on twitter, are highlighting what the Alba party are. Within the SNP there was a batshit crazy element but they were kept quiet. Now they have broken away and, like a squeezed spot, and blowing their poison all over the place. Every grievance accepted, every issue dredged up, personality attacks. And yet, none of these attacks are on the Tories and wider unionists. Their enemy is the SNP. 

[ayrmad]

8 minutes ago, scottsdad said:

This thread, and the stuff on twitter, are highlighting what the Alba party are. Within the SNP there was a batshit crazy element but they were kept quiet. Now they have broken away and, like a squeezed spot, and blowing their poison all over the place. Every grievance accepted, every issue dredged up, personality attacks. And yet, none of these attacks are on the Tories and wider unionists. Their enemy is the SNP. 

How many declared Alba supporters have posted on this thread? 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

2 hours ago, Day of the Lords said:

I'm sure the presumably-departed Stinky Bone doesn't need you to hold his coat for him. 

However, feel free to come back with statistics showing how many men have self-ID'd as women to get into a women-only prison. I mean it sounds like a massive problem. 

The figure repeatedly quoted in the press  is 1 in 50 male prisoners, about 4 times the expected rate, the implication being that three quarters of them are "at it". 

Taking, for the sake of argument, that claim at face value and applying these rates to Scotland's prison typical population would give a typical "Women's" prison population of 400 Biological Women, 40 genuine Trans Women, and 120 chancers

Given that 82/7% of statistics on the internet are spurious I was sceptical. The most solid primary source I could find was this FoI response
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/631175/response/1510913/attach/3/02jan andrews foi survey B002 2020.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Although that actually works out at 1 in 60 as opposed to the 1 in 50 that is usually quoted which would suggest more like 135 as opposed to 160 but in terms of assessing the general scale of the issue we're sill in the same territory

Whether the protection of those 400 women is a "massive" issue in a nation of 5 million people  is a matter of opinion and semantics but if you were to argue that is isn't while claiming that the protection of 40, or 135  or even 60 transwomen is a "massive" issue you would have an apparent logical inconsistency to resolve.

Personally speaking, I don't see either consideration as sufficiently "massive" to impact my voting choice 

 

But I do love statistics

 

Edited April 26, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[scottsdad]

Batshit crazy Alba followers. They are much more about trans/gender stuff than they are about independence.

[ayrmad]

12 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The figure repeatedly quoted in the press  is 1 in 50 male prisoners, about 4 times the expected rate, the implication being that three quarters of them are "at it". 

Taking, for the sake of argument, that claim at face value and applying these rates to Scotland's prison typical population would give a typical "Women's" prison population of 400 Biological Women, 40 genuine Trans Women, and 120 chancers

Given that 82/7% of statistics on the internet are spurious I was sceptical. The most solid primary source I could find was this FoI response
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/631175/response/1510913/attach/3/02jan andrews foi survey B002 2020.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Although that actually works out at 1 in 60 as opposed to the 1 in 50 that is usually quoted which would suggest more like 135 as opposed to 160 but in terms of assessing the general scale of the issue we're sill in the same territory

Whether the protection of those 400 women is a "massive" issue in a nation of 5 million people  is a matter of opinion and semantics but if you were to argue that is isn't while claiming that the protection of 40, or 135  or even 60 transwomen is a "massive" issue you would have an apparent logical inconsistency to resolve.

Personally speaking, I don't see either consideration as sufficiently "massive" to impact my voting choice 

 

But I do love statistics

 

It's a big number if that was extrapolated across the general population using women only spaces or applying for women only jobs. 

 

[topcat(The most tip top)]

46 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

It's a big number if that was extrapolated across the general population using women only spaces or applying for women only jobs. 

 

Possibly, but I  can't reasonably be expected to do all your sum for you

 

[ayrmad]

4 minutes ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

Possibly, but I  can't reasonably be expected to do all your sum for you

 

I don't need anyone to do my sums thanks. 

Just making sure that this debating point is not characterised around a few nutters as a means of deflection/obfuscation. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

Alba now clearly a party obsessed with divisive fringe issues when they should be focussing on their goal of independence (which a really good and not mad blogger says they don't actually want anyway) imo

[Baxter Parp]

14 minutes ago, ayrmad said:

I don't need anyone to do my sums thanks. 

Just making sure that this debating point is not characterised around a few nutters as a means of deflection/obfuscation. 

Deflection from what?

[ayrmad]

9 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said:

Deflection from what?

From answering seemingly difficult questions. 

[Baxter Parp]

1 minute ago, ayrmad said:

From answering seemingly difficult questions. 

What difficult questions?

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, ayrmad said:

It's a big number if that was extrapolated across the general population using women only spaces or applying for women only jobs. 

 

How has GRA reform in other countries where it's been enacted impacted on women only spaces or jobs specifically ring-fenced for women?

[picklish]

I understand that it hasn't negatively effected things, but wouldn't be sure where to find the evidence that indicates that is the case.

Reviewing the evidence is a different matter entirely, and I don't know if there's been funding or time to do things like systematic reviews on the questions

 

Hard to argue that the SNP aren't also divided on this issue, Joan McAlpine and Joanna Cherry at least

[picklish]

2 hours ago, topcat(The most tip top) said:

The figure repeatedly quoted in the press  is 1 in 50 male prisoners, about 4 times the expected rate, the implication being that three quarters of them are "at it". 

Taking, for the sake of argument, that claim at face value and applying these rates to Scotland's prison typical population would give a typical "Women's" prison population of 400 Biological Women, 40 genuine Trans Women, and 120 chancers

Given that 82/7% of statistics on the internet are spurious I was sceptical. The most solid primary source I could find was this FoI response
https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/631175/response/1510913/attach/3/02jan andrews foi survey B002 2020.pdf?cookie_passthrough=1

Although that actually works out at 1 in 60 as opposed to the 1 in 50 that is usually quoted which would suggest more like 135 as opposed to 160 but in terms of assessing the general scale of the issue we're sill in the same territory

Whether the protection of those 400 women is a "massive" issue in a nation of 5 million people  is a matter of opinion and semantics but if you were to argue that is isn't while claiming that the protection of 40, or 135  or even 60 transwomen is a "massive" issue you would have an apparent logical inconsistency to resolve.

Personally speaking, I don't see either consideration as sufficiently "massive" to impact my voting choice 

 

But I do love statistics

 

Good work

What always strikes me as missing in the debate is that it seems to me that there's a way to protect both groups, and that's recognise a third gender, resulting in separate prisons and domestic violence refuges, when the numbers are small enough that it wouldn't seem to create too much expense and moderately satisfy both groups without infringing on each others rights

 

[Baxter Parp]

3 minutes ago, Pato said:

Thankfully Joan McAlpine looks likely to lose her seat next month. Cherry's clearly having plenty of bedrest/waiting like Chuka Umunna to see which way the cards fall re: Alba*.

 

*(delete according to cynicism).

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19191740.joanna-cherry-confirms-will-not-joining-alex-salmonds-alba-party/

Joanna Cherry confirms she will not be joining Alex Salmond's Alba Party

You can stop biting your nails.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

1 hour ago, picklish said:

Good work

What always strikes me as missing in the debate is that it seems to me that there's a way to protect both groups, and that's recognize a third gender, resulting in separate prisons and domestic violence refuges, when the numbers are small enough that it wouldn't seem to create too much expense and moderately satisfy both groups without infringing on each others rights

 

It's almost as if human compassion for the prisoners as human beings isn't actually the prime motivation.

Edited April 26, 2021 by topcat(The most tip top)

[Tutankhamen]

4 hours ago, ayrmad said:

How many declared Alba supporters have posted on this thread? 

I voted for Alba on this thread for a laugh as I suspect most others did.

In the real world Alba won't get anywhere near 6.5% and will be a footnote for political history geeks.