G'Day! Ange's Gap Year Celtic Euro Backpacking Tour 2021/22.

[Derry Alli]

McLean was a bullying, horrible little bastirt. He signed about 400 boys a year at United and ruined more than he made. 

[Monkey Tennis]

12 minutes ago, Derry Alli said:

McLean was a bullying, horrible little bastirt. 

He was aye.

[bennett]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Ferguson has the edge over him, albeit with a bigger club.

Any kind of Stein comparison breaks down though.   There is nothing remarkable about Celtic winning lots of trophies. 

It's a shame he didn't stay at Leeds for longer.  It might have given us a better chance of assessing his worth, in the way we got to with Lennon, Smith and Rodgers.

 

With every referee being against them in that era, it's the most remarkable feat in football. 

 

[Luddite]

13 hours ago, Luddite said:

 

3/ I think either your reading comprehension skills are lacking or you are so emotionally involved you are intentionally misreading my responses.

@MolotovI take this back. I enjoyed the debate. In fact I enjoy discussing the exploits of 20th Century British football managers more than just about any other subject.

That being said, I can see the merit behind arguments for a multitude of managers - Stein, Fergie, Clough/Taylor, Wallace, Revie, Shankly, The other Shankly, Greenwood, Kendal, Graham, Wilkinson, Nicholson…I may ultimately not agree with them but I could understand the argument being made. You seem completely unwilling to even entertain the argument for McLean on any level.

Anyway, as Rocky Balboa realised when assessing if there were more moths or flies in his turtle food…who the hell cares?

 

 

 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Luddite

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, Luddite said:

@MolotovI take this back. I enjoyed the debate. In fact I enjoy discussing the exploits of 20th Century British football managers more than just about any other subject.

That being said, I can see the merit behind arguments for a multitude of managers - Stein, Fergie, Clough/Taylor, Wallace, Revie, Shankly, The other Shankly, Greenwood, Kendal, Graham, Wilkinson, Nicholson…I may ultimately not agree with them but I could understand the argument being made. You seem completely unwillingly to even entertain the argument for McLean on any level.

God, if that's the list, I need to chuck in another name before scrambling for cover: 

Alf Ramsay.

 

More for 1962 than anything that might have come later.

[willywastecoat]

12 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm disrespecting Stein a bit, just for the Hell of it.

Monkey this is why you come across as a Bigot,must not give Celtic any credit at any time,i'm not calling you a rangers fan but you have the same traits plus I know you hate them just as much which inturn proves my point.
You have no tolarance for either club even in their heyday,comparing managers on resources instead of their footballing knowledge is the daftest thing i've read on here,if MacLean managed Celtic you would say the same thing that's how ridiculous and stupid it is.
For me it was Ferguson but even Ferguson said Stein was better who the feck cares they were all great in their own way.

[Luddite]

3 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

God, if that's the list, I need to chuck in another name before scrambling for cover: 

Alf Ramsay.

 

More for 1962 than anything that might have come later.

Hate to admit it but I don’t know enough about him to comment. Had to look up your ‘62 reference, didn’t even know he was Ipswich manger for their First Division title

Worth a deep dive I reckon

[willywastecoat]

13 hours ago, Luddite said:

2/ The question I’m asking is not “what did they achieve?” but “What did they achieve relative to the resources available to them”

When are you going to realise money has no value,we are living in a cashless society where players are being bought for fecking bitcoin.

[bennett]

In Scotland celtic get away with it, those Euro refs can't be intimidated. 

 

And Irish defender Scales admitted: “It’s probably that we’re a young team and maybe a bit naive at times.

“You come and play in Europe and the referees, you get nothing out of them.

“They are a lot stricter, and tackles you might get away with domestically, are fouls.

With VAR, you’re going to pick up red cards in the way we’ve been doing.

“It’s frustrating, because with 11 players on the pitch we had started quite well in Madrid

 

[Monkey Tennis]

6 hours ago, willywastecoat said:

When are you going to realise money has no value,we are living in a cashless society where players are being bought for fecking bitcoin.

All of which is money.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 hours ago, willywastecoat said:

Monkey this is why you come across as a Bigot

Marvellous.

That's my favourite.

[Molotov]

18 hours ago, Luddite said:

You seem completely unwilling to even entertain the argument for McLean on any level.

I don’t think that’s entirely fair.

I said on a good few posts that McLean was a very good manager.
 

I also stated the following:

22 hours ago, Molotov said:

Had Roma not bribed the referee then perhaps Jim could have been right up there if they had beaten Liverpool in Rome.

Had he won a European trophy with United he would have been a great Scottish manager like Stein and Ferguson - especially with the limited resources. I still believe that his domestic achievements in Scotland were far less than Ferguson with Aberdeen with a non-OF team. 

Fergie “guided Aberdeen to three top-flight titles, four Scottish Cups, and triumph in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup.” Fcuk knows where I copied that from. 

 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Molotov
Edited to satisfy @monkey tennis

[willywastecoat]

1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

All of which is money.

With no value.

[Monkey Tennis]

55 minutes ago, Molotov said:

Fergie guided Aberdeen to three top-flight titles, four Scottish Cups, and triumphs in the UEFA Cup Winners' Cup and UEFA Super Cup.

I'm not really arguing with the thrust of what you're saying here.

However, that Super Cup has recently gained far higher billing than it ever had at the time.  Back then, it was more of a Charity Shield type affair.  Nobody really saw it as another European trophy at all.

[Monkey Tennis]

7 minutes ago, willywastecoat said:

With no value.

This makes precisely no sense.  

You are thoroughly consistent, I'll give you that.

[kingjoey]

8 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not really arguing with the thrust of what you're saying here.

However, that Super Cup has recently gained far higher billing than it ever had at the time.  Back then, it was more of a Charity Shield type affair.  Nobody really saw it as another European trophy at all.

I did. So not nobody.

[willywastecoat]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

This makes precisely no sense.  

You are thoroughly consistent, I'll give you that.

So you're tell me spending 100 million on a player is true value?

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, kingjoey said:

I did. So not nobody.

Ok, one person.

You get what I'm saying though - no?

I have genuinely no idea who won this in any other year from the period.  I well remember watching all those triumphs for English sides in the European Cup in the late 70s and early 80s.  I don't know if they won the Super Cup or not though - it had no profile, and it just didn't register.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, willywastecoat said:

So you're tell me spending 100 million on a player is true value?

Of course it's not Oscar.

[willywastecoat]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Of course it's not Oscar.

So there is no value.