craigkillie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 If the Lowland League introduced a rule that the team with the fewest points would be declared champion, or the team with the longest name would be declared champion, that wouldn't automatically be accepted. There is very clear grounds for the SPFL, Highland League or specifically club 42 to challenge the validity of the Lowland League's choice of champion if it is not simply the club who has the most points. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deanburn Dave Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 Responding to RossB talking about 'kids' Spot on John. Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: ^^^In reality what the SFA actually told them was that they couldn't choose a champion after null and voiding a season which is what George Fraser and co in their infinite wisdom were about to try and do in an LL context. There had to be an actual season to base it upon as there will have been when the outcome of the 2021-22 season is determined. Basing the identity of the champion on a rule voted through at the 2021 LL AGM is on more solid ground than PPG was. In reality you're a random person on the internet like the rest of us that has no idea of the exact details of what's gone on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, craigkillie said: If the Lowland League introduced a rule that the team with the fewest points would be declared champion, or the team with the longest name would be declared champion, that wouldn't automatically be accepted... They didn't and there is zero chance they ever would so your entire line of argument is a complete red herring. If any other party involved with the Club 42 playoff wanted to challenge the validity of the rules the LL implemented to accomodate the colt teams the time to take it up with the SFA was immediately after the LL AGM. Nobody did and the 2021-22 season has commenced with them very much in place with all the other parties fully aware of their implications. Edited August 9, 2021 by LongTimeLurker -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 8 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...all that ultimately matters is what is actually stated in the rulebook not what people think is right or wrong based on notions of fair play or common sense. Rightly or wrongly Bonnyrigg Rose would be the LL champions under the scenario outlined according to the LL constitution that is in place so all that's open to the SPFL at that point under the Club 42 rule is to determine whether Bonyrigg Rose (or whoever, hopefully Bo'ness United despite the slow start) meet SPFL membership requirements. Somebody might decide to waste their money again by trying to launch a legal challenge but the outcome would almost certainly be the same this time around as well. Is that right, aye? "H3 The winning of the Championship of the League will be decided on results of the Home and Away matches between the Clubs in membership, three points for a win, one point for a draw. The Club scoring the highest number of points will be declared the Champion." From the Lowland League rules: http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SLFL-Rules-Version-13.pdf "III.1. The League Champions of the SHFL and the SLFL at the end of season 2015/2016 and in each season thereafter will (subject to rule Ill(f)) take part in the Play-Off Match which shall consist of a home and away two-legged match approved and organised by the Scottish F.A to determine, subject to these rules, which club shall take part in the Pyramid Play-Off Match. A draw supervised by the Scottish FA will determine which club has home advantage in the first match." "III.6 In the event that one of the Champion Clubs in the SHFL or the SLFL fails to comply with the Membership Criteria in circumstances where it is required to do so as the Candidate Club in terms of the SPFL Rules, and the SPFL Board has not granted any waiver, relaxation or period of grace in respect of that club’s requirement to comply with the Membership Criteria, there will be no Play-Off Match in terms of rule Ill(a) and, the other Champion Club will automatically go forward to the Pyramid Play-Off Match in terms of rule Ill(b)." From the Pyramid Play-Off rules: http://slfl.co.uk/rules/pyramid-play-off-rules/ The only possible way round that is to argue that the B teams are not "Clubs in membership" for the purposes of H3, which might be completely accurate and fair. But in that case, the results of matches between members and non-members do not count towards winning the league, which means that they should have a separate league table for results among the member clubs only. Either the B teams are non-members and their results don't count, or they must be declared champions if they get the most points. There's no other option. I might be mistaken but I presume that the B teams don't meet the SPFL's Membership Criteria, so would not be eligible for the play-off. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 9, 2021 Share Posted August 9, 2021 6 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: They didn't and there is zero chance they ever would so your entire line of argument is a complete red herring. If any other party involved with the Club 42 playoff wanted to challenge the validity of the rules the LL implemented to accomodate the colt teams the time to take it up with the SFA was immediately after the LL AGM. Nobody did and the 2021-22 season has commenced with them very much in place with all the other parties fully aware of their implications. No, in fact any other party would be at an advantage if they simply waited until March/April time to challenge the validity of the rules, since that would leave the LL unable to rectify it if it went against them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 6 hours ago, GordonS said: Is that right, aye? "H3 The winning of the Championship of the League will be decided on results of the Home and Away matches between the Clubs in membership, three points for a win, one point for a draw. The Club scoring the highest number of points will be declared the Champion." From the Lowland League rules: http://slfl.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/SLFL-Rules-Version-13.pdf Chances are they will have updated their rulebook following the inclusion of the 'B' teams. It's no surprise they haven't been published, considering how their rules have been picked apart online since Selkirk going bust. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 (edited) 7 hours ago, craigkillie said: No, in fact any other party would be at an advantage if they simply waited until March/April time to challenge the validity of the rules, since that would leave the LL unable to rectify it if it went against them. ...and the midpoint of the Tay Bridge is all important because a few posters on P&B with maps with lines of latitude on them know better than the top SFA officeholders how the SFA rulebook works so Tayport, Letham and Scone can't possibly wind up in an HL feeder. Sure bud whatever. Maybe try to give your hatred of Rangers and Unionism a rest for five minutes so some of us who actually do care about the fortunes of a Lowland League club (in my case a club that did actually do the right thing by voting against colt team entry) can use this subforum to focus on the football. Edited August 10, 2021 by LongTimeLurker -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 25 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Maybe try to give your hatred of Rangers and Unionism a rest for five minutes so some of us who actually do care about the fortunes of a Lowland League club (in my case a club that did actually do the right thing by voting against colt team entry) can use this subforum to focus on the football. I didn't realise the Accies got relegated this far down 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...and the midpoint of the Tay Bridge is all important because a few posters on P&B with maps with lines of latitude on them know better than the top SFA officeholders how the SFA rulebook works so Tayport, Letham and Scone can't possibly wind up in an HL feeder. Sure bud whatever. Maybe try to give your hatred of Rangers and Unionism a rest for five minutes so some of us who actually do care about the fortunes of a Lowland League club (in my case a club that did actually do the right thing by voting against colt team entry) can use this subforum to focus on the football. Knock knock. Who's there? Non sequitur. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Chances are they will have updated their rulebook following the inclusion of the 'B' teams. It's no surprise they haven't been published, considering how their rules have been picked apart online since Selkirk going bust. They've changed their rules but kept the old ones up on the website? That wouldn't be impressive either. All the clubs would have copies of the new rules, can anyone get hold of one? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Knock knock. Who's there? Non sequitur. What do you think the "Rangers and Unionism" reference was about? Aren't Celtic and Rangers both in this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said: Chances are they will have updated their rulebook following the inclusion of the 'B' teams. It's no surprise they haven't been published, considering how their rules have been picked apart online since Selkirk going bust. So much for transparency. Rather than hiding their rules away because they might get picked apart, they should maybe try just making them watertight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 Just now, GordonS said: What do you think the "Rangers and Unionism" reference was about? Aren't Celtic and Rangers both in this? He's a raging unionist himself so he's projecting a bit I suppose. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonS Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, craigkillie said: He's a raging unionist himself so he's projecting a bit I suppose. In that case I'll go with "conflicted". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 30 minutes ago, craigkillie said: So much for transparency. Rather than hiding their rules away because they might get picked apart, they should maybe try just making them watertight. I don't think they've updated any of the rules on their website, as the Development League ones are out of date as well. In which case i'm not sure how intentional it has been. The site has had some stick this year with the results updates, and looking at their 'News' section they haven't posted a single article since the 2nd July. Instead of getting more professional this summer off the back of the OF investment. They've actually taken a step back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newcastle broon Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 14 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Instead of getting more professional this summer off the back of the OF investment. They've actually taken a step back. Coinciding with one of the leagues main reps in office being too busy branding their team a new name altogether. Shambles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 10, 2021 Share Posted August 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, newcastle broon said: Coinciding with one of the leagues main reps in office being too busy branding their team a new name altogether. Shambles. The person that oversees the site has also been busy playing cricket. As that came out when the results were slow in being updated. It has been quite poor this season. No season preview, or weekly result round up articles. The Development League section seems to still be from 2019-20. If everything was being ignored I could understand it, but they're still updating the likes of 'Top Goalscorer'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted August 22, 2021 Share Posted August 22, 2021 (edited) Now Bo'ness are extreme longshots for promotion my interest in this topic has dwindled considerably at least until this time next year but judging from what is on the geneal chat LL thread I had managed to overestimate George Fraser's competence level when I wrote some of the above posts. Ploughing ahead with colt team entry before the SFA had actually had time to fully sign off on it appears to have opened the door to having all sorts of pressure applied to finally have the Tay Bridge midpoint line of latitude boundary removed from the Club 42 playoff rule. Who knows, Brechin City may yet be making an appearance for 2022-23 from stage right? The tail normally isn't allowed to wag the dog within any hierarchical organisation. Edited August 22, 2021 by LongTimeLurker 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 23, 2021 Share Posted August 23, 2021 No one that paid attention to the Development League controversy will be surprised about the LL ploughing ahead without everything signed off on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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