VincentGuerin Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 Just now, houston_bud said: I agree with everything you say apart from the quoted bit. These clowns had lost it long before VAR. VAR is just a new thing fur them to find wild conspiracy in. They've always been wired to the moon, agreed. But VAR has pushed them to greater depths of paranoia and pedantry. Part of the problem is that, as they have been told, decisions are now "correct" because we have VAR, so any time there's a decision they don't like, the only answer is cheating. They've basically been told that errors are now inexcusable, and it's removed what was left of their brains. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 The people that treated VAR like it was some kind of sentient AI instead of just a human at a monitor always made me laugh. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 57 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: I don't really agree with this. Unless you mean people with superhuman powers of vision, perception, and judgement. Football is too fast and has rules that are too subjective for anyone to go through a full televised 90 minutes without making a decision someone will disagree with. Add in the rampant paranoia and blame-shifting culture in the sport, and referees can't be blamed for taking ages to make a decision. As to what's right or wrong, well, often who is to say? People tend to simply decide based on what team they support, so the ref can't win. It can never work. It does not fit with the sport. This idea of people who will be able to come in and make VAR work properly is a fantasy that denies how the game works. I'm not suggesting for one minute that VAR would totally take out controversy of decisions in football. Not one bit. But there are glaringly obvious decisions that people who play the game and watch the game can see through common sense are ridiculous. So what is the conclusion of that? A mixture of incompetence and applying rules that aren't fit for purpose. The frustration for me is when VAR and the on field officials take 5 or 6 minutes for a decision and then still come to the wrong conclusion. I can look at this objectively as I am not a total moron and blinded by bias; I understand that may well be the case for a lot of people... I don't understand your last point though, surely the idea of having people who can work VAR properly is an aim. If that is a fantasy then we may as well just pack it in and give up. ETA: This may not necessarily be 'new' people, but the quality of refereeing has always been questionable in this country and even more so now with technology implemented to actually help them with decisions. Edited November 7, 2023 by Pens_Dark 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said: I'm not suggesting for one minute that VAR would totally take out controversy of decisions in football. Not one bit. But there are glaringly obvious decisions that people who play the game and watch the game can see through common sense are ridiculous. So what is the conclusion of that? A mixture of incompetence and applying rules that aren't fit for purpose. The frustration for me is when VAR and the on field officials take 5 or 6 minutes for a decision and then still come to the wrong conclusion. I can look at this objectively as I am not a total moron and blinded by bias; I understand that may well be the case for a lot of people... I don't understand your last point though, surely the idea of having people who can work VAR properly is an aim. If that is a fantasy then we may as well just pack it in and give up. Here's hoping 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 10 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said: I don't understand your last point though, surely the idea of having people who can work VAR properly is an aim. If that is a fantasy then we may as well just pack it in and give up. Yes. Exactly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pens_Dark Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, VincentGuerin said: That kind of person just makes me sad. It's the failure to understand what the laws of the game are for. Offside is about gaining an advantage and basically poaching. It makes the game work in the way we recognise it. Fouls are about booting folk and impeding them by cheating or trying to hurt folk. Not "he made slight contact with the outside of his calf, game changing penalty!". Handball is to stop folk fucking catching the ball. It's not about punishing someone for having arms while sliding to defend a cross. It's just sad that people want to see football as a sport of technical offences. It never used to be, and it's one of the things that make it so much more watchable than sports like rugby. It's just becoming fucking tedious. And that's before we even touch on the impact of fans. See Celtic Twitter for a group of people whose brains have been permanantly fucked by the existence of VAR. These points you make are spot on though. Offside is for me the most frustrating, as people say 'well you can't argue with the offside decisions' but there is nothing worse than seeing an incredibly well worked goal chopped off because the players shoulder is marginally offside to the defender when it poses no real advantage. The game has been made objectively worse, I don't think any purist could disagree with that. As far as I'm concerned now if the decisions are going to be wrong then at least let them be natural to the game. Edited November 7, 2023 by Pens_Dark 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 6 hours ago, Busta Nut said: I canny believe people watch English fitba. It's a fucking circus. All the stadia and players are just so fucking generic. It looks like a computer game*. No thank you. *Top flight. The lower leagues are a bit more interesting, in a "smash it up to the big lad and chase after it" kind of way. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 7 hours ago, Busta Nut said: I canny believe people watch English fitba. It's a fucking circus. I agree. But I'd enjoy watching the circus more. 50 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: All the stadia and players are just so fucking generic. It looks like a computer game*. No thank you. *Top flight. The lower leagues are a bit more interesting, in a "smash it up to the big lad and chase after it" kind of way. I tune in to all the English leagues, mostly highlights, sometimes live games. Plus in the last few days games in Brazil, Czechia, Portugal, Spain and Germany. It seems like the English top league is the one which wastes most time on VAR decisions, and Scottish football will likely follow that lead soon enough. Reiterating something I've mentioned months ago on this thread, VAR cannot be used to determine marginal offsides: the point at which a travelling ball leaves the foot can't possibly be picked up and isolated to compare to the position of a potentially offside player. The cameras used don't have the fps to judge this, in the same way as the cameras can't tell in extreme cases if the ball is in or out of the playing pitch. The technology used is open to abuse, as the referees are treating the VAR officials as infallible. Var needs binned. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VincentGuerin Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 5 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: All the stadia and players are just so fucking generic. It looks like a computer game*. No thank you. *Top flight. The lower leagues are a bit more interesting, in a "smash it up to the big lad and chase after it" kind of way. Once you get below the top end of the Championship, English fitba is great. The non-leagues are wonderful places to watch a game. Great wee grounds with nice social clubs, you can buy a pint and have a chat. Quite affordable. Brilliant. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobby12340 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 The red card Livi got away with at Dundee on Sunday was unbelievable. Red card everywhere in Europe but not here in Scotland. Not even a tackle just took Rudden out as he ran past him him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 56 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said: Once you get below the top end of the Championship, English fitba is great. The non-leagues are wonderful places to watch a game. Great wee grounds with nice social clubs, you can buy a pint and have a chat. Quite affordable. Brilliant. Indeed. I used to live in Kent, and Tonbridge Angels were my local team, then of the Isthmian League. Doing exceedingly well these days which I am appreciating from afar. Went over to Gillingham to see them play Spurs in a pre season friendly once, but never again. Go to Gillingham, that is. Shudder. Edited November 7, 2023 by Ranaldo Bairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 The differences in VAR between live and non-live games has been well-documented, but even at those non-live games the setup can be inconsistent. At Dens this afternoon, there’s no camera high behind a goal. Both goals have a low camera to the side of them. This means you could have identical incidents at two games this afternoon, and two different decisions not because of different interpretations of the rules, but because of different camera angles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Busta Nut Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 That penalty Rangers just got and missed. It was a blatant dive. What's the fucking point in VAR if that can't be overturned? I'm not one for the "cheating" narrative but that sort of thing always makes me question myself. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim McLean's Ghost Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 (edited) If there ever a case of a player going down before a challege and any contact being minimal that was it. Seemed like an easy one for VAR to overturn but obviously not... Edited November 12, 2023 by Jim McLean's Ghost 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve McQueen Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 No-one ever gets booked for diving anymore? You would think VAR would increase that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cptn Hooch Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said: No-one ever gets booked for diving anymore? You would think VAR would increase that. Var can't be used to give a yellow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 People keep saying that the VAR technology has to be binned. But there’s nothing wrong with the technology, it’s the referees operating the technology that is the problem. There was nothing wrong with the technology that showed the young Rangers cheat diving in the first half today, the problem was that whoever the VAR is at that match decided it was a foul. The problem is always with the humans not the technology. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said: Var can't be used to give a yellow If the referee originally gives a penalty that VAR shows to be a dive, the player can (and should) be booked. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thenorthernlight Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 46 minutes ago, kingjoey said: People keep saying that the VAR technology has to be binned. But there’s nothing wrong with the technology, it’s the referees operating the technology that is the problem. There was nothing wrong with the technology that showed the young Rangers cheat diving in the first half today, the problem was that whoever the VAR is at that match decided it was a foul. The problem is always with the humans not the technology. Too many letters in there. Remove the m & the a. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
accies1874 Posted November 12, 2023 Share Posted November 12, 2023 50 minutes ago, kingjoey said: People keep saying that the VAR technology has to be binned. But there’s nothing wrong with the technology, it’s the referees operating the technology that is the problem. If your technology isn't suitable for the people using it then maybe it needs binned. Considering the VAR apologists across the globe trot this line out since it came in, VAR should therefore be binned across the globe until it's suitable for the users (which would ideally, and likely, be never). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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