VAR in Scottish Football

[Portmahomack Saint]

I think the naming of this technology should have been warning enough to everyone this wasn't a good idea.

Video Aid for Rangers 

[bennett]

3 minutes ago, Portmahomack Saint said:

I think the naming of this technology should have been warning enough to everyone this wasn't a good idea.

Video Aid for Rangers 

2 goals correctly chopped off and 2 penalties correctly given.

 

Seems pretty fair to me.

 

 

[indicator]

2 hours ago, Steve McQueen said:

No-one ever gets booked for diving anymore? You would think VAR would increase that.

Just seen a re-run of that. Clear as day simulation. Did the VAR operator check it, how would we know. Did he decide aww naw if I do check it it will disadvantage TRFC. Who was the VAR OP?

[Richey Edwards]

Replace VAR with a panel of judges like Strictly Come Dancing.

[Cptn Hooch]

55 minutes ago, The Master said:

If the referee originally gives a penalty that VAR shows to be a dive, the player can (and should) be booked. 

I agree they should be but I've definitely been told by someone in the know that the referee can't use it to book someone. Even if that act was to deliberately (and in this occasion, successfully) con the referee.

[The Master]

1 hour ago, Cptn Hooch said:

I agree they should be but I've definitely been told by someone in the know that the referee can't use it to book someone. Even if that act was to deliberately (and in this occasion, successfully) con the referee.

That person can't be that much “in the know” because VAR can be (and has been) used to book players for diving when the original decision was to award a penalty. 

Quote

Kent won a penalty, then was booked for diving under Alex Cochrane's challenge when the decision was overturned, and only some fine goalkeeping from Clark prevented Hearts succumbing to a hammering amid a glut of Rangers chances.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64395319

Edited November 12, 2023 by The Master

[Cptn Hooch]

11 minutes ago, The Master said:

That person can be that much “in the know” because VAR can be (and has been) used to book players for diving when the original decision was to award a penalty. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64395319

News to me, probably says more about the folk running VAR that it was a referee who told me that...maybe his wording should have been "var can't be used to book a rangers player"

[10menwent2mow]

VAR can f**k right off. Clear and obvious error my fucking arse. Get it fired into the fucking sun. 

[Charles Stiles]

1 hour ago, The Master said:

That person can't be that much “in the know” because VAR can be (and has been) used to book players for diving when the original decision was to award a penalty. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64395319

Surely all VAR did was show that it wasn't a penalty and the player dived. It was then this refs decision to book him as many don't or are you saying the VAR said 'It's a dive. Issue a yellow card' which he wouldn't have done unless told to?

[The Master]

45 minutes ago, Charles Stiles said:

Surely all VAR did was show that it wasn't a penalty and the player dived. It was then this refs decision to book him as many don't or are you saying the VAR said 'It's a dive. Issue a yellow card' which he wouldn't have done unless told to?

Semantics.

Following a VAR review, the referee determined that Ryan Kent dived and subsequently decided to issue a yellow card. Without VAR, the yellow card would not have been issued. 

[craigkillie]

On 07/11/2023 at 13:14, Pens_Dark said:

Who would have thought that introducing new technology and not improving the quality of the referees in the first place would have came with disastrous conclusions? Pretty much everyone, that's who.

How do you "improve the quality of the referees"? We can't go out and sign new ones from other countries, and if anything the number of people interested in being one has decreased over the last few years.

[parsforlife]

36 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

How do you "improve the quality of the referees"? We can't go out and sign new ones from other countries, and if anything the number of people interested in being one has decreased over the last few years.

Aye, numbers is always a massive factor in being able to find to best and we’re struggling to get enough numbers to even cover games nevermind be able to filter some out.

How do you improve that?  Pay? Being a ref isn’t a terrible wee earner at amateur and at pro level whilst you’ll walk away with less than the players we are far closer in proportion to what the big leagues pay, we’re maybe paying refs 40-50% of players, top leagues it’s closer to 4-5%

You then have culture which is a big turn off too many, it’s simply too easy to abuse/ assault referees and they end up thinking f**k this well before any potential can develop even if they choose to try in the first place.

So we’re left with training of those who are active, now I don’t have any details of this and certainly can’t compare our training vs other FAs but when the best it can be is a part-time profession how much time can we dedicate to this?

One scheme I’d like implemented is for every club to put someone through the course every season, but that’s more aimed at improving player/ref relationships. Would you get buy in from the clubs for that? Doubtful

[eindhovendee]

1 hour ago, craigkillie said:

How do you "improve the quality of the referees"? We can't go out and sign new ones from other countries, and if anything the number of people interested in being one has decreased over the last few years.

Indeed, this week's CL games all had refs wearing "be a referee" on them.

[ropy]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

Aye, numbers is always a massive factor in being able to find to best and we’re struggling to get enough numbers to even cover games nevermind be able to filter some out.

How do you improve that?  Pay? Being a ref isn’t a terrible wee earner at amateur and at pro level whilst you’ll walk away with less than the players we are far closer in proportion to what the big leagues pay, we’re maybe paying refs 40-50% of players, top leagues it’s closer to 4-5%

You then have culture which is a big turn off too many, it’s simply too easy to abuse/ assault referees and they end up thinking f**k this well before any potential can develop even if they choose to try in the first place.

So we’re left with training of those who are active, now I don’t have any details of this and certainly can’t compare our training vs other FAs but when the best it can be is a part-time profession how much time can we dedicate to this?

One scheme I’d like implemented is for every club to put someone through the course every season, but that’s more aimed at improving player/ref relationships. Would you get buy in from the clubs for that? Doubtful

Every Industry puts their staff through training schemes and where appropriate helps them acquire professional qualifications, there is no reason why football clubs don’t put their players through referee training.  It would ensure that players understood the rules (laws), it would allow dialogue on the pitch to use a common language, intelligent questioning may result in the referee thinking again on a decision.  It’s just common sense.  If a byproduct of that exercise is that one or two players drift into refereeing then so be it.

[parsforlife]

26 minutes ago, ropy said:

Every Industry puts their staff through training schemes and where appropriate helps them acquire professional qualifications, there is no reason why football clubs don’t put their players through referee training.  It would ensure that players understood the rules (laws), it would allow dialogue on the pitch to use a common language, intelligent questioning may result in the referee thinking again on a decision.  It’s just common sense.  If a byproduct of that exercise is that one or two players drift into refereeing then so be it.

all true, which is why even if it hasn’t become an official scheme by FA’s I don’t understand why clubs aren’t already actively pursuing it.   Millions poured into sport scientists, tactical analysis, physiotherapy,  psychology  etc but nothing in trying to improve their knowledge on of what refs will and won’t allow on the training ground on a daily basis why that happens I’ve got no idea 

[Sugar_Army]

22 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

all true, which is why even if it hasn’t become an official scheme by FA’s I don’t understand why clubs aren’t already actively pursuing it.   Millions poured into sport scientists, tactical analysis, physiotherapy,  psychology  etc but nothing in trying to improve their knowledge on of what refs will and won’t allow on the training ground on a daily basis why that happens I’ve got no idea 

A job for retired refs? 

Get involved in local clubs more so players are more understanding in the laws of the game. 

The theory being that if you know what the laws are, then you are less likely  to break them in the first place. 

Or if you break them, then you will understand why the decision has gone against you are less likely to players losing the plot on the pitch, coaching staff being sent to the stand and fines for greetin' and blethering shite at post match interviews

But then again, that would all be just too sensible.

[kingjoey]

9 hours ago, accies1874 said:

If your technology isn't suitable for the people using it then maybe it needs binned. Considering the VAR apologists across the globe trot this line out since it came in, VAR should therefore be binned across the globe until it's suitable for the users (which would ideally, and likely, be never). 

You’ve got that round the wrong way. It’s the people using it who aren’t suitable for the technology. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the technology showing that the first Rangers penalty was a dive, it was the VAR who couldn’t actually see that.

[Saint Paddy]

3 hours ago, ropy said:

Every Industry puts their staff through training schemes and where appropriate helps them acquire professional qualifications, there is no reason why football clubs don’t put their players through referee training.  It would ensure that players understood the rules (laws), it would allow dialogue on the pitch to use a common language, intelligent questioning may result in the referee thinking again on a decision.  It’s just common sense.  If a byproduct of that exercise is that one or two players drift into refereeing then so be it.

As an amateur ref, I have said that if the coaches had done basic ref training,  my job would be so much easier .

If I turn up for a match, and the coach acknowledges they are/have been a ref, I instantly relax. 

It's 100% the coaches who think they know the laws of the game, but aren't right that cause all the problems.

If, at my level, every coach was obligated to take a ref's course, it would make my job easier

Ipso, if professional coaches had to take the same course,  by the time they become pundits, they MIGHT have some understanding of the laws and rules that are castigating.

[ropy]

6 hours ago, Saint Paddy said:

As an amateur ref, I have said that if the coaches had done basic ref training,  my job would be so much easier .

If I turn up for a match, and the coach acknowledges they are/have been a ref, I instantly relax. 

It's 100% the coaches who think they know the laws of the game, but aren't right that cause all the problems.

If, at my level, every coach was obligated to take a ref's course, it would make my job easier

Ipso, if professional coaches had to take the same course,  by the time they become pundits, they MIGHT have some understanding of the laws and rules that are castigating.

Yes,  my focus was on the players but it absolutely holds true for coaches.

[Saint Paddy]

1 hour ago, ropy said:

Yes,  my focus was on the players but it absolutely holds true for coaches.

Yes agreed.

 

But 99% of the time, once I've explained a decision to a player they are happy, and situation is diffused. 

Coaches whoever are on the sidelines going apoplectic, and that invariably bleeds onto the pitch.

 

What we are seeing in the professional game is an ignorance of the rules by coaches and pundits, which is magnified by over analysis of VAR decisions in studios.

This has lead to a vilification and distrust of officials, and a questioning of almost every decision.

 

Tldr= penalty to rangers