Russian invasion of Ukraine

[Theroadlesstravelled]

1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said:

Not keen on seatbelts apparently:

 

 

Why did he remove the seatbelt?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

3 minutes ago, Theroadlesstravelled said:

Why did he remove the seatbelt?

To get to the other side.

[Ron Aldo]

To get to the other side.

Of the windscreen?

[Zen Archer (Raconteur)]

4 minutes ago, Ron Aldo said:

47 minutes ago, Zen Archer (Raconteur) said:

To get to the other side.

Of the windscreen?

The non-corporeal realm.

[jagfox]

 

[jagfox]

 

[jagfox]

 

[TxRover]

This will be tricky, because it’s clear that the Russians delayed the pullback long enough to mine and booby trap the whole damn place, plus it’s likely they have registered all possible militarily useful positions on the west bank of the Dnipro with their artillery emplaced on the East bank. I’d expect slow Ukrainian advance in this area, and some very disturbing reports from the area.

[dirty dingus]

His car fell out a windae.

[LongTimeLurker]

10 hours ago, TxRover said:

This will be tricky, because it’s clear that the Russians delayed the pullback long enough to mine and booby trap the whole damn place, plus it’s likely they have registered all possible militarily useful positions on the west bank of the Dnipro with their artillery emplaced on the East bank. I’d expect slow Ukrainian advance in this area, and some very disturbing reports from the area.

but once that's over and done with:

Hopefully the following wasn't one of Joe Biden's senior citizen moments:

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by LongTimeLurker

[DeeTillEhDeh]

This will be tricky, because it’s clear that the Russians delayed the pullback long enough to mine and booby trap the whole damn place, plus it’s likely they have registered all possible militarily useful positions on the west bank of the Dnipro with their artillery emplaced on the East bank. I’d expect slow Ukrainian advance in this area, and some very disturbing reports from the area.

They almost certainly will need to clear Kherson street by street - that will slow any Ukrainian advance.

[renton]

10 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

10 hours ago, TxRover said:

This will be tricky, because it’s clear that the Russians delayed the pullback long enough to mine and booby trap the whole damn place, plus it’s likely they have registered all possible militarily useful positions on the west bank of the Dnipro with their artillery emplaced on the East bank. I’d expect slow Ukrainian advance in this area, and some very disturbing reports from the area.

They almost certainly will need to clear Kherson street by street - that will slow any Ukrainian advance.

I'm not sure they will. If they are close enough to get into Kherson they are close enough to cut off the garrison. So long as they are patient there is no need to flatten Kherson.

[Dev]

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS | Defense Express (defence-ua.com)

I have no idea what to make of this article but maybe some of you will make sense of it.

 

 

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS

Defense Express

ukr.defense.news@gmail.com

November 10, 2022

 

This way of hitting the rear russia’s occupying forces looks promising, but it currently exists only in advertising renders

The Polish Defence24 claims that the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab "in the near future" hopes to receive an order for a GLSDB-type rocket designed to fire from the M142 HIMARS and M270 systems.

The article does not indicate what kind of customer it should be. But the very concept of the GLSDB ammunition is interesting here, which is basically a "hybrid" of the M26 unguided rocket and the GBU-38 SDB-I guided aerial bomb.

For the first time, the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab presented its development under the index GLSDB in 2017. By design, this system should work like this; the M26 projectile launches the GBU-38 SDB-I aerial bomb to a certain height, which continues its flight and hits the target on a gentle trajectory.

The targeting of the aerial bomb during the final stage of the flight should be laser-guided. The developers claim that such a system is apparently capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 150km. Which is significantly higher than the indicator of 84km from GMLRS.

The unguided M26 projectile was chosen as the basis for the GLSDB because European countries have a high number of such missiles in stock, which were written off during the rejection from cluster weapons after the adoption of the "Oslo Convention" in 2008.

Or, it is quite possible that for all 5 years the GLSDB system has proved to be extremely impractical in real use. But the very vector of works on the topic of "how to compile a rocket and a guided aerial bomb" in order to increase the depth distance of damage to the enemy's rear looks quite promising.

 

 

[Dev]

25 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

10 hours ago, TxRover said:

This will be tricky, because it’s clear that the Russians delayed the pullback long enough to mine and booby trap the whole damn place, plus it’s likely they have registered all possible militarily useful positions on the west bank of the Dnipro with their artillery emplaced on the East bank. I’d expect slow Ukrainian advance in this area, and some very disturbing reports from the area.

They almost certainly will need to clear Kherson street by street - that will slow any Ukrainian advance.

Is Ukraine in a great rush to occupy Kherson in the normal way? The Russians do not seem likely to want to come back from the left bank any time soon and it would be difficult for them to do so anyway.

Surely the task would be for the Ukraine to gradually sort out Kherson and that part of Kherson Oblast which is on the right bank of the Dnipro. Meanwhile there's a bunch of Russians in Crimea and on the left bank of the Dnipro with , really, only one land route out of there - to the east. There's an opportunity to aim for the Sea of Azov via Melitopol and Berdyansk and cut off those Crimean and left bank of Dnipro Russians. The natural barrier of the Dnipro and the lake behind Khakhova provides a natural line for defence both ways but this favours Ukraine more than the Russians.

Defences at Mariupol and other locations in the south seem to be being beefed up at present so they're expecting some trouble from "up north"!

Edited November 10, 2022 by Dev
.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I'm not sure they will. If they are close enough to get into Kherson they are close enough to cut off the garrison. So long as they are patient there is no need to flatten Kherson.

Who said anything about flattening Kherson?

I'm talking about being patient in taking back Kherson because of the booby traps that will almost certainly have been left.

Even if Kherson is deserted it will take time to advance and neutralise devices.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Is Ukraine in a great rush to occupy Kherson in the normal way? The Russians do not seem likely to want to come back from the left bank any time soon and it would be difficult for them to do so anyway.
Surely the task would be for the Ukraine to gradually sort out Kherson and that part of Kherson Oblast which is on the right bank of the Dnipro. Meanwhile there's a bunch of Russians in Crimea and on the left bank of the Dnipro with , really, only one land route out of there - to the east. There's an opportunity to aim for the Sea of Azov via Melitopol and Berdyansk and cut off those Crimean and left bank of Dnipro Russians. The natural barrier of the Dnipro and the lake behind Khakhova provides a natural line for defence both ways but this favours Ukraine more than the Russians.
Defences at Mariupol and other locations in the south seem to be being beefed up at present so they're expecting some trouble from "up north"!

I don't think that what I've said contradicts that.

[renton]

25 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Who said anything about flattening Kherson?

I'm talking about being patient in taking back Kherson because of the booby traps that will almost certainly have been left.

Even if Kherson is deserted it will take time to advance and neutralise devices.

Apologies, I took "clear" to mean "fight for"

[renton]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS | Defense Express (defence-ua.com)

I have no idea what to make of this article but maybe some of you will make sense of it.

 

 

"Mixing" of a Missile And a Guided Aerial Bomb Makes It Possible to Strike As Far As 150km With HIMARS

Defense Express

ukr.defense.news@gmail.com

November 10, 2022

 

This way of hitting the rear russia’s occupying forces looks promising, but it currently exists only in advertising renders

The Polish Defence24 claims that the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab "in the near future" hopes to receive an order for a GLSDB-type rocket designed to fire from the M142 HIMARS and M270 systems.

The article does not indicate what kind of customer it should be. But the very concept of the GLSDB ammunition is interesting here, which is basically a "hybrid" of the M26 unguided rocket and the GBU-38 SDB-I guided aerial bomb.

For the first time, the consortium consisting of Boeing and Saab presented its development under the index GLSDB in 2017. By design, this system should work like this; the M26 projectile launches the GBU-38 SDB-I aerial bomb to a certain height, which continues its flight and hits the target on a gentle trajectory.

The targeting of the aerial bomb during the final stage of the flight should be laser-guided. The developers claim that such a system is apparently capable of hitting targets at a distance of up to 150km. Which is significantly higher than the indicator of 84km from GMLRS.

The unguided M26 projectile was chosen as the basis for the GLSDB because European countries have a high number of such missiles in stock, which were written off during the rejection from cluster weapons after the adoption of the "Oslo Convention" in 2008.

Or, it is quite possible that for all 5 years the GLSDB system has proved to be extremely impractical in real use. But the very vector of works on the topic of "how to compile a rocket and a guided aerial bomb" in order to increase the depth distance of damage to the enemy's rear looks quite promising.

 

 

Basically there is GMLRS-ER - this is the same as the standard guided round but extended out to 150km.

At the same time there is a large arsenal of the older unguided M30 rounds for the MLRS system. The proposal here is to take the SDB munition and bolt it onto the top of the old unguided munition.

This has two advantages: one, all your old unguided rockets are now guided and two, unlike the standard GPS guided munition the SDB (small diameter bomb) glide bomb has a seperate terminal guidance system that uses a combination of infra-Red, laser guided or millimetre wave radio which would allow it to hit pinpoint moving targets like Tanks.

Edited November 10, 2022 by renton

[LongTimeLurker]

1 hour ago, Dev said:

Is Ukraine in a great rush to occupy Kherson in the normal way? The Russians do not seem likely to want to come back from the left bank any time soon and it would be difficult for them to do so anyway....

There's probably some sort of secret deal. You let us retreat relatively unscathed and we won't flatten the place and shoot all the civilians that didn't evacuate when we asked them to sort of stuff. Something similar happened around Kharkiv in terms of the Russians suddenly leaving lots of places very easily they had no obvious need to at around the same time Izium didn't turn into the complete bloodbath that it could have done for them.

[TxRover]

6 hours ago, renton said:

Basically there is GMLRS-ER - this is the same as the standard guided round but extended out to 150km.

At the same time there is a large arsenal of the older unguided M30 rounds for the MLRS system. The proposal here is to take the SDB munition and bolt it onto the top of the old unguided munition.

This has two advantages: one, all your old unguided rockets are now guided and two, unlike the standard GPS guided munition the SDB (small diameter bomb) glide bomb has a seperate terminal guidance system that uses a combination of infra-Red, laser guided or millimetre wave radio which would allow it to hit pinpoint moving targets like Tanks.

Correct, but there is a red herring in the range listed.

The effective range of this combination is restricted by two things; the effective lift capacity of the old M30 rounds and the ability to provide terminal targeting data. What they are basically doing is using the old M30 rocket as an aircraft to launch the glide bombs from, the problem is ensuring, as people say, you get the biscuit in the basket. The laser designator for the weapon projects a cone shaped guidance envelope, and one whose shape and range varies based upon a number of considerations (angle of illumination, obstacles, etc).

This also means that the target has to be within visual sight of a targeting laser, this isn’t fire and forget like the HIMARS guided munitions are. Given the Ukrainian success in various other endeavours, this isn’t a massive hinderance, but it is a consideration. It doesn’t make it any less effective, especially for defensive purposes, but the article is a bit hyperbolic.

This particular weapon combination would be idea for Ukraine to use in response to a Russian attack. Basically a couple of HIMARS units sit deep behind the lines, when the Russians attack, you start lobbing a round into the air every minute, and someone at the front starts illuminating targets…as one is hit, you move to the next one, and the next warhead in the train redirects to the new target. It would decimate attacking armour if used well.

7 hours ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

Who said anything about flattening Kherson?

I'm talking about being patient in taking back Kherson because of the booby traps that will almost certainly have been left.

Even if Kherson is deserted it will take time to advance and neutralise devices.

100% this is what they have to do…and they HAVE to advance to prevent the Russians from leaving small observation teams in the area to help attack Ukrainian forces. Also, the Russians are reportedly redeploying half the withdrawn forces to other areas of SE Ukraine, so the Ukrainians will be at a manpower disadvantage until they can redeploy as we…but that has to wait until consolidation of Kherson. 

Edited November 10, 2022 by TxRover