Michael W Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 18 minutes ago, Wee Bully said: Paint me shocked. As i said before, Russia is really suffering now and hopefully the endgame is a little bit closer than it was. Yeah, that's the trump card played. Not sure when I expected it to come out, but there it is. Probably will have little to zero impact on Russia, who will just sell it to someone else instead. They will still get their money. For Europe, this is potentially disastrous and urgent action is needed. All about how Europe responds now. The same challenges we had are still there, namely price and the possibility of rationing in winter. But it's a pretty clear signal that Russian gas is pretty much gone now and there is really no choice but to wean the continent off of it. Either that or the sanctions come off, which there is no political will to do at the moment. Upscaling domestic production of electricity is now essential. This cannot be done immediately, but needs to be started immediately and nuclear is a big part of thatwhikst renewables are intriduced more. North Sea gas probably likewise too in the short term - It'll piss a lot of people off, but that's too bad. In the meantime, it will unfortunately be an expensive exercise in mitigating the high cost. Inflation needs to be controlled and the best way to counter the effect on consumers (and indeed businesses) is to stop them paying the inflated prices; that will required lots of capital to get into the position we need to be in. Quite a lot to get right, but the prize is energy security and the end of reliance of Russian gas. More importantly, the prospect of a continent's energy security being compromised by sanctions/disputes will go. It is a huge undertaking, though, and I am worried about it all coming together - so many things that can go wrong and jeopardise the whole thing. Not least the horrendous cost of doing it which will test resolve. It's probably just a coincidence, but slightly curious this closure comes the day the UK has another PM and a day after Germany announces a €65bn support package. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 There are a few other pipelines taking gas into Europe, oil ones too. Not sure which are still operating and at what capacity. Orban seemed pretty confident that Uncle Vlad would keep Hungary supplied, with refined petroleum as well as gas. These are the gas ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) UK and EU politicians have murdered huge numbers of their citizens for a US proxy war that doesn't have any upside for them. Anyone who thinks we are going to gracefully switch to nuclear and renewables is deluded. This is shock therapy, no one will vote for cutting their own consumption so it's been inflicted from above and the carnage it causes won't bother those at the top in the slightest. Edited September 5, 2022 by Detournement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 23 minutes ago, Michael W said: It's probably just a coincidence, but slightly curious this closure comes the day the UK has another PM and a day after Germany announces a €65bn support package. The gas was stopped because the G7 announced they are going to attempt to place a price cap on Russian oil exports. It's the first sanction that can potentially hurt Russia so it got a real response. The genuises who brought you the Iraq and Afghanistan wars and who have totally failed to tackle climate change are now gambling with all our livelihoods that they can somehow control international energy markets from a position of extreme weakness. The cleanshirt wankers on Twitter giving it "but actually you need insurance" deserve to freeze this winter but sadly won't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 02/09/2022 at 13:42, Bairnardo said: On 02/09/2022 at 13:14, DiegoDiego said: There are plenty on here more in the know than me, but surely China would have been #2, no? How do they do the ranking points these days? Can never keep up 1/ World Wars won 2/ Local Wars won 3/ Rebellions crushed 4/ Number of casualties 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 On 02/09/2022 at 13:49, welshbairn said: In terms of being able to destroy the planet with nukes Russia is still in the top 2, if they haven't rusted away. That's maybe even more dangerous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Jean King Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1/ World Wars won 2/ Local Wars won 3/ Rebellions crushed 4/ Number of casualties5) World cups ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Michael W said: ...It's probably just a coincidence, but slightly curious this closure comes the day the UK has another PM and a day after Germany announces a €65bn support package. The NATO meeting on Thursday to decide how to provide Ukraine with further military support is probably what it's mainly aimed at: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Michael W said: All about how Europe responds now. The same challenges we had are still there, namely price and the possibility of rationing in winter. But it's a pretty clear signal that Russian gas is pretty much gone now and there is really no choice but to wean the continent off of it. Either that or the sanctions come off, which there is no political will to do at the moment. As I've been saying for a while, it's easy to support Ukraine and stick a wee flag on your Twitter handle in the Spring and Summer, when the sun is shining and the impact of any intervention you support isn't felt by you. At the first sign of being felt (Gas prices shooting up) it still didn't matter, because if you shout about it long and loud enough the Government finally might step in to help you afford to keep the heating and lights on. What they can't do, though, is magic gas out of their arse - it will be interesting to see just how much public support there really is for continuing down the path towards domestic economic ruin in order to defend Ukraine if the gas does indeed now run out, and the heating and lighting goes with it. It will also be interesting to see at what point the press turn (as they eventually did with Covid restrictions) and push the narrative that peace is now the way forward. I think Wee Bully is being naïvely optimistic in thinking turning off the gas is a desperation move by Russia tbh. Edited September 5, 2022 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 Joe Biden who slurs his words and shakes hands with people who aren't there has made Russia and Europe (and maybe China soon) his bitches. It gives me hope that if I'm 80 and have late stage dementia I can get next level shit done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hillonearth Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: What they can't do, though, is magic gas out of their arse I recommend a primarily vegetarian diet. Job done. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiegoDiego Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 This guy was President of Estonia. And his nephew twice represented the country at eurovision. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: Joe Biden who slurs his words and shakes hands with people who aren't there has made Russia and Europe (and maybe China soon) his bitches. It gives me hope that if I'm 80 and have late stage dementia I can get next level shit done. Joe Biden* has made Europe his bitch. *Actually the mad Neocons who control his foreign policy. He just takes his 10% for the big guy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 1 hour ago, Todd_is_God said: ... What they can't do, though, is magic gas out of their arse ... ...maybe but the Dutch could ramp up production from the Groningen gas field and the Germans could reverse their decision to phase out nuclear power. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvio Tattiescone Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 The UK has a huge gas storage facility at Rough in the North Sea. It was closed a few years ago on H&S grounds. They're recommissioning it just now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 5 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: ...maybe but the Dutch could ramp up production from the Groningen gas field and the Germans could reverse their decision to phase out nuclear power. That article is from June, and states that production is being wound down rather than ramped up. I've seen plenty of "this could be an alternative" suggestions, but none so far seem to be doing anything, which I think is pretty telling as to what use they will be in the short-term. The West appears to have completely underestimated Russian economic resolve in the face of sanctions whilst simultaneously forgotten that, in the short-term, our economic stability relies on Russian gas far more than they rely on us buying it. All the recent chat about how accepting a difficult winter is the price we need to pay in order to stand up to Russian aggression is bluster - this scenario wasn't part of the plan and any EU leader who tells you they aren't panicking about whether they have made a massive mistake is lying. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawson Park Boy Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 I think Truss will fast track fracking as we have enormous reserves here in the UK. Read somewhere that we could be producing significant quantities within 6 months. Governments have been far too compliant to the green blob. Drill baby drill. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 3 minutes ago, Dawson Park Boy said: I think Truss will fast track fracking as we have enormous reserves here in the UK. Read somewhere that we could be producing significant quantities within 6 months. Governments have been far too compliant to the green blob. Drill baby drill. Better visit Blackpool whilst it's still there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1664861/russia-news-pensioner-shoots-down-su-35-fighter-jet-ukraine-war-latest/amp A wee bit of targeted fake news to cheer up soon to be frozen Express readers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted September 5, 2022 Share Posted September 5, 2022 6 minutes ago, Detournement said: https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1664861/russia-news-pensioner-shoots-down-su-35-fighter-jet-ukraine-war-latest/amp A wee bit of targeted fake news to cheer up soon to be frozen Express readers. I mean that is absolutely ludicrous. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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