ICTChris Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 I've seen these snippets shared on social media today, on the efficacy of tactical nuclear weapons on the battlefield From Colin Powell's autobiography From a paper assessing their potential impact in the India-Pakistan conflict 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/13/saudi-arabia-putin-prince-mohammed Fresh off calling for a full-scale war of regime change in Russia and Iran as well as fighting China over Taiwan this year alone, The Guardian's 'senior' foreign affairs commentator/armchair Simon 'psycho' Tidsall now wants to break ties with the Saudis for having the temerity to have an independent foreign and economic policy to the US. It's a wonder that they are all aligning with each other to oppose Western pressure! This is a good insight into the truly deluded alternative universe that Twitter flag-handle liberals are busy constructing in their heads. This will end in utter disaster unless the feedback loop of their moral absolutism is somehow wound in. Perhaps Musk taking over and ruining their wee toy would be an inadvertent act for global peace. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 11 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Do you honestly think that Zelenskyy would refuse a peace deal because Bojo told him not to? Err, yes, because by doing so he was instead flooded with even more weaponry to help him fight, and without NATO support Ukraine were fucked. Whilst on the back foot in the early days the Ukrainian position was very different to what it was now as Russia was still advancing. He spent most of his time begging for NATO to implement a no-fly zone, remember. I don't think BJ made any secret of the fact he was against a peace deal either. According to Ukrainska Pravda sources close to Zelenskyy, the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom Boris Johnson, who appeared in the capital almost without warning, brought two simple messages. The first is that Putin is a war criminal, he should be pressured, not negotiated with. And the second is that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, they [the UK and US] are not. Johnson’s position was that the collective West, which back in February had suggested Zelenskyy should surrender and flee, now felt that Putin was not really as powerful as they had previously imagined, and that here was a chance to “press him.” It's been a long, long time since any of this was about finding a mutually acceptable way for both sides to be content to end the war, and is now fully focused on getting rid of Putin. Macron talks earlier about wanting to avoid a world war. I believe the sentiment, but the actions of NATO appear somewhat at odds with that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 Like everything to do with this, it depends on how you evaluate the information from both sides. Offering Crimea to a Putin determined to annex Odessa would be pointless. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 8 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Like everything to do with this, it depends on how you evaluate the information from both sides. Offering Crimea to a Putin determined to annex Odessa would be pointless. https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/exclusive-war-began-putin-rejected-ukraine-peace-deal-recommended-by-his-aide-2022-09-14/ What point are you trying to make here? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, Dev said: There's no easy answer to dealing with Russia and its' long term threat to the western way of life. The Russians were in Switzerland under Suvorov in the 1790s. Tsar Alexander got to Paris as part of the coalition twenty years later. Stalin's Red Army single-handedly crushed the Nazi centre of power and cut Germany in two for 45 years. Putin is, err, fighting over lands that 99% of people in the West would have wrongly described as 'Russia' a generation ago - several hundred miles eastward. The idea that Russia poses any long-term conventional or military threat to the West in this century is therefore laughable. It is quite clearly a massively declining power that - unless a new super-resource gets unearthed in the Urals or Russian Arctic alone - will continue to decline regardless of what Putin or anyone else does. The only risk to the world is a bunch of deluded liberal interventionists viewing every single situation as the fucking Munich Crisis and starting an all-out war with the one weapon that Russia has got in spades. It can and should be left isolated but unthreatened. That is how you safely deal with a declining great power. Edited October 13, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: What point are you trying to make here? If a colonial power is trying to regain its empire by invading its neighbours, it's best not to concede an inch until its ambitions become more modest, if you have the power to make that happen. Surrendering Crimea should be left as a bauble for serious peace negotiations when Russia tries to get out of the hole they've jumped into, entirely of their own volition. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
renton Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 If Ukraine could get the February borders, and surrender Crimea to Russia in exchange for accession to the EU and NATO that would likely be a good deal fro Ukraine. Give Russia an out by letting them keep Crimea, allow sanctions to ease off as Russian conventional military would likely be pretty broken for at least a decade. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 13 minutes ago, welshbairn said: If a colonial power is trying to regain its empire by invading its neighbours, it's best not to concede an inch until its ambitions become more modest, if you have the power to make that happen. Surrendering Crimea should be left as a bauble for serious peace negotiations when Russia tries to get out of the hole they've jumped into, entirely of their own volition. I agree with the principle of what you are saying, but I don't agree with who you appear to be suggesting is in charge of making that decision. If Zelenskyy was prepared to make a deal back in April then it was his and his alone's decision to make. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 19 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said: I agree with the principle of what you are saying, but I don't agree with who you appear to be suggesting is in charge of making that decision. If Zelenskyy was prepared to make a deal back in April then it was his and his alone's decision to make. We agree on that then, but Putin didn't seem to have any deal on offer other than outright surrender, arrest of the 'nazi' leaders of Ukraine, demilitarisation and annexation of vast swathes of territory from Donbas to Moldova, rendering Ukraine unviable as a functioning state. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 12 minutes ago, welshbairn said: We agree on that then, but Putin didn't seem to have any deal on offer other than outright surrender, arrest of the 'nazi' leaders of Ukraine, demilitarisation and annexation of vast swathes of territory from Donbas to Moldova, rendering Ukraine unviable as a functioning state. Given that Zelenskyy, as Ukrainian leader, was prepared to accept it this seems unlikely to have been the deal on the table. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 7 hours ago, TxRover said: You seem to be the one jumping to nukes. Every American statement has been clear that they have capable enough conventional weapons to destroy the Black Sea Fleet WITHOUT using nukes. The “planted leaks” you mention were disproven. The good old US of A. Wouldn't it be beautiful if the US and Russia could just f**k right off the world stage right now. The pair of them together. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmic Joe Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dev Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, virginton said: The Russians were in Switzerland under Suvorov in the 1790s. Tsar Alexander got to Paris as part of the coalition twenty years later. Stalin's Red Army single-handedly crushed the Nazi centre of power and cut Germany in two for 45 years. Putin is, err, fighting over lands that 99% of people in the West would have wrongly described as 'Russia' a generation ago - several hundred miles eastward. The idea that Russia poses any long-term conventional or military threat to the West in this century is therefore laughable. It is quite clearly a massively declining power that - unless a new super-resource gets unearthed in the Urals or Russian Arctic alone - will continue to decline regardless of what Putin or anyone else does. The only risk to the world is a bunch of deluded liberal interventionists viewing every single situation as the fucking Munich Crisis and starting an all-out war with the one weapon that Russia has got in spades. It can and should be left isolated but unthreatened. That is how you safely deal with a declining great power. Paras 2 and 4. I wish that you were correct but it is necessary to take a look at the Putin track record and the long history of Russian/Soviet genocidal tendencies (IMO) over about the last 100 years and figure out if your approach is worth the obvious risk. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alta-pete Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 42 minutes ago, Cosmic Joe said: The good old US of A. Wouldn't it be beautiful if the US and Russia could just f**k right off the world stage right now. The pair of them together. something something arse cheeks. We'll all be better off if they'd just go. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, Cosmic Joe said: The good old US of A. Wouldn't it be beautiful if the US and Russia could just f**k right off the world stage right now. The pair of them together. Like the Old Firm...get tae f**k, gies aw peace...!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkySuperSub Posted October 13, 2022 Share Posted October 13, 2022 1 hour ago, alta-pete said: something something arse cheeks. We'll all be better off if they'd just go. Should've read the whole thread before I posted there! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dev said: Paras 2 and 4. I wish that you were correct but it is necessary to take a look at the Putin track record and the long history of Russian/Soviet genocidal tendencies (IMO) over about the last 100 years and figure out if your approach is worth the obvious risk. It's really not necessary because Russia is incapable of projecting any meaningful power beyond the post-Soviet space. The economics, demographics and therefore the conventional military realities cannot be substantially changed by Putin or any other statesman. Your 'genocidal tendencies' claim is just utter pish I'm afraid. And even if we did for some bizarre reason accept that peoples have an inherited trait for genocide - well there's a fucking enormous cuckoo in the middle of the NATO alliance and the EU then. You might want to check up on Ukrainian nationalism's track record while you're at it. Edited October 14, 2022 by vikingTON 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 Article about Russian elite opinions and the war and why an elite split is unlikely in Russia. https://ridl.io/there-will-be-no-elite-split/ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted October 14, 2022 Share Posted October 14, 2022 The good old US of A. Wouldn't it be beautiful if the US and Russia could just f**k right off the world stage right now. The pair of them together. A bit like the Old Firm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.