Left Back Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 2 minutes ago, effeffsee_the2nd said: do heat pumps actually reduce your bills by much? or does it depend on the heat source you already have ie all electric in which case you'd be aswell burning £20 notes for heat You get approximately 3 kWh (maybe 3.5 kWh) of heat out for every kWh of electricity you put in so if you're paying about 30p per kWh for electricity it's costing you about 8.5p-10p per kWh to run a heat pump. Mains gas is approximately 7p per kWh at the moment. If you're currently all electric and burning money you're pretty much guaranteed to be cheaper. Anything else then a heat pump looks more expensive. Lots of other things can affect it of course. Seasonal variations change the efficiency of the heat pump. How much you're paying for oil or LPG can vary massively (a lot more than mains gas) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 9 hours ago, Zetterlund said: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68133751 Heat pumps are in the news again this morning, with Audit Scotland saying numbers are well short of targets. 5000 fitted last year out of a target of 25,000, with the target rising to 200,000 by 2030. As I've said before on here I fit heat pumps for a living and have been doing so since 2007. I worked for a company for over 15 years before starting my own business just over a year ago. The thing about these government targets is, they're held back by a lack of installers while they simultaneously make it harder to become an installer. I myself will become 'unqualified' later this year due to new bits of paper they've invented since I started my business, which hilariously means I'll likely end up going back to the company I left to be re-trained by the guy I trained 10 years ago. I'll also need to go to college and sit in a classroom with people who have never seen a heat pump in their lives., and pay thousands while losing a week of work to do a course in Birmingham. In many ways this just sums up government incompetence. It's seriously making me reconsider this as a career and sometimes the thought of opening a wee shop or something is quite appealing (although no doubt that'd be riddled with red tape too). I enjoyed the work before the government essentially took over the industry but now I feel like I'll barely be getting any work done as staying 'compliant' is more important than being competent at the job. It’s not the regulation to ensure competence that’s the issue, it’s how they implement that assurance. Your case is a study on the complete stupidity that can occur when regulations are written with limited flexibility and by people with little to no actual knowledge of the systems they are regulating. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 They really need to bin the running costs argument for heat pumps unless its replacing electric heating. Air to air heat pumps are much more efficient than air to water, and you could argue they'd save money over most alternatives, but very few of this type of system are being fitted as government funding usually doesn't apply. The green/net zero drive is literally 'at any cost', and not just in the context of money. The current, very efficient and safe refrigerants are being replaced by propane and (ironically) CO2, which runs at pressures up to 2000psi, because they have a lower global warming potential. So people may have a potential bomb bolted to their house, but at least it's better for the environment if it springs a leak. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
parsforlife Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I looked into a heat pump when I replaced my gas boiler a couple of years ago, I was probably one of those on the missed targets, It took about 30 seconds to make my mind up, the cost differences are absolutely astounding, you're not going to convince anyone who doesn't already have the required piping and installation to even consider it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 Feel like they should be targeting heat pumps to rural houses with old school oil central heating or electric storage systems. Together with new builds it would help get enough demand going to get some competition going. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Todd_is_God Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 (edited) 36 minutes ago, 101 said: Feel like they should be targeting heat pumps to rural houses with old school oil central heating or electric storage systems. Together with new builds it would help get enough demand going to get some competition going. That would require some thought and consideration, though. The SG don’t do that - they pick good sounding targets out of thin air and worry about the mechanism or feasibility later. In the UK, though, the majority of heating systems use mains gas. So until the Merit Order is removed and/or heat pumps become more efficient it will never be cheaper to heat a home with a heat pump than with gas. “Spend a fortune and increase your energy bill for no reason” isn’t exactly a winning marketing slogan. Edited February 2 by Todd_is_God 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TxRover Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 19 hours ago, Zetterlund said: They really need to bin the running costs argument for heat pumps unless its replacing electric heating. Air to air heat pumps are much more efficient than air to water, and you could argue they'd save money over most alternatives, but very few of this type of system are being fitted as government funding usually doesn't apply. The green/net zero drive is literally 'at any cost', and not just in the context of money. The current, very efficient and safe refrigerants are being replaced by propane and (ironically) CO2, which runs at pressures up to 2000psi, because they have a lower global warming potential. So people may have a potential bomb bolted to their house, but at least it's better for the environment if it springs a leak. I assume the standard air-to-air heat pump scenario is a forced air system, is there any reasonable percentage of UK housing that could utilise such at any reasonable cost? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zetterlund Posted February 2 Share Posted February 2 3 hours ago, TxRover said: I assume the standard air-to-air heat pump scenario is a forced air system, is there any reasonable percentage of UK housing that could utilise such at any reasonable cost? For residential heating it's 99% mini/multisplit, or ductless as I believe you call it over there. I've only ever come across one forced air heating system in a house, and that was to rip it out as it didn't work properly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PB1994 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Are the gas/electricity rates expected to be dropping anytime soon? Currently on a flexi rate for both at 28.48p for Electricity and 7.37 for gas, plus the usual standing charges. Can get a fixed deal knocking of 3p per unit for Electricity and 1p for Gas for the next 12 months. Ive got next to no clue about the prices so not sure if it is worth fixing for the next year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbykdy Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 47 minutes ago, PB1994 said: Are the gas/electricity rates expected to be dropping anytime soon? Currently on a flexi rate for both at 28.48p for Electricity and 7.37 for gas, plus the usual standing charges. Can get a fixed deal knocking of 3p per unit for Electricity and 1p for Gas for the next 12 months. Ive got next to no clue about the prices so not sure if it is worth fixing for the next year. Prices went up in January but are expected to drop again in April. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 59 minutes ago, PB1994 said: Are the gas/electricity rates expected to be dropping anytime soon? Currently on a flexi rate for both at 28.48p for Electricity and 7.37 for gas, plus the usual standing charges. Can get a fixed deal knocking of 3p per unit for Electricity and 1p for Gas for the next 12 months. Ive got next to no clue about the prices so not sure if it is worth fixing for the next year. This is from about 6 weeks ago. https://www.cornwall-insight.com/press/price-cap-predicted-to-fall-by-14-in-april/ The above doesn't show regional variations but it's likely that the price cap will be cheaper for you. Of course if you want certainty for 12 months then lock in. In the current climate companies aren't trying to lock you in to get you on a good deal. They're trying to lock you in above where they think the price cap is going because it's generally falling. In a normal market when they're locking you in they're hedging it so they aren't losing anyway when prices would typically be rising. When you think about energy prices always look at it first from a "how are these thieving c***s trying to shaft me?" standpoint and you won't be far wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross. Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Gas bill paid today, about 1/3 of what it was this time last year despite using a fair bit more. Still much higher than expected when we bought the place. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caledonian1 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 On 02/02/2024 at 08:35, 101 said: Feel like they should be targeting heat pumps to rural houses with old school oil central heating or electric storage systems. Together with new builds it would help get enough demand going to get some competition going. I put one in three years ago and very happy with it. The Scot Gov 10 year interest free loan of £10k and seven years worth of RHI payments amounting to around £2000 per year convinced me that it was a good idea to install a completely new system with new piping and radiators. I had no central heating before and built an extension which made the house about twice the size of the original. It definitely works better in the three year old part of the house compared to the 148 year old part as the insulation is far superior. At weekend I tend to put on my woodburner if I want the room to be toasty. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingscot Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 20 hours ago, PB1994 said: Are the gas/electricity rates expected to be dropping anytime soon? Currently on a flexi rate for both at 28.48p for Electricity and 7.37 for gas, plus the usual standing charges. Can get a fixed deal knocking of 3p per unit for Electricity and 1p for Gas for the next 12 months. Ive got next to no clue about the prices so not sure if it is worth fixing for the next year. Octopus Tracker tariff I am on is today 14.47p for electricity and 3.86p for gas. Wholesale prices have generally been tracking well lower than the price cap for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salt n Vinegar Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 I'm not opposed to things like heat pumps and solar panels but not at a cost over and above current costs. Mrs Salt and Vinegar and my good self are in our 60s and in reasonable health. IF we could look at a payback period of, say, 5 years we'd consider going ahead but I've heard nothing to suggest anything close to that. Anyone got info to the contrary? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Left Back Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 1 minute ago, Salt n Vinegar said: I'm not opposed to things like heat pumps and solar panels but not at a cost over and above current costs. Mrs Salt and Vinegar and my good self are in our 60s and in reasonable health. IF we could look at a payback period of, say, 5 years we'd consider going ahead but I've heard nothing to suggest anything close to that. Anyone got info to the contrary? Doubt you'd get it down to 5 years. When I put in solar in my current house about 3 years ago I was looking at something like 7-9 years (can't remember the details as it was a while ago). Should last 20 years so worth it, especially with the way electricity prices went so got lucky there and it will have brought the payback period down beyond my initial calculation. I've looked at battery storage many times over the last few years and it's only now it's reached a tipping point where I'm going to invest in them. I can zero out my electricity bill and actually make money from my electricity provider for about 15 years with the investment. Payback period about 8 years just on the batteries in isolation. Something I should factor in but never get round to is running two electric cars in that. If I did factor in my petrol saving that would bring the payback period down a bit further. A combination of solar, batteries, electric cars and a good electricity tariff (Octopus) will have done, and continue to, save me a fortune but the upfront investment isn't cheap and you have to be patient. Some things you can get grants/interest free loans for and some you can't. I always look at these things purely from a financial perspective and if the costs don't stack up I'm not doing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beefybake Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 (edited) 2 hours ago, flyingscot said: Octopus Tracker tariff I am on is today 14.47p for electricity and 3.86p for gas. Wholesale prices have generally been tracking well lower than the price cap for a while. Some useful info here.... ( links to Northern Scotland stats, there's a drop down menu for the other regions by clicking on Tracker at top of page. ) https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-tracker-northern-scotland/. The various caveats/warnings about the Tracker tariff are listed on the Octopus site.... https://octopus.energy/smart/tracker/. Edited February 6 by beefybake 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jord85 Posted February 6 Share Posted February 6 2 hours ago, flyingscot said: Octopus Tracker tariff I am on is today 14.47p for electricity and 3.86p for gas. Wholesale prices have generally been tracking well lower than the price cap for a while. I’m on octopus flexible and I’m 28.48p for electric and 7.37p for gas. With a 57p standing charge per day for electric and 28p standing charge for gas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leith Green Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Anti Catholic conspiracy imvho 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alert Mongoose Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Is anyone able to translate this from the BBC as I'm struggling with the logic. Ofgem said energy prices have fallen to the lowest level since Russia's invasion of the Ukraine in February 2022. It said this "caused a further spike in an already turbulent wholesale energy market, driving up costs for suppliers and ultimately customers". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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