Energy Prices

[Dons_1988]

Daft question time - when my energy company is giving me a suggested D/D now to keep me ticking over through winter, is it estimating under the current price cap? I’m assuming it is as they have no data to make an estimate into the next increase.

Currently it would suggest I’m overpaying but no point reducing that if it’s just going up. 

[bobbykdy]

32 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Daft question time - when my energy company is giving me a suggested D/D now to keep me ticking over through winter, is it estimating under the current price cap? I’m assuming it is as they have no data to make an estimate into the next increase.

Currently it would suggest I’m overpaying but no point reducing that if it’s just going up. 

They should base it on your historical usage and  the October /January price cap (if/when known) but that doesn't seem to be the case going by some of the astronomical DDs folk are claiming to be asked for even before the latest increase kicks in. If you are able you should really sit down and try to calculate this out yourself, even roughly, don't trust you energy supplier not to be using you as an interest free loan, especially if every penny is needed just now.

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, bobbykdy said:

They should base it on your historical usage and  the October /January price cap (if/when known) but that doesn't seem to be the case going by some of the astronomical DDs folk are claiming to be asked for even before the latest increase kicks in. If you are able you should really sit down and try to calculate this out yourself, even roughly, don't trust you energy supplier not to be using you as an interest free loan, especially if every penny is needed just now.

I but that’s the problem, I can work out my usage x current price per unit but if I don’t know what the price per unit is going to be in October then January then I can’t make a forecast for winter. 

And I definitely don’t trust Scottish power, the lack of information given with the ‘suggested’ direct debit is more than a bit shady. 

[bobbykdy]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

I but that’s the problem, I can work out my usage x current price per unit but if I don’t know what the price per unit is going to be in October then January then I can’t make a forecast for winter. 

And I definitely don’t trust Scottish power, the lack of information given with the ‘suggested’ direct debit is more than a bit shady. 

All you can do is work it out based on what the October cap is said to be at the moment and update your figures if that cap changes in that case, set your next 3 months debits based on your best calculation and if you ultra cautious put a wee bit on top. Then revisit in January with new figure(s).

[Todd_is_God]

6 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

I but that’s the problem, I can work out my usage x current price per unit but if I don’t know what the price per unit is going to be in October then January then I can’t make a forecast for winter. 

And I definitely don’t trust Scottish power, the lack of information given with the ‘suggested’ direct debit is more than a bit shady. 

I've twice posted a document in this thread indicating the current projected SC and Unit Price for the next 15 months.

I expect these will be updated again tomorrow, mind, but they should give you a bit of an idea.

This, though, exemplifies the problematic dithering by the Government. Assuming they are actually going to do something, it would be extremely helpful to know if this is going to be in the form of a grant, a tax cut, or a cap freeze.

If it's the former, a fix ASAP might be a good idea. If it's the latter, then it would be a massive mistake. And vice versa.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Todd_is_God

[Dons_1988]

29 minutes ago, Todd_is_God said:

I've twice posted a document in this thread indicating the current projected SC and Unit Price for the next 15 months.

I expect these will be updated again tomorrow, mind, but they should give you a bit of an idea.

This, though, exemplifies the problematic dithering by the Government. Assuming they are actually going to do something, it would be extremely helpful to know if this is going to be in the form of a grant, a tax cut, or a cap freeze.

If it's the former, a fix ASAP might be a good idea. If it's the latter, then it would be a massive mistake. And vice versa.

Apologies, I have to confess I’ve not read the full thread out of laziness. I’ll spend some time doing a forecast. 

[Todd_is_God]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Apologies, I have to confess I’ve not read the full thread out of laziness. I’ll spend some time doing a forecast. 

It wasn't meant as a dig - more a guide as to where you could find it!

[SuperSaints1877]

3 hours ago, Empty It said:

I also don't understand the utter disdain for smart meters.

I don’t understand the need for them unless you are physically disabled, blind or elderly as reading a meter and submitting them online takes 5 minutes once a month.

Surely most people understand that repeatedly boiling kettles to fill a bath takes more energy than using a combi boiler.

Low energy lightbulbs should be a standard in everyone’s houses by now.

Reduce heating bills by putting on a jumper and shut open doors and windows in winter. 

Hang washing out to dry outside rather than use a tumble dryer. 

Don’t leave electrical items unnecessarily on standby.

Now unless you meet the criteria of elderly, physically disabled or blind can anyone provide good reasons to install a smart meter?
 

Edited August 14, 2022 by SuperSaints1877

[Left Back]

22 minutes ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I don’t understand the need for them unless you are physically disabled, blind or elderly as reading a meter and submitting them online takes 5 minutes once a month.

Surely most people understand that repeatedly boiling kettles to fill a bath takes more energy than using a combi boiler.

Low energy lightbulbs should be a standard in everyone’s houses by now.

Reduce heating bills by putting on a jumper and shut open doors and windows in winter. 

Hang washing out to dry outside rather than use a tumble dryer. 

Don’t leave electrical items unnecessarily on standby.

Now unless you meet the criteria of elderly, physically disabled or blind can anyone provide good reasons to install a smart meter?
 

You need one to get a SEG payment if you have solar panels.

You need one to access some tariffs that can be cheaper.

[SuperSaints1877]

29 minutes ago, Left Back said:

You need one to get a SEG payment if you have solar panels.

You need one to access some tariffs that can be cheaper.

I get those reasons. But most houses in Scotland don’t have solar.

I believe it’s in the interests of the suppliers to have active monitoring in place for consumer control moving forward.

I do believe that many suppliers will “force” consumers into the installation of these devices as part of a contract.

Why else would they deploy £400 of kit and install cost free of charge?

Call me a suspicious cynical cnut. But I don’t trust these b*****ds.

[Left Back]

1 hour ago, SuperSaints1877 said:

I get those reasons. But most houses in Scotland don’t have solar.

I believe it’s in the interests of the suppliers to have active monitoring in place for consumer control moving forward.

I do believe that many suppliers will “force” consumers into the installation of these devices as part of a contract.

Why else would they deploy £400 of kit and install cost free of charge?

Call me a suspicious cynical cnut. But I don’t trust these b*****ds.

They aren’t installing it FoC.  You might not be handing over £400 when one is installed but part of everyones bill is paying for smart meters in the same way that part of everyones bill is paying for standard meters.

[Jacksgranda]

5 hours ago, oaksoft said:

£48 billion profit in just 3 months.

f**k.

Me.

Saudi Aramco: Oil giant tops own record with $48.4bn quarterly profit - BBC News

Sure beats writing feminist porn scripts, eh?

[doulikefish]

41 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Sure beats writing feminist porn scripts, eh?

Saudi works on $8 a Barrel,anything over that is profit 

Edited August 14, 2022 by doulikefish

[Todd_is_God]

Slight decrease on the latest estimates. But at £1 per month it's hardly worth mentioning.

Auxilione Price Cap Daily 20220812.pdf

[craigkillie]

Smart meters allow suppliers to better predict demand, helping to shape energy infrastructure to become more reliable and efficient. According to the National Infrastructure Commission a complete smart energy grid could save the nation 8 billion pounds each year

And this is the big concern right here. This isn't a benefit to me but represents an enormous risk. We are sleep-walking into peak charges for energy. And for no obvious benefit to anyone other than the energy companies themselves.

Are there not already tarrifs which have different peak and non-peak usage rates?

[Left Back]

3 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

 

 

 

Are there not already tarrifs which have different peak and non-peak usage rates?

 

 

Yes.  They’ve been around for years. Economy 7 and the like.  Now they’re called Time of Use tariffs and some of them integrate with smart devices such as cars and batteries to import electricity when it’s cheapest.

[Bairnardo]

Yes.  They’ve been around for years. Economy 7 and the like.  Now they’re called Time of Use tariffs and some of them integrate with smart devices such as cars and batteries to import electricity when it’s cheapest.

These tariffs benefit the energy suppliers too seemingly. It's good for grid balance to have people hoovering it up at night aswell as during peak times.

[GAD]

To be fair, Smart meters are being pushed by the government more than the suppliers. The suppliers have government targets to hit to get these meters in and could face fines if they don't. That's why they had the whole issue early on with meters that were only "smart" if you stayed with the company that installed it, as the infrastructure for the proper meters wasn't in place, but the govt wanted them going in anyway. I'm pretty sure most suppliers would have happily skipped this expense and installed smart meters as and when needed, rather than spending millions replacing adequate "dumb" meters before it was necessary.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

25 minutes ago, Left Back said:

Yes.  They’ve been around for years. Economy 7 and the like.  Now they’re called Time of Use tariffs and some of them integrate with smart devices such as cars and batteries to import electricity when it’s cheapest.

These tariffs benefit the energy suppliers too seemingly. It's good for grid balance to have people hoovering it up at night aswell as during peak times.

Yep.  Win/win.  Of course the smart tariffs require you to have a smart meter so you can be billed accurately.

My house had a smart meter when I moved in so I didn't have a choice.  I don't see the downside though.  I've used the ToU tariffs for a good chunk of the last couple of years and it's saved me around three hundred quid I reckon.  Its no issue for us to run the washing machine/tumble dryer/dishwasher etc. overnight (if it isn't sunny and we can't run them using solar) and charging the car at a cheap overnight rate is a no brainer.  I'll be getting my overnight electricity at what I reckon will be less than 1/7th of the price cap rate according to the latest estimate @Todd_is_God posted earlier which I wouldn't be able to do without a smart meter.

[Left Back]

4 minutes ago, oaksoft said:

 

I think you need storage though don't you?

And if you don't have a boiler system setup for that, I don't know how it would work.

The old economy 7 used storage heaters to store the energy.

If you have an electric car or solar PV batteries then you have storage.

You don't necessarily have to have storage to benefit from ToU tariffs.  We used to be on a tariff called agile Octopus which changed your billing rate every 30 minutes.  Obviously the peak times were usually between about 7 and 8:30 AM but more so between 4 and 7pm.  At the time a typical kWh of electricity would be about 17p.  On that tariff the rate was capped at 35p but only really got there for an hour or two sometime between 4 and 7pm.  For the rest of the day it would be about 10p and overnight even lower.  sometimes you actually got paid to import energy from the grid when there was surplus.  As long as you avoided using electricity between 4 and 7 you could make a saving.  Not practical for families where you're cooking for kids etc. during that time but was fine for us with just 2 adults in the household.

In addition  the rate you got for exporting varied according to the import price so there was an additional benefit that we got increased SEG payments.