Darvel FC Thread

[Shanner]

51 minutes ago, Wos-observer said:

Having acknowledged this has taken place, surely if you know Auchinleck talbot were filming the game then I am assuming you have been in contact with them to obtain full footage which might show the culprit.  
 

A quiet word for something like this is disgusting.  Bans should be handed out without doubt.  I think it would also be appropriate of the club to put out an apology on the matter and condemn the behaviour of the darvel fans involved.   
 

The quiet word simply isn’t good enough.  The issue needs addressed 

For grown adults a 1 strike rule for this shit should apply, no ifs, no buts. 

With young yins, it's possible that they aren't yet irredeemable arseholes so a softer, more conciliatory approach is probably more appropriate so I'd say Darvel are doing the right thing on this one and only issue. 

[Wile E Coyote]

Was a "quiet word" suitable when Darvel ran to a national newspaper with fabricated allegations of racism against Talbot fans

[FHill]

47 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said:

Was a "quiet word" suitable when Darvel ran to a national newspaper with fabricated allegations of racism against Talbot fans

Be careful on the use of "suitable" and "fabricated allegations" because I have seen the report from the time and I would concentrate on your own club. Nobody is perfect but I have the emails & evidence from that time and NO-ONE covers themselves in glory from either side.

[Shanner]

1 minute ago, FHill said:

Be careful on the use of "suitable" and "fabricated allegations" because I have seen the report from the time and I would concentrate on your own club. Nobody is perfect but I have the emails & evidence from that time and NO-ONE covers themselves in glory from either side.

Ah here we go. Darvel at their finest. 

[FHill]

 

Just now, Shanner said:

Ah here we go. Darvel at their finest. 

 Think you will find I said NO-ONE covers themselves in glory. No deflection and I even reported our fans from the second leg for the incident with the bus in the car park because, again, that is unacceptable. 

[Wile E Coyote]

6 minutes ago, FHill said:

Be careful on the use of "suitable" and "fabricated allegations" because I have seen the report from the time and I would concentrate on your own club. Nobody is perfect but I have the emails & evidence from that time and NO-ONE covers themselves in glory from either side.

I am quite comfortable calling them fabricated allegations.

 

[Shanner]

Just now, FHill said:

 

 Think you will find I said NO-ONE covers themselves in glory. No deflection and I even reported our fans from the second leg for the incident with the bus in the car park because, again, that is unacceptable. 

We all know that Darvel went squealing to the press because your team were unceremoniously thrashed. The allegation of racism that day was utterly laughable.

Whataboutery won't deflect from what Darvel fans were doing last night, stop making your team look like an even bigger basket case than we already know it to be. 

As pointed out by the other poster, let's see if you are so horrified by this sort of thing that you'll self report to your pals at the Daily Record and take your medicine. Can't see it somehow. 

[FHill]

Just now, Shanner said:

We all know that Darvel went squealing to the press because your team were unceremoniously thrashed. The allegation of racism that day was utterly laughable.

Whataboutery won't deflect from what Darvel fans were doing last night, stop making your team look like an even bigger basket case than we already know it to be. 

As pointed out by the other poster, let's see if you are so horrified by this sort of thing that you'll self report to your pals at the Daily Record and take your medicine. Can't see it somehow. 

We will have to disagree. I prefer going to the governing bodies than the press but that is just me. Wasn't there, can't comment. But I have seen the evidence.

I'm not going to win this one but I have said I have already reported it and also reported the incident after the second leg. I think that is being fair. I don't do trial by social media or press. I just like to make sure the facts are there that I know. After that I can't change opinions - hence the reason I have left. If you have also seen the evidence and we reach different conclusions fair enough. I would rather get past the whole Darvel v Talbot war myself as it's quite boring. I believe some of our committee had an enjoyable and friendly night at yours on the first leg and while nobody turned up for hospitality at the second leg, I believe your committee also had a reciprocal enjoyable night last night. Despite the incident. That's the way it should be. There is a line. But just my opinion.

 

[Shanner]

2 minutes ago, FHill said:

We will have to disagree. I prefer going to the governing bodies than the press but that is just me. Wasn't there, can't comment. But I have seen the evidence.

I'm not going to win this one but I have said I have already reported it and also reported the incident after the second leg. I think that is being fair. I don't do trial by social media or press. I just like to make sure the facts are there that I know. After that I can't change opinions - hence the reason I have left. If you have also seen the evidence and we reach different conclusions fair enough. I would rather get past the whole Darvel v Talbot war myself as it's quite boring. I believe some of our committee had an enjoyable and friendly night at yours on the first leg and while nobody turned up for hospitality at the second leg, I believe your committee also had a reciprocal enjoyable night last night. Despite the incident. That's the way it should be. There is a line. But just my opinion.

 

weasel words. 

[FHill]

Back on to Darvel business.

Now onto the manager. While I was not there at the appointment, not at the end, I do not know the full situation and would not comment or cast aspersions onto anyone. Everyone fights for their own department and everyone has the right to do so. It should also be added that there were no checks or balances on the information being provided for decision making. That was rectified in my time and everyone was held accountable for the financials, irrespective of position at the club. Bear in mind I only offered to see if there was any information I could help with but again no-one comes out of it unscathed. Even JG. At times I thought he actually regretted letting me in. He got as hard time as anyone. And he accepted it. In saying that, he was playing with his own money unlike others.

The cost of the players in 2022-23 was one of the biggest in the league. There is no denying that.

It may be more of a surprise to know that the cost of the players at the start of 2023-24 was less than 10% lower per week.
So for all the talk of squeezed budgets and limited resources, that was not the case.
No reflection on anyone just stating the facts after calculating the information myself.

Players were bought and sold during the autumn and for all the talk of crisis that point, including from within the club, it may be surprising to know that the transfer fees in were £2k LESS than the transfer fees out.

But in fairness that did reduce the players cost by 20% overall. BIG difference and showed that sustainability needed to be addressed. And was addressed. 

During the year one player was bought for a club record fee. No names and no guesses please. That was not the players fault. Solely the buying club making a suitable offer that the selling club accepted. Nothing to do with the player.

Only to show that there times during the season where resources were made available and used. There was no pulling the rug under anyone.

There has also been a huge turnover of playing staff. That again cannot be denied. And getting a a large new group working together should be of huge credit to the backroom team. Just look at Chelsea or Man U to see how almost brand new squads after a few seasons still cannot work together as a unit. This was achieved in one season.

There is a bottom line that when the previous manager left he was always going to make offers for his players. Nothing new in that. This would have happened whoever was at the club. If the players served him well, of course, they were going to follow up the leagues. This resulted in a considerable transfer surplus at the start of the season. JG could have quite rightly taken some of that back or used it for something else, but he chose to provide it to the manager.

So all the money the previous manager paid to release the players he wanted was provided for the new season budget and spent accordingly. Again, nothing wrong with that. This is to detail that all monies coming into the club were not used for personal gain but to re-invest in the squad.

Comparing the budget to the actual figures, the actuals are double what the budget was to be. That falls on everyone. Not just the manager, not just JG. It is a collective responsibility.

So no pulling the rug from under anyone, no underfunding, no slips, trips, or falls during the year, all funds were maximised for the football side, and full backing was provided.

Nothing takes away from what everyone on the football side have achieved, but it is NOT with a reduction in backing. That is simply untrue.

It would have been easy for JG to walk away. He didn't. At huge personal cost, time and effort. I'm am not a yes man, I say no more than I say yes. I have given criticism where it is deserved, including JG. I didn't know him 10 months ago. But it is the small things that people don't see, the helping people, the paying for supporter mobility aids, the paying for supporter and volunteer things when the worst happens.

Not everyone's cup of tea, I get that, same as me, but what he and all the volunteers put into Darvel makes the club what it is. Not the squabbles, not the sniping, not the trying to stop the funding or the support of the club, just hard work. Maybe with just a little less camera time . . . . . . . . . 

[Wos-observer]

7 minutes ago, FHill said:

Back on to Darvel business.

Now onto the manager. While I was not there at the appointment, not at the end, I do not know the full situation and would not comment or cast aspersions onto anyone. Everyone fights for their own department and everyone has the right to do so. It should also be added that there were no checks or balances on the information being provided for decision making. That was rectified in my time and everyone was held accountable for the financials, irrespective of position at the club. Bear in mind I only offered to see if there was any information I could help with but again no-one comes out of it unscathed. Even JG. At times I thought he actually regretted letting me in. He got as hard time as anyone. And he accepted it. In saying that, he was playing with his own money unlike others.

The cost of the players in 2022-23 was one of the biggest in the league. There is no denying that.

It may be more of a surprise to know that the cost of the players at the start of 2023-24 was less than 10% lower per week.
So for all the talk of squeezed budgets and limited resources, that was not the case.
No reflection on anyone just stating the facts after calculating the information myself.

Players were bought and sold during the autumn and for all the talk of crisis that point, including from within the club, it may be surprising to know that the transfer fees in were £2k LESS than the transfer fees out.

But in fairness that did reduce the players cost by 20% overall. BIG difference and showed that sustainability needed to be addressed. And was addressed. 

During the year one player was bought for a club record fee. No names and no guesses please. That was not the players fault. Solely the buying club making a suitable offer that the selling club accepted. Nothing to do with the player.

Only to show that there times during the season where resources were made available and used. There was no pulling the rug under anyone.

There has also been a huge turnover of playing staff. That again cannot be denied. And getting a a large new group working together should be of huge credit to the backroom team. Just look at Chelsea or Man U to see how almost brand new squads after a few seasons still cannot work together as a unit. This was achieved in one season.

There is a bottom line that when the previous manager left he was always going to make offers for his players. Nothing new in that. This would have happened whoever was at the club. If the players served him well, of course, they were going to follow up the leagues. This resulted in a considerable transfer surplus at the start of the season. JG could have quite rightly taken some of that back or used it for something else, but he chose to provide it to the manager.

So all the money the previous manager paid to release the players he wanted was provided for the new season budget and spent accordingly. Again, nothing wrong with that. This is to detail that all monies coming into the club were not used for personal gain but to re-invest in the squad.

Comparing the budget to the actual figures, the actuals are double what the budget was to be. That falls on everyone. Not just the manager, not just JG. It is a collective responsibility.

So no pulling the rug from under anyone, no underfunding, no slips, trips, or falls during the year, all funds were maximised for the football side, and full backing was provided.

Nothing takes away from what everyone on the football side have achieved, but it is NOT with a reduction in backing. That is simply untrue.

It would have been easy for JG to walk away. He didn't. At huge personal cost, time and effort. I'm am not a yes man, I say no more than I say yes. I have given criticism where it is deserved, including JG. I didn't know him 10 months ago. But it is the small things that people don't see, the helping people, the paying for supporter mobility aids, the paying for supporter and volunteer things when the worst happens.

Not everyone's cup of tea, I get that, same as me, but what he and all the volunteers put into Darvel makes the club what it is. Not the squabbles, not the sniping, not the trying to stop the funding or the support of the club, just hard work. Maybe with just a little less camera time . . . . . . . . . 

So you’ve put your points across on budget is the club now sustainable I.e all player contracts can be fully paid for the duration along with any bonuses if there is any.     
 

Is there a plan in place to build bridges with either opposition clubs that there is unnecessary bad blood with? 
 

you have confirmed that the club accepts and we’re aware of the racist chanting, which I am sure will be followed up by public apology and relevant apologies to club/player involved.  
 

one last point, the is no denying considerable sums have been spent on the park, how could the playing surface fall into such a state of disrepair so quickly, what is going to happen to get it up to the appropriate level.  

[FHill]

Signing off now and hopefully for good. I will leave you all to your negative comments.

Just wanted to put some real information out to counter some of the lies being told recently. 

Even the one about players getting signed behind the managers back . . . . . it was completely the reverse.

wos-observer, I would guess that perhaps you are not a Darvel supporter. But just in case . . . . 

Certain things cannot be said contractually, but what I think I can say is that the previous contractor had to re-do the job so that says enough for the moment. It is still not to specification as there is almost minimal to zero water getting to the drains. Verti drain was helping cover the problems but this is usually not required every few weeks, from what I know, and this was not fixing the long term problem. The only difference this year is that we ceased the maintenance contract because the underground infrastructure was not correct, was not operational, and did not do what it said on the tin. 

Can't comment as was not there at the time and do not want to get too involved but suffice it to say that we were preparing for significant works in the summer to identify the issues ourselves. Yes it has been a wet winter, but when the maintenance is only disguising that the pitch was not fit for purpose, it had to stop. You would not believe the amount of effort our "elder" volunteer statesmen do each and every day to at least make it playable. Each and every day!

I am hoping that will still be the case but it was based on a lot of time and equipment from myself, and others, and I am longer there to be able to do this. I had the funding available but alas have been taken out of the equation. I was also looking to purchase a shockwave system or verti-drain but also cannot commit to that now. Hopefully funds can be raised in the summer to take the issue up with the contractor and / or add additional equipment.

I could confirm that all wages will be covered by income yes. But obviously I cannot now as won't be there. But hopefully I leave enough information and systems in place to make it so - but only (and I know I keep saying it) because of the hard work the volunteers do. If they were paid for the work they do, there would be no players. But they do it all for the players.
 

[Shankland1874]

Playing Hutton in the cup final leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Even if there was no formal agreement but could have been a gentleman’s agreement surely

[GIRUU]

26 minutes ago, Shankland1874 said:

Playing Hutton in the cup final leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Even if there was no formal agreement but could have been a gentleman’s agreement surely

It’s a cup final man.
Surely you can’t grudge a player who put in the hard yards to get their team there in the first place - a cup final which may be the only chance of winning a cup in his career. Have some sympathy. Any other game maybe but I would be gutted to miss it if it was me.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

12 hours ago, An Absolute Imposter said:

If they are kids; as soon as you lay a hand on them they get the police involved. They all seem to know their rights nowadays.

In our day a clip roon the ear sorted you oot.

 

3 hours ago, FHill said:

A quiet word with the kid!
We will be putting our apology into both WOS and also Auchinleck, but what I will not do is condemn a child for life. I will allow them to send their own apology along with ours in the hope that lessons can be learned. I’m not a leftie but I don’t want any kid hung drawn and quartered. 

I agree that kids shouldnt be condemned for their actions forever etc, but it shows a lack of awareness in terms of child protection/girfec from a club which is supposed to subscribe to the SFA code of conduct, of which child protection and ‘say no to racism’ are key components. The youths wouldnt be put to a childrens panel etc, but they could be diverted down an early and effective intervention route or other very effective programs. Could this be a stupid one off, yes, but could it actually be part of a wider child protection issue, also yes. Id suggest a lack of awareness to the point you think shouting racial abuse through a megaphone is acceptable is a clear indicator that there is a wider issue at play and one where Darvel as a responsible club has a duty of care to ensure that young person is supported. 

[Shanner]

2 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

 

I agree that kids shouldnt be condemned for their actions forever etc, but it shows a lack of awareness in terms of child protection/girfec from a club which is supposed to subscribe to the SFA code of conduct, of which child protection and ‘say no to racism’ are key components. The youths wouldnt be put to a childrens panel etc, but they could be diverted down an early and effective intervention route or other very effective programs. Could this be a stupid one off, yes, but could it actually be part of a wider child protection issue, also yes. Id suggest a lack of awareness to the point you think shouting racial abuse through a megaphone is acceptable is a clear indicator that there is a wider issue at play and one where Darvel as a responsible club has a duty of care to ensure that young person is supported. 

An interesting response. what does any of this look like in practice? I can't imagine that many clubs take much of an interest in the child protection aspect. Personally it feels like that far exceeds the scope of what a football club should be asked to do. Just wondering if it happens much in reality. 

[Shankland1874]

21 minutes ago, GIRUU said:

It’s a cup final man.
Surely you can’t grudge a player who put in the hard yards to get their team there in the first place - a cup final which may be the only chance of winning a cup in his career. Have some sympathy. Any other game maybe but I would be gutted to miss it if it was me.

To be fair with his Rangers background he has won plenty.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

22 minutes ago, Shanner said:

An interesting response. what does any of this look like in practice? I can't imagine that many clubs take much of an interest in the child protection aspect. Personally it feels like that far exceeds the scope of what a football club should be asked to do. Just wondering if it happens much in reality. 

Criteria 8.15 and 8.20 of having a license involves acting on unacceptable conduct and child protection consideration. Theres not really much for them to do, report the hate incident to the police locally, pass on details of those responsible and trust that the EEI process can be very effective in helping young people. Clubs can be reviewed in terms of their licensing criteria as to how they deal with these incidents. 

[An Absolute Imposter]

23 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

 

I agree that kids shouldnt be condemned for their actions forever etc, but it shows a lack of awareness in terms of child protection/girfec from a club which is supposed to subscribe to the SFA code of conduct, of which child protection and ‘say no to racism’ are key components. The youths wouldnt be put to a childrens panel etc, but they could be diverted down an early and effective intervention route or other very effective programs. Could this be a stupid one off, yes, but could it actually be part of a wider child protection issue, also yes. Id suggest a lack of awareness to the point you think shouting racial abuse through a megaphone is acceptable is a clear indicator that there is a wider issue at play and one where Darvel as a responsible club has a duty of care to ensure that young person is supported. 

On the issue of racism; the question I'd like answered is where are they learning it from.

Schools have for a few years now been multicultural institutions and not full of Jock Thomsons Bairns like previous generations.

Would this suggest they are learning these habits at home behind closed doors?

There is a wider issue with immigration and how it is reported in our media and comments from leading politicians. Kids pick up on this and so see it as acceptable to comment/ridicule anyone who can be considered different from them and their peers.

The amount of casual racism you come across in everyday activity from older and at times well educated people is to me shocking and pathetic.

[An Absolute Imposter]

27 minutes ago, Shanner said:

An interesting response. what does any of this look like in practice? I can't imagine that many clubs take much of an interest in the child protection aspect. Personally it feels like that far exceeds the scope of what a football club should be asked to do. Just wondering if it happens much in reality. 

I can only speak with any authority with how youth clubs are governed; but I can remember being told that all sports clubs by law need to have either a child protection officer or at the very least a person with knowledge of protection of minors.

There are enough club officials on here who should be able to furnish us with further information.