Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said: Alliance didn't bring down the Executive, that was SF, no matter Alliance's "stance" on an Irish Language Act. The Executive couldn't be reformed without SF. There’s no way SF would have pulled a stunt like that without the tacit approval of the Alliance Party. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 18 minutes ago, welshbairn said: The Alliance party has no powers to amend or scrap the protocol, nor to force either the DUP or Sinn Fein to nominate a leader in Stormont. The DUP can’t amend the protocol either, yet they can still use the levers of pressure and influence at their disposal. Alliance could promote a compromise, like they did in 2017. It would be common sense. The idea of trade barriers within a country is ridiculous, especially when it goes against the GFA principle of consent. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 Wait a minute.....have the good people of NI to give their consent on how they are governed? Asking for a people 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 It seems to me that withdrawing from a power sharing arrangement during the course of a five year administrative period, whilst bad, has a level of credibility. Refusing to enter into one immediately after a democratically held election is far less credible unless it was explicitly stated during the campaign that this action would be taken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 53 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said: There’s no way SF would have pulled a stunt like that without the tacit approval of the Alliance Party. Are they viewed as part of the "pan-nationalist front" now? Think the only people SF would need tacit approval from before any major policy decision are the ones that haven't gone away you know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 50 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: Are they viewed as part of the "pan-nationalist front" now? Think the only people SF would need tacit approval from before any major policy decision are the ones that haven't gone away you know. Political parties always have to consider other parties’ actions and their effect on their voters both present and future. It’s literally what politics means. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: It seems to me that withdrawing from a power sharing arrangement during the course of a five year administrative period, whilst bad, has a level of credibility. Refusing to enter into one immediately after a democratically held election is far less credible unless it was explicitly stated during the campaign that this action would be taken. Tbf they collapsed Stormont in February over the protocol, so that has just carried on. What they've refused to say is if they're prepared to nominate a Deputy to serve alongside a Sinn Fein First Minister even if the protocol is resolved. The powers of the positions are identical, so if they refuse it's about their obsession with symbolism, as it was with the Irish Language Act. Anyone might think they prefer being governed by London because they know they're not capable of it themselves. Look at Cash for Ash, which also collapsed Stormont. Edited May 10, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Tbf they collapsed Stormont in February over the protocol, so that has just carried on. What they've refused to say is if they're prepared to nominate a Deputy to serve alongside a Sinn Fein First Minister even if the protocol is resolved. The powers of the positions are identical, so if they refuse it's about their obsession about symbolism, as it ever was. It really just amounts to begging the very people who shafted them to now turn around and save them. It's craven. People who can be bought, can be sold, then bought and sold again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Tbf they collapsed Stormont in February over the protocol, so that has just carried on. What they've refused to say is if they're prepared to nominate a Deputy to serve alongside a Sinn Fein First Minister even if the protocol is resolved. The powers of the positions are identical, so if they refuse it's about their obsession with symbolism, as it was with the Irish Language Act. Anyone might think they prefer being governed by London because they know they're not capable of it themselves. Look at Cash for Ash, which also collapsed Stormont. The Irish Language Act was more about long-term constitutional strategy IMO. 'Giving in' to things like that has consequences in the long run. Edited May 10, 2022 by Duries Air Freshener 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 4 hours ago, LongTimeLurker said: Are they viewed as part of the "pan-nationalist front" now? Think the only people SF would need tacit approval from before any major policy decision are the ones that haven't gone away you know. I've heard Alliance referred as nationalist and unionist by various figures recently, which of course means that they are neither. Is there a way that the DUP could just be ignored in the formation of a government and just make the UUP leader deputy FM? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: I've heard Alliance referred as nationalist and unionist by various figures recently, which of course means that they are neither. Is there a way that the DUP could just be ignored in the formation of a government and just make the UUP leader deputy FM? Naw. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Duries Air Freshener said: The DUP can’t amend the protocol either, yet they can still use the levers of pressure and influence at their disposal. They were in that exact position at UK level in 2017 after the general election and ended up with them signing up to a border in the Irish Sea. They are hopeless. They'll probably manage to bumble their way to a border poll with their 'levers of pressure and influence'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 (edited) 20 minutes ago, sparky88 said: I've heard Alliance referred as nationalist and unionist by various figures recently, which of course means that they are neither. Is there a way that the DUP could just be ignored in the formation of a government and just make the UUP leader deputy FM? Only if the UUP get more seats than the DUP. I'm beginning to think they should go back to 2006 when the leader and deputy were elected by the Assembly rather than appointed by the top parties from either side. Edited May 10, 2022 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 1 minute ago, sparky88 said: They were in that exact position at UK level in 2017 after the general election and ended up with them signing up to a border in the Irish Sea. They are hopeless. They'll probably manage to bumble their way to a border poll with their 'levers of pressure and influence'. The DUP did not sign up to a border in the Irish Sea There’ll be no border poll any time soon. The conditions for one are nowhere near to having been met. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said: The DUP did not sign up to a border in the Irish Sea They made it inevitable by backing the ERG terms for Brexit instead of May's, they were just too thick to realise it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 24 minutes ago, sparky88 said: I've heard Alliance referred as nationalist and unionist by various figures recently, which of course means that they are neither. Is there a way that the DUP could just be ignored in the formation of a government and just make the UUP leader deputy FM? They officially designate as "other", however, surely if you don't actively back an alternative to the status quo then you're de facto unionist? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duries Air Freshener Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: They made it inevitable by backing the ERG terms for Brexit instead of May's, they were just too thick to realise it. If only they had your intelligence. They didn’t back any terms that included backstops or protocols which could cause trade barriers to be created within the UK. Where are you getting this from? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 6 minutes ago, Donathan said: They officially designate as "other", however, surely if you don't actively back an alternative to the status quo then you're de facto unionist? Did this make the Tories pro EU up until June 23rd 2016? Not sure I would call the Tories that, even then. There's quite a few example of Nationalists in Alliance, Anna Lo for example. Personally a big fan of parties that don't obsess over constitutional issues, which narrows electoral choice down even in Scotland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, sparky88 said: Did this make the Tories pro EU up until June 23rd 2016? Not sure I would call the Tories that, even then. There's quite a few example of Nationalists in Alliance, Anna Lo for example. Personally a big fan of parties that don't obsess over constitutional issues, which narrows electoral choice down even in Scotland. Were the Conservative Party not officially neutral on Brexit? Cameron campaigned for remain but allowed his MPs to campaign for either side. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted May 10, 2022 Share Posted May 10, 2022 9 minutes ago, Duries Air Freshener said: If only they had your intelligence. They didn’t back any terms that included backstops or protocols which could cause trade barriers to be created within the UK. Where are you getting this from? The backstop would have prevented any trade barriers for NI, either with the EU or the UK, until the UK wanted to divert from single market rules, which they've shown no intention of doing. The DUP loved all the attention they got from the ERG and went along with them, but they got dumped as soon as they'd got their votes. I wouldn't call that astute politics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.