The Big Queen's Park FC Thread

[pmonigatti]

Hopefully we play Reid from the start next week. Although given its Thistle i reckon Fox may end up playing to try and counter Graham.

No issue for me with hooking Tizzard before half time. He’d been lucky not to have been hooked earlier.

[Moodster]

53 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

Tizzard was a complete liability tonight and we were lucky that he hadn't already cost us a goal. Yes, it was really harsh, but I think if you remove your Veldman-must-go specs you'll admit that it was fair.

On the whole a decent performance. Still a frustrating failure to create good chances, mainly due to a combination of poor decision making around the box and a reluctance to get bodies in the box when the ball goes wide - we're missing a proper number 10 and Savoury can't be fit soon enough, although McKinstry will hopefully be the man for that job before too long.

McPherson and Spong both excellent I thought.

This

[an86]

15 minutes ago, pmonigatti said:

Hopefully we play Reid from the start next week. Although given its Thistle i reckon Fox may end up playing to try and counter Graham.

No issue for me with hooking Tizzard before half time. He’d been lucky not to have been hooked earlier.

It’s not the taking off that’s the issue. Less than five minutes until half-time and absolutely no need to pour salt into the wound of the boy’s mistake by basically giving him a public vote of no confidence. He seems to have no hesitation in flinging players under a bus. 

[Zanetti]

There was a lot more purpose about us tonight, even if we still weren't very good. One of my biggest complaints in recent weeks (months?) has been how passive we are and at least tonight there was an attempt to do something.

In isolation I don't think that was a horrible performance, but we need to start winning and it's not going to get any easier than Morton and Airdrie moving forward. Not looking forward to Thistle next week at all.

[CathcartSkins]

Better performance and more importantly, some belief within the team.

[Hampden Diehard]

Significant improvement last night. A lot of misplaced passes certainly, but the conditions were challenging to say the least.

Spong's tackling is as good as I've seen; Ferrie again outstanding and I felt the defending in general was up a notch. Paton showed real aggression and he might well be what I'd hoped he would be.

There was a definite glimmer of hope there.

[Spider1975]

10 hours ago, pmonigatti said:

No issue for me with hooking Tizzard before half time. He’d been lucky not to have been hooked earlier.

The whole USP of QP at the moment is attracting young talent, coaching them in certain style/philosophy and developing them around and in, the first team, with an eye on turning a profit in later years.  

Absolutely wedded to that will be the tacit understanding that given they are young and learning, they will inevitably make mistakes.  In order to learn effectively, these mistakes must a) be embraced and allowed to be made and b) dealt with in an, if not overtly positive way, then at least in a 'just' culture.  

Absolutely crucial in this is the role of the coaching team, whose standards and importantly, behaviours should be set by the head coach.  

I cannot see, not just in football, but in any walk of life, in how he so publicly chastised/humiliated Tizzard, Veldman expects to engender trust and confidence in his [especially young] players to go out and express themselves without fear of befalling a similar fate; and it's not just Tizzard; Fox has been left to stew on the bench, unless we are in dire need of a headed goal in the last 5 minutes and Reid is evidently a last resort, behind a mid-fielder.  

How that behaviour develops youth, I have no idea.  He may be a great tactician on paper, he may be a good coach, but he has a shed-load to learn about how to man-manage.  

[Hampden Diehard]

Possibly worth adding that the mood in the support last night was very positive and the despondency of recent weeks was replaced by a fair bit of enthusiasm.

[Hampden Diehard]

The Tizzard substitution seemed brutal at the time but might not have been so bad if he didn't have to walk round the park. But remember Cammy Bruce being totally overwhelmed at Firhill; he should probably have been hooked much earlier. There is maybe a place for replacing younger guys earlier in certain situations. Veldman has been getting absolute pelters recently; despite us playing well, we give away that goal. I can understand him acting decisively.

The guys go into training the day after games; I'm sure it'll all be hammered out, including the stupid red card. Tizzard shows real promise; he'll bounce back.

[Anonymous Spider]

Was pretty shocked at the time but the more I think about the Tizzard sub the more I think it was the right call. That was the 3rd time he’d lost possession under zero pressure and there was no indication that it would be his last - you can bank on Airdrie targeting him for the rest of the game after that. 

Sore one but if it’s a lesson he learns it will be worth it over the course of his career and hopefully over the rest of the season.

But a lot of this comes back to squad building… the fact that we sub a 20 year old and replace him with a 19 year old is wild.

 

 

[Stuntiethumper]

11 hours ago, an86 said:

It’s not the taking off that’s the issue. Less than five minutes until half-time and absolutely no need to pour salt into the wound of the boy’s mistake by basically giving him a public vote of no confidence. He seems to have no hesitation in flinging players under a bus. 

Watched a bit of the BBC coverage this morning. There was a lot more sympathy for Tizzard on the TV commentary last night than was in the stands with the fans.  The poor lad had a bit of a stinker. Harsh taking him off yes but he had given the ball away three times in dangerous positions and eventually cost us a goal. How many more chances should he have been given? There would be no way back from being two down.

[Spider1975]

57 minutes ago, Stuntiethumper said:

How many more chances should he have been given? There would be no way back from being two down.

Maybe not, but hooking him immediately after the goal and so close to half-time was, imho, an emotional, overt response of someone unable to tell is amygdala to shut up.  Far more elegant making the change in the break and keeping the criticism for the privacy of the dressing room, rather than for the benefit of the stands and those watching at home.  Just seemed like d*ck swinging by Veldman.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Spider1975

[an86]

Just now, Spider1975 said:

Maybe not, but hooking him immediately after the goal and so close to half-time was, imho, an emotional, overt response of someone unable to tell is amygdala to shut up.  Far more elegant making the change in the break and keeping the criticism for the privacy of the dressing room, rather than for the benefit of the stands and those watching at home.  Just seemed like d*ck swinging by Veldman.

100%. Nobody is claiming Tizzard wasn’t having a shocker. There are ways of dealing with situations and that wasn’t it. He’s asking players to play a mental high line, hanging them out to dry on a weekly basis, and hooks them when they make mistakes. What does that do to confidence?

Guys like Thomas nowhere near the level we know they can be at. This is what happens when you play football by spreadsheet. The artistry and spontaneity is thrown away and players can’t express themselves. We are such a boring watch. If Beuker goes to Ajax, I’m hopeful that it’ll prompt a review of everything. Whatever this nonsense is will win us the odd game, in spite of the guy in the dugout, but we’re kidding ourselves if we think it’s going anywhere. One look at the body language of some of the players will tell you that there’s minimal buy in. 

[Alan Twelve]

19 minutes ago, Spider1975 said:

Maybe not, but hooking him immediately after the goal and so close to half-time was, imho, an emotional, overt response of someone unable to tell is amygdala to shut up.

I think you're wrong about this. Tizzard's head had gone and there was every chance he costs us another goal in the five minutes to half time - Airdrie would have been all over him every time he went near the ball. And if that happens, doubtless there'd be some on here complaining that Veldman should have taken him off sooner...

All Tizzard needs is an arm around the shoulders from his team-mates and the coaching team, some hard work on the training ground, and a couple of games with Jong QP to get his confidence back up. He'll be fine.

[Alan Twelve]

2 hours ago, Anonymous Spider said:

Was pretty shocked at the time but the more I think about the Tizzard sub the more I think it was the right call. That was the 3rd time he’d lost possession under zero pressure and there was no indication that it would be his last - you can bank on Airdrie targeting him for the rest of the game after that. 

Sore one but if it’s a lesson he learns it will be worth it over the course of his career and hopefully over the rest of the season.

But a lot of this comes back to squad building… the fact that we sub a 20 year old and replace him with a 19 year old is wild.

 

 

The 19 year-old looked really comfortable in possession though and passed the ball around confidently. I don't know how it was for the players on the pitch obviously, but I certainly felt a lot more relaxed when he came on.

[Zanetti]

One thing that doesn't seem to have been discussed much is how poor our disciplinary record is. Last night was our second red card in the league (plus there one more in the League Cup), which matches how many we received in total last season, and we're not far off half the number of yellows from then already too. I understand it's a young team that's going to make mistakes, but there's absolutely no excuse for things like kicking opposition players. This will cost us points if it doesn't get better, and might very well have done last night too had it not been so late in the game.

[Alan Twelve]

13 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

One thing that doesn't seem to have been discussed much is how poor our disciplinary record is. Last night was our second red card in the league (plus there one more in the League Cup), which matches how many we received in total last season, and we're not far off half the number of yellows from then already too. I understand it's a young team that's going to make mistakes, but there's absolutely no excuse for things like kicking opposition players. This will cost us points if it doesn't get better, and might very well have done last night too had it not been so late in the game.

No defending Hepburn on this, it was a really dumb thing to do, but I thought the previous two reds were both poor decisions by the officials. There's an argument for the Tizzard one being red, but I thought there was clearly enough doubt re DOGSO that it should have been yellow, and the Fox one in the cup was a terrible decision as he clearly got the ball in the challenge - it wasn't even a foul, never mind a red card.

Actually the Hepburn incident last night was terrible officiating too. 100% a red card, but how did the assistant miss that he'd been taken out by a "tackle" that was about seven or eight minutes late? Should have been a red to Hepburn, but a free kick for Queen's and a yellow for the Airdrie defender. Instead Airdrie get a free kick. WTF, etc.

[Zanetti]

6 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

No defending Hepburn on this, it was a really dumb thing to do, but I thought the previous two reds were both poor decisions by the officials. There's an argument for the Tizzard one being red, but I thought there was clearly enough doubt re DOGSO that it should have been yellow, and the Fox one in the cup was a terrible decision as he clearly got the ball in the challenge - it wasn't even a foul, never mind a red card.

 

I don't disagree about Tizzard's red, but it was still a daft foul which he didn't need to make and would've at the very least been a yellow, which we've amassed quite a lot of already.

[Stuntiethumper]

53 minutes ago, an86 said:

100%. Nobody is claiming Tizzard wasn’t having a shocker. There are ways of dealing with situations and that wasn’t it. He’s asking players to play a mental high line, hanging them out to dry on a weekly basis, and hooks them when they make mistakes. What does that do to confidence?

Guys like Thomas nowhere near the level we know they can be at. This is what happens when you play football by spreadsheet. The artistry and spontaneity is thrown away and players can’t express themselves. We are such a boring watch. If Beuker goes to Ajax, I’m hopeful that it’ll prompt a review of everything. Whatever this nonsense is will win us the odd game, in spite of the guy in the dugout, but we’re kidding ourselves if we think it’s going anywhere. One look at the body language of some of the players will tell you that there’s minimal buy in. 

The team I saw last night displayed passion, aggression, pace and attacking intent. That suggests to me there is plenty of buy-in.  

A sub-par performance from Thomas perhaps but he was up against a defender that had the measure of him.  That happens sometimes. 

I agree we have been a boring watch in recent weeks. That is not in doubt.  I was even mulling over making Airdrie my last away day for a while but I saw welcome improvements in the team performance that if built on, will see me at Somerset Park.

[an86]

Just now, Stuntiethumper said:

The team I saw last night displayed passion, aggression, pace and attacking intent. That suggests to me there is plenty of buy-in.  

A sub-par performance from Thomas perhaps but he was up against a defender that had the measure of him.  That happens sometimes. 

I agree we have been a boring watch in recent weeks. That is not in doubt.  I was even mulling over making Airdrie my last away day for a while but I saw welcome improvements in the team performance that if built on, will see me at Somerset Park.

I saw two very average looking teams huffing and puffing. We need to raise our standards. We’re a professional team being well backed. As a bare minimum, we should be well organised. 

We are not well drilled and we don’t move the ball anywhere near quickly enough to cause real problems. Possession only matters if you do something with it. Last season, it was one touch and go. This season is three and four touches and move it sideways. Rather than moving opposition defenders around, we’re just passing it around in front of them and allowing them to keep their shape.

We’re so easy to play against. Just watch us knock it around side ways, wait for a moment of slackness and clip it over the top. Goal. It’s the same every single week. The only reason Morton couldn’t do it was their lack of mobility in the final third.