The Big Queen's Park FC Thread

[Alan Twelve]

51 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

I don't disagree about Tizzard's red, but it was still a daft foul which he didn't need to make and would've at the very least been a yellow, which we've amassed quite a lot of already.

Funnily enough, I thought Tizzard's biggest mistake last night was not taking man and ball after that heavy touch - tried to win the ball instead of making sure the opponent didn't. A prime example of where you take a yellow for the team which I guess was what he tried to do when he got himself sent off at Raith.

[Bring Your Own Socks]

I commented early in the season that we’d likely see regular change in the defence and so it’s been. My prediction was based on my opinion that despite good numbers we had very little experience. Fox had his best of times when playing alongside Kilday. When Lee was out for a few weeks and the big 66 chap played Fox looked extremely uncomfortable. Now he’s the most experienced central defender we have he seems to have lost it again. Which leaves the others, Tizzard, Bannon and Reid, rudderless too. Interesting that Bannon and Reid have both been in the QP system since age 9 but both seem to be the last choices rather than the first.

From what I’ve seen of Reid, admittedly not much, he looks useful and assured like Bannon does. But both still much to learn and mistakes will come. Tizzard hasn’t impressed me at all and looks nervy. He and Fox seem to have interpreted “playing from the back” as hitting slow, lazy side foot passes to each other until they run out of space/time and a long flighted ball follows, invariably losing possession. I think it was right to take him out. Imagine the rage if he’d gifted Airdrie again before half-time. If there’s a question to be asked of the coach it would be why did he start Tizzard when clearly not in the zone?

We've problems at both ends of the field. If there’s any part of the team you want stable it’s the defence but it’s been chopped and changed, not just in individuals but shape. Not good. Paton still hasn’t found a mate and seems to be in a permarage. Thomas has been underwhelming since early Spring. The burden of Skipper is the last thing he needs. The midfield looks like it could work but front and back needs a reboot.

Overall,  there’s too many players are having their own game weakened by the expectation of supporting someone else. Whether that’s planned or subconscious, it needs to stop. If there’s players not good enough for this league then that sits at Beuker’s door. If his grand plan can’t be afforded by QPFC he, and her, should have sorted that a long time ago. 

Veldman: looked like a 4231 last night which I take as an acceptance his back three wasn’t working. But different from the 4411 he tried at Falkirk. The players must be confused, at least. 

[Passionate]

Decent game in horrendous conditions,  both teams tried to zip the ball about,  over the 90 QP were the better side,  passing and movement in midfield was very good and kept us quiet for long spells,  I never really felt that both teams really went for it, don't know if that is down to style of play and being overcoached..

If you carried out a weird science type project you could maybe get a decent side between the two of them...

[SensibleSpider]

49 minutes ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

Veldman: looked like a 4231 last night which I take as an acceptance his back three wasn’t working. But different from the 4411 he tried at Falkirk. The players must be confused, at least. 

It wasn't really a back 3. Just really narrow front to back with a midfielder dropping to help move the ball on. I know he's listed as favouring a 343 previously but don't think there's anywhere near the players for that. I think since he patched the really narrow formation it's always been a bit of 433 with either one sitting and two higher , or two sitters sort of thing. 

[SensibleSpider]

I try and keep the emotion seperate where I can. There's no doubt it's been a tough couple of months results wise. But when I see people saying there's no semblance of a style, or that Robin isn't tactically aware is mad. early on we were playing some fantastic stuff. If what others are saying that lesser is a no QP zone now maybe makes some sense. 

Then you see folk on here wanting OC back . Every match was like a game of 5s last year. That's what tactical ineptitude looks like, just hoping having a good squad is enough to win games and then absolutely chucking the league after January. Do you remember the run we went on ? Was it 1 goal in 4/5 games ? 

I think a few on here need to take off the nostalgia glasses and realise the signs of weakness within this squad were very very obvious last year. 

I think when the attacking flow starts in the team it could be special . Even in the games we've lost we've been good at controlling the game up until the final 3rd and then it just kind of feels awkward. If you don't score then obviously poor defending is going to hurt you even more . 

Or equally, it may not happen soon enough and we are back at square one. 

 

Just my 2p after being a major lurker the last couple years haha 

Edited November 28, 2023 by SensibleSpider
Took out a sentence that had bugged me

[Anonymous Spider]

I think a lot of this comes down to expectations. What do we actually reasonably expect from the team this season? What have we been told is the target? And hey - what has Veldman actually been tasked with?

Is it just stay up this year, get some games in the legs and try and put a run together next season? Who knows.  

I’m my most optimistic moments, I can see this team starting to click and putting together some results. Flip side is an injury/ suspension to Spong and Paton and we’re snookered.

Although anyone really think that if we’re still pish and seriously struggling in December the Lord won’t just splash the cash?  

[spiders4ever]

On 17/10/2023 at 23:32, Alan Twelve said:

All you had to do was have a wee chuckle at your own expense after your mistake and you could walk out with your head held high; people would be laughing with you and not at you.

Oh well. At the end of the first round won 2 drawn 2 lost 5.

However in round two won 1 drawn 0 lost 0.

[Moodster]

Just back in from a very frustrating 98mins of football at Exeter, something like 80% of slow possession and nothing to show for it - where have you heard that before! 

Honestly think that Exeter are a mirror image of Queen's at the moment (bar a better performance last night) they too had a good start to the season and have now lost 5 on the trot! 

Exeter have Gary Caldwell as manager and he's from the same school of thinking as Veldman! IMO they both have a decent first eleven that they feel can successfully adopt there brand of ' total ' football but each team is really struggling to put into practise successfully and teams have now worked out how they play against it. 

Incidently, for those that don't know me I was a QP fan home and away for many years before I moved down here about 3 years ago. 

Anyway, hope both teams improve their results soon. Caldwell's job is pretty safe because Exeter tend to give their manager lots of time to get it right. Veldman, not sure, depends how the man with the money feels about the team and  if we're  in a relegation fight. 

 

[Velvet Donkey]

5 hours ago, SensibleSpider said:

I try and keep the emotion seperate where I can. There's no doubt it's been a tough couple of months results wise. But when I see people saying there's no semblance of a style, or that Robin isn't tactically aware is mad. What I would say is coming to Scotland with a desire to play total football given the way the lower leagues are is his weakness. That alongside a young squad , with only a few experienced heads. But early on we were playing some fantastic stuff. If what others are saying that lesser is a no QP zone now maybe makes some sense. 

Then you see folk on here wanting OC back . Every match was like a game of 5s last year. That's what tactical ineptitude looks like, just hoping having a good squad is enough to win games and then absolutely chucking the league after January. Do you remember the run we went on ? Was it 1 goal in 4/5 games ? 

I think a few on here need to take off the nostalgia glasses and realise the signs of weakness within this squad were very very obvious last year. 

I think when the attacking flow starts in the team it could be special . Even in the games we've lost we've been good at controlling the game up until the final 3rd and then it just kind of feels awkward. If you don't score then obviously poor defending is going to hurt you even more . 

Or equally, it may not happen soon enough and we are back at square one. 

 

Just my 2p after being a major lurker the last couple years haha 

Good to see some challenging views here. It's true that it doesn't take much for emotions to change week to week, and we've seen that this team has natural talent.  A few little signs of things being fixed and I think most here would get back on board with Veldman. For me it just seems too uncompromising though, and asking a lot of young developing players with no experienced heads around them, and a thin squad.

'Tactical ineptitude' brought us to within 90 minutes of winning the Championship last season. This season If we avoid a relegation dogfight somehow, we can hopefully make a dent next season with the aggressive, exciting, possession-based football we were promised, and with the next wave of YoungQP ready to come through.

Having said that I did think last night was more positive, and I'm sure we will improve.

[SensibleSpider]

31 minutes ago, Velvet Donkey said:

...'Tactical ineptitude' brought us to within 90 minutes of winning the Championship last season...

While definitely true, my point was more we were miles ahead because of a good run. And then when things did get difficult we dropped rapid points against much weaker opposition teams and absolutely collapsed. We shouldn't have had to win the last game, champagne should've been popped in this run

I'll agree losing big Simon played a big part in the lack of goals , however I think that also collaborates with my point there wasn't much of a tactical plan we just did well in patches because of the firepower we had to bail us out. Which I will absolutely agree in the lower leagues is sometimes the difference! 

Absolutely not to diminish what Owen did achieve with that squad , none of us thought at the start of the season we would be within touching distance. Again I'm just trying to  take emotion away and be as much of the devil's advocate as I can to provide a different view, because I also went into the Dundee game certain we were going to pull it off somehow

 

[EaglesandSpiders]

6 hours ago, Anonymous Spider said:

What do we actually reasonably expect from the team this season?

The expectation is always the same: get better, be a better team, improve. How? = Recruitment, training/coaching, and of course outplaying your opponents on the pitch and getting results.

Recruitment-wise, I don't think we built a much worse starting eleven than what we had the second half last season. We have a consistent midfielder in Spong after we lost Mal, Paton is way better and hungrier than Shields, McPherson & Hepburn are two very talented and dedicated loanees who filled crucial gaps in our right wing, Longridge is probably playing the best game of football in his career, not to mention Thomson is a much better & improved No:8 than he was last season. The only new signings who are underperforming are Tizzard and Turner, who I truly believe is a dud. That's why we signed Mckinstry to fill that Savoury-shaped hole in between our midfield and attacking line. That being said, the bench is virtually empty. The team is incredibly lacking in depth, which limits rotation and hinders competition for a first team spot. It also makes us a very soft team with no options to change game play or fresh legs, when things go south. 

In terms of coaching/training, I would like to think we have the best facilities and coaching & back room staff in the Championship, by far, at all levels. So no problems there. And once the Sagrada Familia of the south side is completed, we will have a proper home ground. 

Which brings me to item number 3: what's been happening on the pitch. Everybody seems to agree that we made a fantastic start to the season with 3 wins in a row but I disagree. After an early exit from the League Cup, we beat Inverness and Arbroath (twice) when they were at their absolute worst, by only one goal in all three matches (1-2, 2-1, and 0-1). Then disaster struck. And in all of the five matches we lost, it was all down to one man: Mr. Veldman. I was at the Thistle game and watched young Cammy Bruce get destroyed by Lawless, costing us two goals in the first half. Poor analysis of your opponent & bad team selection = Veldman's fault. 

Then came the Raith Rovers game. After Tizzard's sending off, the team came back with incredible composure and concentration to take the lead, only to be sabotaged by Veldman's ridiculous substitutions. 

I thought we would be carrying that ambition to win helped by our dominant midfield into the Dunfermline game but that was again sabotaged by Mr. Veldman when he decided to chuck Thomson to the back and leave our midfield toothless, which lost us another 3 points. 

Well, I thought he must have learned his lesson, but nooo. He tried the same bullshit in the Ayr game, and we were pumped, conceding one humiliating goal after another. 

The Dundee Utd. game was a free hit, I agree, but that second half display again showed how soft and toothless we are on the pitch, despite a decent first team. 

The Morton game (I fucking hate those guys) showed a team that have forgotten how to score goals. The story so far was we couldn't defend. I didn't know we couldn't score any more. It was the worst game of football I've seen this team play in years. It was truly embarrassing. And Mr. Veldman did not hesitate to throw his players under the bus by saying that they are making individual mistakes and not taking responsibility. 

Then came another shitshow against Falkirk in the Challenge Cup. If it hadn't been for Ferrie, who showed a very rare example of professionalism to prevent an even more humiliating defeat after being left to rot on the bench and play in Young QP games for weeks, we would be beaten 3-4 to nothing. We lost 1-0 despite Mr. Veldman's out-of-the-box thinking when he took one look at Fox and said "Son, you know you look like a proper striker, why don't you play the last 15 mins up the field, running left and right like a headless chicken?". Amazing stuff. Pulled the plug for me then and there. 

Last night against Airdrie (I hate those guys too but hey everybody hates fucking Airdrie, right?), we were again saved by Ferrie from losing against a team who literally have no manager and assistant manager. But more importantly, we lost a young man on the pitch. Management 101: You don't make an example of a player (no matter how honking he is) when you're playing away from home in front of hundreds of hostile fans who mock him on his way out. 

So please stop defending this incompetent & insecure p***k who doesn't know the first thing about managing a team of decent players on decent wages, training in top-notch facilities and trying to do what they have been told week after week on the pitch. I said this before and I'm saying it again: Veldman doesn't understand the difference between managing a youth team and managing a young first team. He needs to go. Things will get much much worse if he doesn't. 

Apologies for the long post. Beşiktaş also lost tonight and I'm in a bit of a mood. 

 

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, EaglesandSpiders said:

The expectation is always the same: get better, be a better team, improve. How? = Recruitment, training/coaching, and of course outplaying your opponents on the pitch and getting results.

Recruitment-wise, I don't think we built a much worse starting eleven than what we had the second half last season. We have a consistent midfielder in Spong after we lost Mal, Paton is way better and hungrier than Shields, McPherson & Hepburn are two very talented and dedicated loanees who filled crucial gaps in our right wing, Longridge is probably playing the best game of football in his career, not to mention Thomson is a much better & improved No:8 than he was last season. The only new signings who are underperforming are Tizzard and Turner, who I truly believe is a dud. That's why we signed Mckinstry to fill that Savoury-shaped hole in between our midfield and attacking line. That being said, the bench is virtually empty. The team is incredibly lacking in depth, which limits rotation and hinders competition for a first team spot. It also makes us a very soft team with no options to change game play or fresh legs, when things go south. 

In terms of coaching/training, I would like to think we have the best facilities and coaching & back room staff in the Championship, by far, at all levels. So no problems there. And once the Sagrada Familia of the south side is completed, we will have a proper home ground. 

Which brings me to item number 3: what's been happening on the pitch. Everybody seems to agree that we made a fantastic start to the season with 3 wins in a row but I disagree. After an early exit from the League Cup, we beat Inverness and Arbroath (twice) when they were at their absolute worst, by only one goal in all three matches (1-2, 2-1, and 0-1). Then disaster struck. And in all of the five matches we lost, it was all down to one man: Mr. Veldman. I was at the Thistle game and watched young Cammy Bruce get destroyed by Lawless, costing us two goals in the first half. Poor analysis of your opponent & bad team selection = Veldman's fault. 

Then came the Raith Rovers game. After Tizzard's sending off, the team came back with incredible composure and concentration to take the lead, only to be sabotaged by Veldman's ridiculous substitutions. 

I thought we would be carrying that ambition to win helped by our dominant midfield into the Dunfermline game but that was again sabotaged by Mr. Veldman when he decided to chuck Thomson to the back and leave our midfield toothless, which lost us another 3 points. 

Well, I thought he must have learned his lesson, but nooo. He tried the same bullshit in the Ayr game, and we were pumped, conceding one humiliating goal after another. 

The Dundee Utd. game was a free hit, I agree, but that second half display again showed how soft and toothless we are on the pitch, despite a decent first team. 

The Morton game (I fucking hate those guys) showed a team that have forgotten how to score goals. The story so far was we couldn't defend. I didn't know we couldn't score any more. It was the worst game of football I've seen this team play in years. It was truly embarrassing. And Mr. Veldman did not hesitate to throw his players under the bus by saying that they are making individual mistakes and not taking responsibility. 

Then came another shitshow against Falkirk in the Challenge Cup. If it hadn't been for Ferrie, who showed a very rare example of professionalism to prevent an even more humiliating defeat after being left to rot on the bench and play in Young QP games for weeks, we would be beaten 3-4 to nothing. We lost 1-0 despite Mr. Veldman's out-of-the-box thinking when he took one look at Fox and said "Son, you know you look like a proper striker, why don't you play the last 15 mins up the field, running left and right like a headless chicken?". Amazing stuff. Pulled the plug for me then and there. 

Last night against Airdrie (I hate those guys too but hey everybody hates fucking Airdrie, right?), we were again saved by Ferrie from losing against a team who literally have no manager and assistant manager. But more importantly, we lost a young man on the pitch. Management 101: You don't make an example of a player (no matter how honking he is) when you're playing away from home in front of hundreds of hostile fans who mock him on his way out. 

So please stop defending this incompetent & insecure p***k who doesn't know the first thing about managing a team of decent players on decent wages, training in top-notch facilities and trying to do what they have been told week after week on the pitch. I said this before and I'm saying it again: Veldman doesn't understand the difference between managing a youth team and managing a young first team. He needs to go. Things will get much much worse if he doesn't. 

Apologies for the long post. Beşiktaş also lost tonight and I'm in a bit of a mood. 

 

Why do you 'hate' Morton?

[vikingTON]

1 hour ago, SensibleSpider said:

While definitely true, my point was more we were miles ahead because of a good run. And then when things did get difficult we dropped rapid points against much weaker opposition teams and absolutely collapsed. 

As opposed to your record so far this season, which is in no way similar to that.

[spiderman1867]

Does anyone know why our game against thistle is on Friday this week ,as its not on tv I don't think. 

[Alan Twelve]

12 minutes ago, spiderman1867 said:

Does anyone know why our game against thistle is on Friday this week ,as its not on tv I don't think. 

It's to give the pitch an extra day of recovery before Scotland Women play an international at Hampden next week.

[spiderman1867]

6 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

It's to give the pitch an extra day of recovery before Scotland Women play an international at Hampden next week.

Ah ok,same as last time ,cheers mate

[CathcartSkins]

13 hours ago, EaglesandSpiders said:

The expectation is always the same: get better, be a better team, improve. How? = Recruitment, training/coaching, and of course outplaying your opponents on the pitch and getting results.

Recruitment-wise, I don't think we built a much worse starting eleven than what we had the second half last season. We have a consistent midfielder in Spong after we lost Mal, Paton is way better and hungrier than Shields, McPherson & Hepburn are two very talented and dedicated loanees who filled crucial gaps in our right wing, Longridge is probably playing the best game of football in his career, not to mention Thomson is a much better & improved No:8 than he was last season. The only new signings who are underperforming are Tizzard and Turner, who I truly believe is a dud. That's why we signed Mckinstry to fill that Savoury-shaped hole in between our midfield and attacking line. That being said, the bench is virtually empty. The team is incredibly lacking in depth, which limits rotation and hinders competition for a first team spot. It also makes us a very soft team with no options to change game play or fresh legs, when things go south. 

In terms of coaching/training, I would like to think we have the best facilities and coaching & back room staff in the Championship, by far, at all levels. So no problems there. And once the Sagrada Familia of the south side is completed, we will have a proper home ground. 

Which brings me to item number 3: what's been happening on the pitch. Everybody seems to agree that we made a fantastic start to the season with 3 wins in a row but I disagree. After an early exit from the League Cup, we beat Inverness and Arbroath (twice) when they were at their absolute worst, by only one goal in all three matches (1-2, 2-1, and 0-1). Then disaster struck. And in all of the five matches we lost, it was all down to one man: Mr. Veldman. I was at the Thistle game and watched young Cammy Bruce get destroyed by Lawless, costing us two goals in the first half. Poor analysis of your opponent & bad team selection = Veldman's fault. 

Then came the Raith Rovers game. After Tizzard's sending off, the team came back with incredible composure and concentration to take the lead, only to be sabotaged by Veldman's ridiculous substitutions. 

I thought we would be carrying that ambition to win helped by our dominant midfield into the Dunfermline game but that was again sabotaged by Mr. Veldman when he decided to chuck Thomson to the back and leave our midfield toothless, which lost us another 3 points. 

Well, I thought he must have learned his lesson, but nooo. He tried the same bullshit in the Ayr game, and we were pumped, conceding one humiliating goal after another. 

The Dundee Utd. game was a free hit, I agree, but that second half display again showed how soft and toothless we are on the pitch, despite a decent first team. 

The Morton game (I fucking hate those guys) showed a team that have forgotten how to score goals. The story so far was we couldn't defend. I didn't know we couldn't score any more. It was the worst game of football I've seen this team play in years. It was truly embarrassing. And Mr. Veldman did not hesitate to throw his players under the bus by saying that they are making individual mistakes and not taking responsibility. 

Then came another shitshow against Falkirk in the Challenge Cup. If it hadn't been for Ferrie, who showed a very rare example of professionalism to prevent an even more humiliating defeat after being left to rot on the bench and play in Young QP games for weeks, we would be beaten 3-4 to nothing. We lost 1-0 despite Mr. Veldman's out-of-the-box thinking when he took one look at Fox and said "Son, you know you look like a proper striker, why don't you play the last 15 mins up the field, running left and right like a headless chicken?". Amazing stuff. Pulled the plug for me then and there. 

Last night against Airdrie (I hate those guys too but hey everybody hates fucking Airdrie, right?), we were again saved by Ferrie from losing against a team who literally have no manager and assistant manager. But more importantly, we lost a young man on the pitch. Management 101: You don't make an example of a player (no matter how honking he is) when you're playing away from home in front of hundreds of hostile fans who mock him on his way out. 

So please stop defending this incompetent & insecure p***k who doesn't know the first thing about managing a team of decent players on decent wages, training in top-notch facilities and trying to do what they have been told week after week on the pitch. I said this before and I'm saying it again: Veldman doesn't understand the difference between managing a youth team and managing a young first team. He needs to go. Things will get much much worse if he doesn't. 

Apologies for the long post. Beşiktaş also lost tonight and I'm in a bit of a mood. 

 

There is so much of this, that is blinkered nonsense. 

[williebraveheart]

15 minutes ago, CathcartSkins said:

There is so much of this, that is blinkered nonsense. 

Expand?

[EaglesandSpiders]

1 hour ago, CathcartSkins said:

There is so much of this, that is blinkered nonsense. 

I don't know you but I wish you weren't so dismissive of other people's opinions here.

[Spider1975]

14 hours ago, EaglesandSpiders said:

The expectation is always the same: get better, be a better team, improve. How? = Recruitment, training/coaching, and of course outplaying your opponents on the pitch and getting results.

Recruitment-wise, I don't think we built a much worse starting eleven than what we had the second half last season.

Whether causal or coincidence, a few weeks after the sale of Simon Murray last year and with a fit Grant Savoury in the team, performances and results took a nose-dive.  OC seemed to have one way to play and only tinkered with who to play on the left, or towards the end, the CB pairing.  As you say, the team this year is similar, just maybe lighter (in terms of numbers, if not quality) and crucially, a lot younger.

This year was always going to be that difficult second album; consolidation in the Championship and trying to stay out of trouble as we continued the transition into what the project/process called for, i.e the identification, recruitment and development of youth.  My expectations therefore were quite low and I'm not, nor never was, expecting a push for the title, or even the play-offs.  

That all said, the accusation of inflexibility levelled at OC can most equally be placed at Veldman's door too; we continue with flavours of 4-3-3,  high-line, ad-hoc pressing, poor decision making and at times poor ball retention.  Other than vs Arbroath and at times vs Airdie I've not seen much evidence of the aggressive attacking football he professes to play.  The only difference so far between the two may be that I can't imagine OC throwing any of his players under the bus so publicly as RV did on Friday, (but have already given my tuppence worth on that already).

Lets hope Friday was the start of a positive trend towards better performances and results.