The Big Queen's Park FC Thread

[Bring Your Own Socks]

17 minutes ago, Alan Twelve said:

FFS, he was in charge of the first team. Show some dignity and admit that you're wrong.

Or tie yourself in knots pretending that it somehow doesn't count. Your choice, I suppose.

There’s a world of difference in caretaking an established team playing at a high level in one of the better leagues in the world, compared to trying to get a start-up going with a heavy bias on inexperienced youngsters. And it was for a short period, not sustained. But you left out the real key to that story; that he never got the full-time job and the new coach let him go. And no other club offered him first team coach.
 
When Beuker had a wee go at managing our first team I hunted the internet and couldn’t find any first team reference for him. So he took the chance to be on the touchline and I thought fair enough, he’s getting a feel for the Scottish game. Now, apart from a handful of games between the two of them, we've basically got long-term development coaches with the first and second jobs in the football hierarchy at Queen’s Park. Overlay that with a heavily tilted squad of inexperience and it’s not surprising we are where we are. 

Now if that is all part of the plan and contingencies built in around that, fair enough. But they can’t say that because effectively the message to any new fans, and probably many existing, is take the winter off guys and check in around early March to see how we are getting on. 

When Beuker introduced his plan I assumed it would be 2-3 years for the thing to knit based on the current academy guys, like Bannon and Reid, having a few years learning from the men. 2-3 per season introduced and over a few years the new method would replace the old. That’s not what’s happening. I expected Beuker to come to that Q&A recently but he didn’t, sent out the troops and hid. I won’t be surprised at all if he scarpers back to his bestie at Ajax.

[Arachnophile]

4 hours ago, Zanetti said:

 2 points from a potential 21

 

1 hour ago, EaglesandSpiders said:

This never stops sounding worse and worse each time I think about it. 

Maybe try thinking about 11 points from potential 30, then.

[EaglesandSpiders]

2 hours ago, Alan Twelve said:

FFS, he was in charge of the first team. Show some dignity and admit that you're wrong.

Or tie yourself in knots pretending that it somehow doesn't count. Your choice, I suppose.

I don't need to pretend anything. You said it yourself that "it was only for half a dozen games". 

[Spider1975]

12 hours ago, Arachnophile said:

Rangers gave Michael Beale 10 months before binning him. You and a few others would get rid of Veldman after 4 months. Id like to think we have a little more patience and tolerance than Rangers fans. No idea how it will work out but I don't think 4 month  is a "fair chance" 

 

There's a difference between coaching and managing and it could be argued that in buying into the project of 'developing youth', maybe we didn't countenance the development of relatively inexperienced management too.  

I don't think anyone really wants to see anyone, (and by that I mean players and coaches) fail and certainly, although critical of Veldman recently, it's only October and therefore I'm not minded to want a change....at the moment at least; in the end it'll be down to big Willie's vanity as to whether he can face his project having a year (or more) back in L1.  

Question is, how far does he let this go?

[Zanetti]

10 hours ago, Arachnophile said:

 

Maybe try thinking about 11 points from potential 30, then.

Averaged out over a full season of 36 games and rounded up, that would have us finish 7th twice, 8th five times, and 9th three times (depending on goal difference in one case) in the past ten non shortened Championship/First Division seasons. I'm not sure I like those odds.

[an86]

45 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

Averaged out over a full season of 36 games and rounded up, that would have us finish 7th twice, 8th five times, and 9th three times (depending on goal difference in one case) in the past ten non shortened Championship/First Division seasons. I'm not sure I like those odds.

Think the most concerning part is that, Dundee United aside, the run of fixtures we’ve had is one where you’d have been looking to pick up points. Two recently promoted teams, two teams you’d expect in the bottom half, a team from the division below. In isolation, any of those results and performances can happen. It’s the fact that it’s looking like a pattern that is alarming. 

[Alan Twelve]

11 hours ago, Bring Your Own Socks said:

There’s a world of difference in caretaking an established team playing at a high level in one of the better leagues in the world, compared to trying to get a start-up going with a heavy bias on inexperienced youngsters. And it was for a short period, not sustained. But you left out the real key to that story; that he never got the full-time job and the new coach let him go. And no other club offered him first team coach.
 
When Beuker had a wee go at managing our first team I hunted the internet and couldn’t find any first team reference for him. So he took the chance to be on the touchline and I thought fair enough, he’s getting a feel for the Scottish game. Now, apart from a handful of games between the two of them, we've basically got long-term development coaches with the first and second jobs in the football hierarchy at Queen’s Park. Overlay that with a heavily tilted squad of inexperience and it’s not surprising we are where we are. 

Now if that is all part of the plan and contingencies built in around that, fair enough. But they can’t say that because effectively the message to any new fans, and probably many existing, is take the winter off guys and check in around early March to see how we are getting on. 

When Beuker introduced his plan I assumed it would be 2-3 years for the thing to knit based on the current academy guys, like Bannon and Reid, having a few years learning from the men. 2-3 per season introduced and over a few years the new method would replace the old. That’s not what’s happening. I expected Beuker to come to that Q&A recently but he didn’t, sent out the troops and hid. I won’t be surprised at all if he scarpers back to his bestie at Ajax.

You make a good case here, but I was responding to E&S's rather over the top claims that Veldman is some sort of footballing naïf with no experience of real men's football - he was caretaker and assistant manager at Anderlecht. Perhaps, as you say, not the best preparation for his current role, but he clearly does have experience of real competitive football with pressure to get results (most specifically the 2-0 away win against Servette that got them into the knockout stages of the Conference League).

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt still. I think up to the Ayr game he was sussing out the squad and deciding what he was dealing with, hence some strange substitutions and experiments. He's made some bad mistakes - the late subs at Raith - and the results of the experiments have been mixed - e.g. Thomson at centre-back bad, Longridge at right-back good.

After the Ayr debacle he's apparently gone back to basics and is trying to get the defensive shape sorted without abandoning the style in which he wants us to play, and I would argue that it's working. Dundee Utd was bad, but mainly down to the players just not doing their jobs properly, not any tactical issue (also, I look at the Thistle result on Saturday and think that maybe we weren't actually that bad...). Since then it's been two goals conceded in three games, one a pen, one from an unforced individual error, which is pretty solid - of course the focus on defence has led to some dreary attacking displays, but you have to build from the back, and I think the performance against Airdrie was actually pretty decent all round.

I'm not trying to argue that everything's amazing; we're in serious danger of spending the rest of the season in a relegation battle, and he really needs to get the attack firing, hopefully starting on Friday night, but I believe that he knows what he's doing and I trust him to get it right. I may feel differently if we get pumped on Friday, mind.

[Stuntiethumper]

2 hours ago, Alan Twelve said:

You make a good case here, but I was responding to E&S's rather over the top claims that Veldman is some sort of footballing naïf with no experience of real men's football - he was caretaker and assistant manager at Anderlecht. Perhaps, as you say, not the best preparation for his current role, but he clearly does have experience of real competitive football with pressure to get results (most specifically the 2-0 away win against Servette that got them into the knockout stages of the Conference League).

I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt still. I think up to the Ayr game he was sussing out the squad and deciding what he was dealing with, hence some strange substitutions and experiments. He's made some bad mistakes - the late subs at Raith - and the results of the experiments have been mixed - e.g. Thomson at centre-back bad, Longridge at right-back good.

After the Ayr debacle he's apparently gone back to basics and is trying to get the defensive shape sorted without abandoning the style in which he wants us to play, and I would argue that it's working. Dundee Utd was bad, but mainly down to the players just not doing their jobs properly, not any tactical issue (also, I look at the Thistle result on Saturday and think that maybe we weren't actually that bad...). Since then it's been two goals conceded in three games, one a pen, one from an unforced individual error, which is pretty solid - of course the focus on defence has led to some dreary attacking displays, but you have to build from the back, and I think the performance against Airdrie was actually pretty decent all round.

I'm not trying to argue that everything's amazing; we're in serious danger of spending the rest of the season in a relegation battle, and he really needs to get the attack firing, hopefully starting on Friday night, but I believe that he knows what he's doing and I trust him to get it right. I may feel differently if we get pumped on Friday, mind.

Over the last few days there have been some very interesting and thoughtful exchanges in the forum on the struggles the club is enduring.  Looking across the posts I think most folk agree on the facts i.e. we have talented but inexperienced team that is underperforming and struggling to adapt to a new system, along with coach still finding his feet and DoF insistent on youth recruitment when perhaps a few more older heads would not be a bad thing.  The disagreement I see seems to be more around perspective: for some their cup is half empty. For others recent results suggest it might be half full.  I am in the latter camp. That might be wishful thinking on my part but I think the season is going to feel a lot longer for those who think their cup is half empty. 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Stuntiethumper

[Bring Your Own Socks]

2 hours ago, Stuntiethumper said:

Over the last few days there have been some very interesting and thoughtful exchanges in the forum on the struggles the club is enduring.  Looking across the posts I think most folk agree on the facts i.e. we have talented but inexperienced team that is underperforming and struggling to adapt to a new system, along with coach still finding his feet and DoF insistent on youth recruitment when perhaps a few more older heads would not be a bad thing.  The disagreement I see seems to be more around perspective: for some their cup is half empty. For others recent results suggest it might be half full.  I am in the latter camp. That might be wishful thinking on my part but I think the season is going to feel a lot longer for those who think their cup is half empty. 

 

I’d say every disagreement around the world is based on a circumstance seen from different perspectives. I see this as a debate between Pragmatists and Idealists. Maybe length of service is a factor too?  Much more interesting than the old Postive or Negative story. 

Then of course we have the Opportunists; they just see the glass of water as a chance to grab a drink. 

[Bring Your Own Socks]

And here’s another perspective from a decade ago.

The highest home win was Berwick winning 4-0….against Queen’s Park.

The highest away win was Peterhead winning 5-0….against Queen’s Park

[Zanetti]

Beuker to Ajax being reported as a done deal now according to a couple of Dutch pages on Twitter. I'd hoped there had been no more talk of it for a while because it fell through or was just nonsense! It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next if this is true.

[QP MAD]

Hopefully enough compensation to get a new stand built . Disappointing end to someone who talked a good game . 

[williebraveheart]

Ajax just sacked their head coach. Two for the price of one?

[mcjameos]

38 minutes ago, Zanetti said:

Beuker to Ajax being reported as a done deal now according to a couple of Dutch pages on Twitter. I'd hoped there had been no more talk of it for a while because it fell through or was just nonsense! It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next if this is true.

Yeah, couple Dutch media outlets saying he has agreed terms with Ajax. Now negotiating his notice with QP.

[an86]

I wish Marijn Beuker well. Always came across well in his dealings with the supporters. Not a gig anyone could turn down. In terms of the youth setup, we won’t be able to judge the success of it for a few years and probably won’t be able to measure what impact he had. I do feel that it’s imperative that we have different people operating the first team level and youth levels, though. We look like a development team and need a couple of experienced heads in. You can still develop and promote young talent without it being so heavily weighted in that direction. 

The biggest mistake we could make is a quick appointment from within and go with “business as usual.” This is s perfect opportunity to pause and look at what is and isn’t working within the football structure. Indeed, it might be an ideal time for other big hitters within senior management at the club to seek new challenges as well. 
 

We desperately need a period of stability. We need to work out what we’re actually supposed to be as a football club, find some way of engaging positively and consistently with the people who care about the club, and also figure out what we’re doing long term. We don’t know where we’re going to be playing football in about nine months time. This needs a plan. We must stop throwing the road down in front of us while we’re trying to sprint down it. People are disillusioned and have been for some time and the club need to address why that is. 

[williebraveheart]

10 minutes ago, an86 said:

Indeed, it might be an ideal time for other big hitters within senior management at the club to seek new challenges as well. 

Subtle, but good point.

[EaglesandSpiders]

1 hour ago, Zanetti said:

Beuker to Ajax being reported as a done deal now according to a couple of Dutch pages on Twitter. I'd hoped there had been no more talk of it for a while because it fell through or was just nonsense! It'll certainly be interesting to see what happens next if this is true.

It was a done deal the moment his name left Van Gaal's lips. I wish him all the best and hope that the club is duly compensated. 

[Hampden Diehard]

It's obviously an incredible opportunity for Beuker but I'd be really disappointed if he left. He's moved over here with, you would think, a blank canvas to convert an amateur side into a decent first level outfit, with full control. How much is there still for him to try out? Does he feel that he's done enough to consider his time a success, or will the Ajax offer be all the reassurance he needs? Our lack of auld heid signings suggests that he has a strong regard for his plan. Will he be given such a platform at Ajax? I can't imagine that he'll have the same power.

It seems a done deal but I'm still hoping that he sticks with us. He's a young guy; if he makes QP a success story only using young players, it'll be a little short of a miracle and fair bumps up the value of his CV and future worth.

 

[Arachnophile]

2 hours ago, Hampden Diehard said:

It's obviously an incredible opportunity for Beuker but I'd be really disappointed if he left. He's moved over here with, you would think, a blank canvas to convert an amateur side into a decent first level outfit, with full control. How much is there still for him to try out? Does he feel that he's done enough to consider his time a success, or will the Ajax offer be all the reassurance he needs? Our lack of auld heid signings suggests that he has a strong regard for his plan. Will he be given such a platform at Ajax? I can't imagine that he'll have the same power.

It seems a done deal but I'm still hoping that he sticks with us. He's a young guy; if he makes QP a success story only using young players, it'll be a little short of a miracle and fair bumps up the value of his CV and future worth.

 

Who in their right mind would choose Amsterdam over the urbane and sophisticated South side of Glasgow?

[Bring Your Own Socks]

Does anyone know if Beuker actually put down roots in Glasgow? Such as a family home, have his wife and kids moved here? Does he even have a family? If not this Glasgow Experiment might just have been a bit of a sabbatical for him. Guys like van Gaal don’t wait for the phone to ring. How long has this whole Ajax regeneration being brewing?

Very disappointed. A ten year commitment and he walks away after less than two. The guy who was “ready to put a dent in the universe”. And all we have is a pile of ifs, buts and maybes and a financial burden of a structure well without our means. Not to mention a dysfunctional first team. Some seem emotionally attached because he’s a nice guy. To me, if he walks, he’s failed us massively.

Sharp reminder how fragile our club is.