Lowland League General Discussion

[newcastle broon]

27 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Not sure why yer asking me, I was in Lisbon and have no idea who played in that game.  Looks like the usual tired moans that hold no water though.

 

Yer usually an advocate for not much changes to the Hearts B team 11 every week. Looks like more than a few were made last week going by reports on here. 

[Burnieman]

24 minutes ago, newcastle broon said:

Yer usually an advocate for not much changes to the Hearts B team 11 every week. Looks like more than a few were made last week going by reports on here. 

Well if people were concerned they could have a look around the internetty and find out.  Calum Sandilands has a knee injury and presumably is out for a while.   James Wilson was in Spain with Scotland U19's by the looks of it.  Nae idea about Pollock or Tait.  I think there's also another 2 or 3 on long term injury list.

Looking at the line-up it was consistent with the Gretna one where they were pumped, but no complaints then and yes, Hearts are pretty consistent with their line-ups when everyone is available, amongst the most consistent in the league.

Edited September 12 by Burnieman

[Cowdenleith]

23 minutes ago, leaguereformer said:

I am talking about the same situation in WoS Beith never had entry license required for LL, in the LL very few have a bronze license required for SPFL. My point was the teams in the WoS who could achieve bronze the easiest and I said Talbot and Medda seem to be the most geared up should they wish to go for it. 

There are a number of teams in the LL who could get a bronze licence with a little effort, some have stated this publicly.  

Don’t think there is any real point in needing bronze while in the Lowland and the extra costs that entails (eg Doctor) for no obvious benefit.

[kevsmart]

3 hours ago, Cowdenleith said:

There are a number of teams in the LL who could get a bronze licence with a little effort, some have stated this publicly.  

Don’t think there is any real point in needing bronze while in the Lowland and the extra costs that entails (eg Doctor) for no obvious benefit.

Having a licence gets upi in to the Scottish Cup

[Burnieman]

6 minutes ago, kevsmart said:

Having a licence gets upi in to the Scottish Cup

An Entry level licence gets you SFA membership and therefore Scottish Cup entry. You don't need Bronze for that.

[parsforlife]

4 hours ago, Cowdenleith said:

There are a number of teams in the LL who could get a bronze licence with a little effort, some have stated this publicly.  

Don’t think there is any real point in needing bronze while in the Lowland and the extra costs that entails (eg Doctor) for no obvious benefit.

The is a very marginal higher payment from the SFA for having a better licence but that money would go quickly vs the higher costs. I think it's entirely sensible to have everything lined up and ready but not committing to the higher costs until needed.

[JCScouting]

1 minute ago, parsforlife said:

The is a very marginal higher payment from the SFA for having a better licence but that money would go quickly vs the higher costs. I think it's entirely sensible to have everything lined up and ready but not committing to the higher costs until needed.

Entry level (£4k payment), Bronze (£8k), Silver (£12k), Gold (£15k) or Platinum (£20k). This is from 2020 so guessing the payments have gone up a bit. Someone on here whos a club secretary etc might be able to give updated figures.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, JCScouting said:

Entry level (£4k payment), Bronze (£8k), Silver (£12k), Gold (£15k) or Platinum (£20k). This is from 2020 so guessing the payments have gone up a bit. Someone on here whos a club secretary etc might be able to give updated figures.

Those are the usual minimum's, but it some years they've paid as much as £12k to Entry. In recent years there have been a bonus payment on top as a result of Euro qualification and hence more money into SFA coffers.

[Burnieman]

1 hour ago, parsforlife said:

The is a very marginal higher payment from the SFA for having a better licence but that money would go quickly vs the higher costs. I think it's entirely sensible to have everything lined up and ready but not committing to the higher costs until needed.

That's the sensible way to approach it, do the easy/low cost stuff but stop short until it looks like you may have to go for it, which kinda demonstrates that it's not setting out to do what it should be doing if clubs deliberately hold back until absolutely neccesary.

[Burnieman]

3 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

Those are the usual minimum's, but it some years they've paid as much as £12k to Entry. In recent years there have been a bonus payment on top as a result of Euro qualification and hence more money into SFA coffers.

Our mad Dutch pal Marten seems to have taken a dislike to my posts and gone on a mad red dotting frenzy. Oddball.

[Marten]

Just now, Burnieman said:

Our mad Dutch pal Marten seems to have taken a dislike to my posts and gone on a mad red dotting frenzy. Oddball.

Only a response to your pathetic red dotting of 2 of my posts in this thread, so I'm getting you back. 

I never had any issues with you before but you asked for this. 

[Burnieman]

Just now, Marten said:

Only a response to your pathetic red dotting of 2 of my posts in this thread, so I'm getting you back. 

I never had any issues with you before but you asked for this. 

You're "getting me back" by red dotting posts that have nothing to do with B teams?  "you asked for this"  f*cking grow up son 

[Marten]

Just now, Burnieman said:

You're "getting me back" by red dotting posts that have nothing to do with B teams?  "you asked for this"  f*cking grow up son 

Well, you red dotted me for no reason so I'm doing it back to you, simple. 

[Burnieman]

Just now, Marten said:

Well, you red dotted me for no reason so I'm doing it back to you, simple. 

I red dotted your predictable rant about B teams amongst the other shite being posted, you red dotted me on SFA payments and Bronze licences.  As I said, grow up and disappear by to the Junior leagues  

[Marten]

Just now, Burnieman said:

I red dotted your predictable rant about B teams amongst the other shite being posted, you red dotted me on SFA payments and Bronze licences.  As I said, grow up and disappear by to the Junior leagues  

It's not a predictable rant, it's just my honest opinion. But you clearly can't stand people disagreeing with you.

 

I will always be against B-teams in first team competitions out of principle and I will never attend a game in a first team competition involving a B-team (not even against my own team, even if my own team are at home) because of that.

[Burnieman]

Just now, Marten said:

It's not a predictable rant, it's just my honest opinion. But you clearly can't stand people disagreeing with you.

I will always be against B-teams in first team competitions out of principle and I will never attend a game in a first team competition involving a B-team (not even against my own team, even if my own team are at home) because of that.

Good for you,  have a greenie 

[parsforlife]

22 minutes ago, Burnieman said:

That's the sensible way to approach it, do the easy/low cost stuff but stop short until it looks like you may have to go for it, which kinda demonstrates that it's not setting out to do what it should be doing if clubs deliberately hold back until absolutely neccesary.

Not sure I agree.  The system is set up so clubs should be aspirational off the pitch and that certain standards should be expected at particular levels of the game.  I think it's worked very well in that regard. Clubs preparing for the next level and still improving themselves if not doing enough for official sign off is also good. 

Not sure how you would want to change things to avoid that,  do we want 101 categories so clubs can be in very specific levels and we can see just how far everyone is of moving up a level?  Or do we distribute money in such a way that no club funds are used to level up?

[Burnieman]

22 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Not sure I agree.  The system is set up so clubs should be aspirational off the pitch and that certain standards should be expected at particular levels of the game.  I think it's worked very well in that regard. Clubs preparing for the next level and still improving themselves if not doing enough for official sign off is also good. 

Not sure how you would want to change things to avoid that,  do we want 101 categories so clubs can be in very specific levels and we can see just how far everyone is of moving up a level?  Or do we distribute money in such a way that no club funds are used to level up?

I think the licencing system needs reviewed, and I say that as someone who went through the process of obtaining one for a club as well as several annual audits.

Entry level is enough for tier 4 and below IMO and should never have been changed to Bronze for L2, do we really need to mandate for 500 covered spectators, or trained safety officers and club doctors etc for crowds that in many cases are not significantly more than HL/LL/EoS Premier/WoS Premier? IMO no. There needs to be a review after a decade of licencing and some common sense applied to where we are and what is realistically required at these levels.

For example, how often is a licenced safety officer or club doctor required at L2 level, versus lower levels where trained first aiders and physios are deemed sufficient, or the safety officer who has done a basic online course. Why do we need cover for 500 when crowds in L2 are 300-600 in the main?

The original purpose of licencing was "to improve the playing and spectating experience", but I'm not sure many who sit on the licencing sommittee have a grasp of watching football at that level to understand what is required and what isn't.

Bronze is more about being a convenient blocker for L2 than anything else really and so we have clubs who only go part way to achieving it and then hold back.  

 

Edited September 12 by Burnieman

[GordonS]

17 minutes ago, parsforlife said:

Not sure I agree.  The system is set up so clubs should be aspirational off the pitch and that certain standards should be expected at particular levels of the game.  I think it's worked very well in that regard. Clubs preparing for the next level and still improving themselves if not doing enough for official sign off is also good. 

Not sure how you would want to change things to avoid that,  do we want 101 categories so clubs can be in very specific levels and we can see just how far everyone is of moving up a level?  Or do we distribute money in such a way that no club funds are used to level up?

I agree with that, but not all of the additional things required for Bronze over Entry are worthwhile. If they were, ambitious clubs would be doing them regardless of licensing, they'd be doing them because they're good things. Having seats and plenty of cover is an obvious good thing and many Entry level clubs have them already. Stand-out in this regard is having a doctor; many clubs have highly qualified and experienced physios who are better at first aid than most doctors, and you can meet the requirement by employing a gynaecologist or a pathologist.

If the requirement was really an improvement to the health and welfare of players then more clubs would be doing it anyway, I think it the point.

[Burnieman]

3 minutes ago, GordonS said:

I agree with that, but not all of the additional things required for Bronze over Entry are worthwhile. If they were, ambitious clubs would be doing them regardless of licensing, they'd be doing them because they're good things. Having seats and plenty of cover is an obvious good thing and many Entry level clubs have them already. Stand-out in this regard is having a doctor; many clubs have highly qualified and experienced physios who are better at first aid than most doctors, and you can meet the requirement by employing a gynaecologist or a pathologist.

If the requirement was really an improvement to the health and welfare of players then more clubs would be doing it anyway, I think it the point.

Agree.  You won't get many clubs going for Bronze as it's a good positive thing to do, they'll only do it if they have to.

I don't think for example you'll ever see too many at tier 6 going for Bronze unless somehow it ever became a requirement of LL/HL entry.

It's that which shows that maybe the licence process needs overhauled.

Edited September 12 by Burnieman