The Queen of the South thread

[palmy_cammy]

I said somethig similar shortly after he returned and was shot down. As I've said previously, god help you if you have a slightly negative opinion of certain players.

1. I wouldn't take things said on here to heart, it's only the Internet.

2. I've heard nothing but criticism about Burns since his return.

[Homer Thompson]

Do you not think that his season away might have blurred your memory's of him?

Jeeesuus .. give it up. Burns was an outstanding player for us first time round. It didnt work out for him at Dunfermline, we get it. That sort of thing happens and doesnt turn him into a bad player overnight, no matter how much you'd like that to be true.

Your obsession with him is rather unsettling. Did he refuse to sign your man-boobs after a match or something?

Aside from his debut at Ayr and the Dundee United game (his introduction changed the game) he's been pish.

We need to play him on the right to get the best out of him I think. That would mean shifting Carmichael to the left wing. An option, but I don't think it's our best option.

I wouldnt go as far as to say he's been "pish", but I would agree he's been disappointing. I was one of those who disagreed with playing him on the right when he first came back. Partly because I thought he would fit well into the centre of midfield in the system we played, but also because at the time we had quality on both wings. I stand by that but, given the good form of Young, in particular, and McKenna and the indifferent form of Gibson and Orsi (who I dont think has done badly but has been too hit and miss) I would now like to see Burns play out wide. I actually wouldnt mind seeing Mitchell play right mid either, with McGuffie behind him. I think the two could play well together and McGuffie has to be the unluckiest player this season, to not have played more than he has.

While we're on the subject of lineups and formations, I hope we go back to the 4-4-2(ish) that took us the top of the league. I dont know if the change was because of Young and Holts suspensions or to accommodate Lyle, Reilly and Clark but it hasnt really worked, for me.

[palmy_cammy]

Jeeesuus .. give it up. Burns was an outstanding player for us first time round. It didnt work out for him at Dunfermline, we get it. That sort of thing happens and doesnt turn him into a bad player overnight, no matter how much you'd like that to be true.

Your obsession with him is rather unsettling. Did he refuse to sign your man-boobs after a match or something?

I wouldnt go as far as to say he's been "pish", but I would agree he's been disappointing. I was one of those who disagreed with playing him on the right when he first came back. Partly because I thought he would fit well into the centre of midfield in the system we played, but also because at the time we had quality on both wings. I stand by that but, given the good form of Young, in particular, and McKenna and the indifferent form of Gibson and Orsi (who I dont think has done badly but has been too hit and miss) I would now like to see Burns play out wide. I actually wouldnt mind seeing Mitchell play right mid either, with McGuffie behind him. I think the two could play well together and McGuffie has to be the unluckiest player this season, to not have played more than he has.

While we're on the subject of lineups and formations, I hope we go back to the 4-4-2(ish) that took us the top of the league. I dont know if the change was because of Young and Holts suspensions or to accommodate Lyle, Reilly and Clark but it hasnt really worked, for me.

I think it was due to suspensions and as you say I hope we return to 4-4-2. It's a good point about Mitchell and McGuffie, based on performances that would be a far more deserving change to the starting XI than switching Burns out wide. Gibson has barely done enough to deserve a spot on the bench to be honest, but being the potential game-changer he is should always at the very least be in the squad.

It's a "must try harder" on Burnsy's school report that's for sure.

Edited November 5, 2012 by palmy_cammy

[Distant Doonhamer]

Jeeesuus .. give it up. Burns was an outstanding player for us first time round. It didnt work out for him at Dunfermline, we get it. That sort of thing happens and doesnt turn him into a bad player overnight, no matter how much you'd like that to be true.

Your obsession with him is rather unsettling. Did he refuse to sign your man-boobs after a match or something?

[HoBNob]

Jeeesuus .. give it up. Burns was an outstanding player for us first time round. It didnt work out for him at Dunfermline, we get it. That sort of thing happens and doesnt turn him into a bad player overnight, no matter how much you'd like that to be true.

Your obsession with him is rather unsettling. Did he refuse to sign your man-boobs after a match or something?

Going by the fact you just put the word "Burns" and "Outstanding" in the same sentance I'm going to conclude you're on drugs. Either that or I'm correct in thinking that a season away has blurred you're memory of him. He's a bang average lower division player, not enough pace/trickery to play out wide, not enough football intelligence to play a creative midfield role, not enough defensive nouse to play a defensive role. His only asset is that he can run allot, as far as footballing ability goes though he's behind Stephen Simmons.

I would never ask Burns to sign my (non existant) moobs sadly. I'm just interested to see how he manages with second division football.

[QoSStewartry]

His only asset is that he can run allot, as far as footballing ability goes though he's behind Stephen Simmons.

Now that's just cruel

[happysouth]

Going by the fact you just put the word "Burns" and "Outstanding" in the same sentance I'm going to conclude you're on drugs. Either that or I'm correct in thinking that a season away has blurred you're memory of him. He's a bang average lower division player, not enough pace/trickery to play out wide, not enough football intelligence to play a creative midfield role, not enough defensive nouse to play a defensive role. His only asset is that he can run allot, as far as footballing ability goes though he's behind Stephen Simmons.

I would never ask Burns to sign my (non existant) moobs sadly. I'm just interested to see how he manages with second division football.

Drugs you say?

[Homer Thompson]

Now that's just cruel

Drugs you say?

I fear youre wasting your time. Using words of more than one syllable was your first mistake

Going by the fact you just put the word "Burns" and "Outstanding" in the same sentance I'm going to conclude you're on drugs. Either that or I'm correct in thinking that a season away has blurred you're memory of him. He's a bang average lower division player, not enough pace/trickery to play out wide, not enough football intelligence to play a creative midfield role, not enough defensive nouse to play a defensive role. His only asset is that he can run allot, as far as footballing ability goes though he's behind Stephen Simmons.

I would never ask Burns to sign my (non existant) moobs sadly. I'm just interested to see how he manages with second division football.

I could point out that Ive seen Burns play in over 200 games, you'll be lucky to have seen him play in 20. I could point to all the Queens fans who rated him when he was here and who were very pleased when he resigned. I could also point out that he has a Scottish Cup runners up medal and has played in Europe - feel free to point out any other "bang average lower divisions players" with either (John Stewart doesnt count). I could point out that your comparison with Simmons is possibly the most laughable thing Ive ever read.

I could point out all those things, but I wont. I will, however, point out that you're an idiot and/or in need of professional help for your obvious rejection issues.

[HoBNob]

Now that's just cruel

When he wanted to Stephen Simmons could be an very good player, happens rairly but when it does.

Mindfuck.

I fear youre wasting your time. Using words of more than one syllable was your first mistake

I could point out that Ive seen Burns play in over 200 games, you'll be lucky to have seen him play in 20. I could point to all the Queens fans who rated him when he was here and who were very pleased when he resigned. I could also point out that he has a Scottish Cup runners up medal and has played in Europe - feel free to point out any other "bang average lower divisions players" with either (John Stewart doesnt count). I could point out that your comparison with Simmons is possibly the most laughable thing Ive ever read.

I could point out all those things, but I wont. I will, however, point out that you're an idiot and/or in need of professional help for your obvious rejection issues.

Fucking hell, setttle yourself downAnd unless you a fucking idiot it's quite easy to figure out how good a player is in 20 games, if it takes you 200 games to realise how good a player is... well you're probably a failure at life. In the 20 games I saw, Burns wasn't quick, wasn't skillfull, did not have a defence splitting pass, was not a "hard man" and didn't have much in the way of footballing intelligence. Care to disagree with any of that? Going by the comments on here by Queens fans sinse he's resigned they aren't particularly glowing. And it's quite possible that because Burns came up through your youth system and is a "local lad" that Queens fans had some blue tinted specs on when they watched him.

Fact is you will struggle to find anyone outwith a Queens fan who doesn't view him as a thoroughly average sfl player.

Scott Morrison

Jamie McCunie

Scott Muirhead

Iain Williamson

Jim Hamilton

Phil McGuire

Tam Scobbie

Gavin Skelton

I reckon they all played in a Scottish cup final and in Europe, sure McGuffie did aswell? Simmons got a a runners up medal aswell I'm sure although he never actually played in the final, also played in Europe...

Darren Young has also played in a Scottish cup final as well as playing in Europe and is currently plying his trade in the 2nd, although it is worth noting he was infact a good player back in the day. You could also argue that a few members of the Queens squad were bang average sfl players aswel.

Playing in a Scottish cup final and in Europe does not make you a good player, it makes you a player in a good team.

[WILLIEA]

Think all Queens fans would agree that Burns was a very good player before he went to Dunfermline.

It also seems to be the consensus that he is not as good a player now.

Ergo. it could be argued that Dunfermline, for whatever reason was detrimental to his career!

I, and I am sure all Queens fans hope he recovers and gets back to his former self.

[Homer Thompson]

Fucking hell, setttle yourself downAnd unless you a fucking idiot it's quite easy to figure out how good a player is in 20 games, if it takes you 200 games to realise how good a player is... well you're probably a failure at life.

*sigh*

I never said you had to have watched 200 games, the point was that the more games you've seen the better placed you are to make a, reasoned, balanced judgement. A point pretty obvious to anyone who isnt ... well, you.

Whats that noise? Oh, yes, its my irony meter going off again.

In the 20 games I saw, Burns wasn't quick, wasn't skillfull, did not have a defence splitting pass, was not a "hard man" and didn't have much in the way of footballing intelligence. Care to disagree with any of that?

Yes.

Going by the comments on here by Queens fans sinse he's resigned they aren't particularly glowing. And it's quite possible that because Burns came up through your youth system and is a "local lad" that Queens fans had some blue tinted specs on when they watched him.

Burns was born in Cumnock and didnt sign for Queens until he was 16.

Fact is you will struggle to find anyone outwith a Queens fan who doesn't view him as a thoroughly average sfl player.

As evidence by the multitude of Dunfermline fans posting on here ... oh, no wait, its just you and your weird obsession. Burns was quite often praised by opposition fans in his first spell.

Scott Morrison

Jamie McCunie

Scott Muirhead

Iain Williamson

Jim Hamilton

Phil McGuire

Tam Scobbie

Gavin Skelton

I reckon they all played in a Scottish cup final and in Europe, sure McGuffie did aswell? Simmons got a a runners up medal aswell I'm sure although he never actually played in the final, also played in Europe...

Darren Young has also played in a Scottish cup final as well as playing in Europe and is currently plying his trade in the 2nd, although it is worth noting he was infact a good player back in the day. You could also argue that a few members of the Queens squad were bang average sfl players aswel.

Thats your list, is it? Those are the players you're using to back up your case that average players can play in a cup final, is it? Good grief

Playing in a Scottish cup final and in Europe does not make you a good player, it makes you a player in a good team.

Of course. I forgot that good teams are literally jam packed with "bang average" players who play 34 games and score 7 goals. Thats what makes them good teams right?

[Guest Flash]

I could also point out that he has a Scottish Cup runners up medal and has played in Europe - feel free to point out any other "bang average lower divisions players" with either

Ryan McCann, Jim Thomson and Andy Aitken.

FWIW I agree with you that Burns was good for us first time round. He may not be SPL standard and IMO his best position is wide right, but he was a decent First division level player.

However, the fact that he played in a Scottish Cup final doesn't prove anything one way or the other. Same as Chisholm being the manager of a team that reached the Cup final doesn't prove he was a good manager.

[Monkey Tennis]

Just saw the latest addition to the mural on Terregles Street - I was horrified.

The 'theme' if you like is Goalkeepers.

We have Roy Henderson, a goalkeeper who was linked with moves to big English clubs, was touted for a Scotland call-up and played for us 381 times in the immediate post-war era - the most successful in the club's history.

Alongside him is Allan Ball - a man who played for the team 819 times - a then British record, over a period spanning close to twenty years. He remains a prominent figure at the club and in the town.

We then have Andy Goram - Andy fucking Goram. Now even if we leave aside what an odious, bigoted shit of a man he's proven himself to be, his contribution to Queens is utterly insufficient to merit a place on the wall.

Lest we forget, he played for us 19 times. That's 800 fewer appearances than Ball managed and a twentieth of those mustered by his neighbour on the wall. The picture has him with the Challenge Cup, as if he was an even remotely significant figure in that triumph. The final was the only round he played in and he wasn't called upon to do anything of any note in the game. It's bad enough that the press focused on his 'contribution', but when we too do it as a club, we sell ourselves short.

My rant isn't just motivated by my loathing of the man (although the swearing might be). It's also motivated by the lack of self-confidence at the club that such depictions betray. We're a club in our own right, with our own history and our own significant figures in the story. Goram doesn't appear here for what he did at Queens - he appears because he'd found fame elsewhere.

I'm a fan of the murals as a celebration of all things Queens. Placing Goram alongside genuine Queens legends however, completely undermines the project.

[Katboy]

Agreed! I am sure we can all think of other goalkeepers who have made a more significant contribution to the club, and are much more deserving of a place on the wall.

[palmy_cammy]

I'm not a fan of the murals in the slightest, I found the Davie Rae one in particular rather cringeworthy. The Goram one is sure to trump that though.

[Monkey Tennis]

I'm not a fan of the murals in the slightest, I found the Davie Rae one in particular rather cringeworthy. The Goram one is sure to trump that though.

I wasn't daft on the Davie Rae one either, but it's undeniable that he was a visible and even important presence in that cup run. I can accept that there might be differences of opinion over who and what might feature. Some might question for instance the inclusion of John Stewart (another nasty wee bigot incidentally) given that he didn't play a great deal. It's undeniable however that he scored one of the biggest goals in our history and therefore deserves to appear. Goram has no such claim.

Does anyone know how the content of the pictures is chosen? is it down to the artist, or is it decided or at least ok'd by the board?

As I've said before, i like the idea of the murals. They're bright, well painted, near my house and offer a nice means of marking the club's history. The inclusion of Goram is enough to make me think twice though.

[Skyline Drifter]

Does anyone know how the content of the pictures is chosen? is it down to the artist, or is it decided or at least ok'd by the board?

Nothing to do with the club at all, though they gave permission for the murals to be placed there. The murals are commissioned by The People's Project. Don't know if Mark Jardine has any input or approval of designs though or if its just down to the artist.

On holiday at the moment so havent seen the new one. Wouldnt disagree with the sentiment per se though. Whilst MT and I have disagreed before on the subject of Goram's contribution to the club, he certainly never did enough to merit inclusion here. It also makes the thing a far more likely target for vandalism most likely.

[Par85]

The main difference for me between Simmons and Burns is that all the time Burns looked like he gave everything where as on a lot of occasions Simmons looked like he wanted to be somewhere else. I'd agree with Grant that Simmons probably had more skill and was a better player than Burns when he could be arsed but that rarely happened towards the end and I would prefer Burns everyday of the week.

[blazerman]

It was a pleasant surprise to see Warren Pearson back involved at Queens as a volunteer coach for the under 14's.My Lochar Thistle squad played them last night and hes a great guy to have developing these youngsters.

[WILLIEA]

Absolutely disgusted if Goram is on that mural.

Was a bit concerned that it might be vandalised.

Now am tempted to bring a spray can with me on my next visit

Only kidding, but wouldn't be too upset if some wee ned did!